Surgnbuck wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:56 am
He's hitting 90 HR's with 70 errors, 50 stolen bases, 150 RBI. I'm okay with that
Would you still be okay with it if he booted a routine ground ball, or made a poor throw, in a tied game with a runner on third in the bottom of the ninth of the seventh game of a playoff series? I know that's quite the exaggeration but my point is that steady, reliable defense, especially at shortstop, is always absolutely critical regardless of the offense created by that player. Preventing a run has the exact same value as producing a run.
If it got to that point, it was probably because he kept them in the game as it was in the first place. Just flipping the coin on you. In other words, sh*t happens. Think about Buckner and the Red Sox fans. Would they even have been in that position in the first place without him?
Let me ask you this: What if Cruz was what you described, not only a steady defender, but became gold glove caliber, and still made that error?
I'd be happy to take my chances with it.
My initial point was that I’m still not confident in his ability to play a consistently reliable game at shortstop. It’d be awesome if he reaches great offensive heights, but it won’t help if he gives more runs back on defense than is acceptable. His arm and his range suggest he can be exceptional at short, but he has to catch and throw routinely first.
If he can, and I’m all for giving him that chance all year long, then we have a very special player. If he can’t do it well enough, they’ll have to seriously think about moving him to first base, where we still have his offense but with the likelihood that he’s not going to be giving back an unacceptable amount of runs with below average defense at a position that’s less difficult to play.
Would you still be okay with it if he booted a routine ground ball, or made a poor throw, in a tied game with a runner on third in the bottom of the ninth of the seventh game of a playoff series? I know that's quite the exaggeration but my point is that steady, reliable defense, especially at shortstop, is always absolutely critical regardless of the offense created by that player. Preventing a run has the exact same value as producing a run.
If it got to that point, it was probably because he kept them in the game as it was in the first place. Just flipping the coin on you. In other words, sh*t happens. Think about Buckner and the Red Sox fans. Would they even have been in that position in the first place without him?
Let me ask you this: What if Cruz was what you described, not only a steady defender, but became gold glove caliber, and still made that error?
I'd be happy to take my chances with it.
My initial point was that I’m still not confident in his ability to play a consistently reliable game at shortstop. It’d be awesome if he reaches great offensive heights, but it won’t help if he gives more runs back on defense than is acceptable. His arm and his range suggest he can be exceptional at short, but he has to catch and throw routinely first.
If he can, and I’m all for giving him that chance all year long, then we have a very special player. If he can’t do it well enough, they’ll have to seriously think about moving him to first base, where we still have his offense but with the likelihood that he’s not going to be giving back an unacceptable amount of runs with below average defense at a position that’s less difficult to play.
What fun is that, though? There was nothing more breath taking then watching a Pedro Alvarez sail into the stands behind first base on a line, all the way from third.
Back to the original thread, sorry for hijacking....this is a great move, and I can't believe it comes on the cheap.
Now, back to the hijack......
I'm okay with a late inning defensive replacement for Cruz, however, Alika Williams is not that guy. I don't know how they all measure out, but I've seen nothing of Williams that makes me see him being exceptionally superior to Peguero or even Triolo at short.
If it got to that point, it was probably because he kept them in the game as it was in the first place. Just flipping the coin on you. In other words, sh*t happens. Think about Buckner and the Red Sox fans. Would they even have been in that position in the first place without him?
Let me ask you this: What if Cruz was what you described, not only a steady defender, but became gold glove caliber, and still made that error?
I'd be happy to take my chances with it.
My initial point was that I’m still not confident in his ability to play a consistently reliable game at shortstop. It’d be awesome if he reaches great offensive heights, but it won’t help if he gives more runs back on defense than is acceptable. His arm and his range suggest he can be exceptional at short, but he has to catch and throw routinely first.
If he can, and I’m all for giving him that chance all year long, then we have a very special player. If he can’t do it well enough, they’ll have to seriously think about moving him to first base, where we still have his offense but with the likelihood that he’s not going to be giving back an unacceptable amount of runs with below average defense at a position that’s less difficult to play.
What fun is that, though? There was nothing more breath taking then watching a Pedro Alvarez sail into the stands behind first base on a line, all the way from third.
They are in the entertainment business too.
Pedro and Oneil on the same side of the infield would be something to behold. Each ground ball on the left side would be cause for everyone to take both notice and cover.
Surgnbuck wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:34 am
Back to the original thread, sorry for hijacking....this is a great move, and I can't believe it comes on the cheap.
Now, back to the hijack......
I'm okay with a late inning defensive replacement for Cruz, however, Alika Williams is not that guy. I don't know how they all measure out, but I've seen nothing of Williams that makes me see him being exceptionally superior to Peguero or even Triolo at short.
Right. I'm sure Williams is a very nice young man but he just doesn't have enough to be a complete major league player.
Last night we found out that Michael A Taylor was placed on outright waivers, and I for one hope he gets claimed. I just looked at his splits and he only has 14 hits at PNC Park this year! I was shocked to see that stat. That is disgraceful.
fjk090852-7 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 5:21 pm
Last night we found out that Michael A Taylor was placed on outright waivers, and I for one hope he gets claimed. I just looked at his splits and he only has 14 hits at PNC Park this year! I was shocked to see that stat. That is disgraceful.
It was a very bad signing. The 2023 Pirates were one of MLB's worst hitting teams and Cherington signed a notorious good field/no hit OFer for the 2024 team. That was something this weak hitting team could not support.
I take back all the things you guys said about what a great signing on the cheap this was.
When Zangrilli mentioned this morning he had only 13 hits at home this season, I got to wondering if I could even recall being in attendance when he did get a hit.
I thought it was a good move because I thought they were going for a platoon in CF with Suwinski and him, and even though they were poor average wise, I was foreseeing getting 30-40 bombs from the CF position. That's a plus, even with a low batting average. But not sub .200, I felt if they both hit a lot of bombs and stayed .220 or so, that's a huge plus for a postion that is primarily defense first. Getting power and/or high OBP from that position is enormous.
Surgnbuck wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 9:22 pm
I take back all the things you guys said about what a great signing on the cheap this was.
When Zangrilli mentioned this morning he had only 13 hits at home this season, I got to wondering if I could even recall being in attendance when he did get a hit.
I thought it was a good move because I thought they were going for a platoon in CF with Suwinski and him, and even though they were poor average wise, I was foreseeing getting 30-40 bombs from the CF position. That's a plus, even with a low batting average. But not sub .200, I felt if they both hit a lot of bombs and stayed .220 or so, that's a huge plus for a postion that is primarily defense first. Getting power and/or high OBP from that position is enormous.
You make a good point. Taylor hit over 20 homers last season, and why couldn’t someone assume he would hit at least 15 to 18 this season. I for one didn’t think Suwinski would flame out like he did this year. 35 homers or better would be a safe bet between the 2 players, but it didn’t happen.
Surgnbuck wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 9:22 pm
I take back all the things you guys said about what a great signing on the cheap this was.
When Zangrilli mentioned this morning he had only 13 hits at home this season, I got to wondering if I could even recall being in attendance when he did get a hit.
I thought it was a good move because I thought they were going for a platoon in CF with Suwinski and him, and even though they were poor average wise, I was foreseeing getting 30-40 bombs from the CF position. That's a plus, even with a low batting average. But not sub .200, I felt if they both hit a lot of bombs and stayed .220 or so, that's a huge plus for a postion that is primarily defense first. Getting power and/or high OBP from that position is enormous.
You make a good point. Taylor hit over 20 homers last season, and why couldn’t someone assume he would hit at least 15 to 18 this season. I for one didn’t think Suwinski would flame out like he did this year. 35 homers or better would be a safe bet between the 2 players, but it didn’t happen.
Taylor's 21 HRs in 2023 were a career high but uncharacteristic of his ability. Thru 2022 he had averaged a HR every 35 ABs. But in 2023 he averaged a HR every 17 ABs. In 11 years, he's been in double digits just 4 times. In 2018 he had about the same number of ABs as last year but hit just 6 HRs. I think Cherington expected power from Taylor based on his outlier season last year. Just another bad decision by the smartest GM in the room.
