Phil Gosselin
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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CarolinaBucco
Phil Gosselin
My problem isn't specifically with this trade (you're right, it's most insignificant), it's more the overall frustration building over the fact that a team that finished under .500 and 25 games out of 1st has essentially done NOTHING of significance in an effort to change or improve itself. I can't believe the Pirates are content and willing to go into the season with basically the same roster as last year (minus all of the power on the bench, of course).
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Bobster21
Phil Gosselin
547665787B7E79765562747478170 wrote: My problem isn't specifically with this trade (you're right, it's most insignificant), it's more the overall frustration building over the fact that a team that finished under .500 and 25 games out of 1st has essentially done NOTHING of significance in an effort to change or improve itself. I can't believe the Pirates are content and willing to go into the season with basically the same roster as last year (minus all of the power on the bench, of course).
Yes, but we see consistently that this is how they operate. There aren't going to be any big moves. Holes will always be filled by prospects, reclamation projects or 2nd or 3rd tier FAs. Fans will always get their hopes up when they hear the Pirates are interested in a good player but that player will always wind up going somewhere else. Since they won't make any significant increase to their payroll, they rely on low salaried prospects to keep the payroll low. So they won't trade the prospects unless it's to shed someone else's salary (Liriano) which again keeps the payroll low. They are committed to doing the best they can on a low payroll. As a fan, I just accept that that's how it is and hope for the best.
Yes, but we see consistently that this is how they operate. There aren't going to be any big moves. Holes will always be filled by prospects, reclamation projects or 2nd or 3rd tier FAs. Fans will always get their hopes up when they hear the Pirates are interested in a good player but that player will always wind up going somewhere else. Since they won't make any significant increase to their payroll, they rely on low salaried prospects to keep the payroll low. So they won't trade the prospects unless it's to shed someone else's salary (Liriano) which again keeps the payroll low. They are committed to doing the best they can on a low payroll. As a fan, I just accept that that's how it is and hope for the best.
Phil Gosselin
7E5C4F525154535C7F485E5E523D0 wrote: My problem isn't specifically with this trade (you're right, it's most insignificant), it's more the overall frustration building over the fact that a team that finished under .500 and 25 games out of 1st has essentially done NOTHING of significance in an effort to change or improve itself. I can't believe the Pirates are content and willing to go into the season with basically the same roster as last year (minus all of the power on the bench, of course).
I get what you're saying, and to an extent, I agree. For instance, I want, and I think we need, one more starting pitcher, and maybe another back-end reliever. But, with the everyday lineup, who exactly would you like to see replaced?
C--Cervelli--had an injury plagued year. Lots of reason to think he bounces back
1B--Bell--time to sink or swim. If we had brought in some vet FA, people would be complaining that we are blocking one of our top prospects
2B--Harrison--had a down year last year. I wouldn't mind moving on from Harrison, actually. I think he's a fan favorite, and I like him as a ballplayer. I think he brings a lot to the table, but I think Frazier can offer comparable production at a fraction of the cost.
SS--Mercer--honestly, he's about the only one of our regulars that played up to my expectations last year. With Newman on the way soon, I think his time in Pittsburgh is limited. But, not sure who we could reasonably acquire that would be an upgrade.
3B--Kang--if he could pull his head out of his arse, he could be a heck of a player. we'll see what discipline he'll face.
LF--Polanco--sort of had a coming out party last year. I expect him to have a big year.
CF--Marte--I also expect a big year out of Marte. In particular, I look for him to hit with more power this year. Plus, he's a major defensive upgrade over McCutchen.
RF--McCutchen--had the worst year of an otherwise stellar career. Is there a high degree of likelihood that the former MVP and a 5-time All Star bounces back and puts up an OPS north of .800 again? I'd say there is.
In the rotation, I think we have made some changes. Consider our rotation from opening day last year:
Cole
Liriano
Niese
Nicasio
Locke
The bottom four guys are gone. (Now, granted, I wish we hadn't given up on Liriano. I hated that trade the day it went down and I still hate it today. I would LOVE to pencil him in as our #4 or 5 starter.) This year, we're going with a rotation of the following:
Cole
Taillon
Nova
Kuhl
???
Again, I think we need another starter. I'm fine with Kuhl slotting in as our #5, but not as a #4. Here's what I mean by that. If there are 150 starting pitchers in MLB (30 teams x 5 starters/team), I'm comfortable saying that Chad Kuhl is somewhere between #121-150. I'm not comfortable saying he's somewhere between #91-120. So, in other words, yes, we need another starter. Liriano???
Anyway, I digress...my point is this: we didn't need any major overhauls on the lineup. We had a roster full of guys who underperformed last year, in some cases drastically. If they revert to their expectations, that almost by itself keeps us in the WC race.
The rotation SHOULD be better with a full year of Taillon and (hopefully) a full year of a healthy Cole who isn't worried about $30,000 or whatever it was). Add in a full year of Nova, I think you've got something.
As I said, I'd like another piece in the bullpen, because I don't trust Watson closing games. I think he's an elite setup guy, but some guys just can't make that transition. It wouldn't surprise me if Rivero is the closer by July. However, I do like the addition of Hudson.
Of...that's enough for now.
I get what you're saying, and to an extent, I agree. For instance, I want, and I think we need, one more starting pitcher, and maybe another back-end reliever. But, with the everyday lineup, who exactly would you like to see replaced?
C--Cervelli--had an injury plagued year. Lots of reason to think he bounces back
1B--Bell--time to sink or swim. If we had brought in some vet FA, people would be complaining that we are blocking one of our top prospects
2B--Harrison--had a down year last year. I wouldn't mind moving on from Harrison, actually. I think he's a fan favorite, and I like him as a ballplayer. I think he brings a lot to the table, but I think Frazier can offer comparable production at a fraction of the cost.
SS--Mercer--honestly, he's about the only one of our regulars that played up to my expectations last year. With Newman on the way soon, I think his time in Pittsburgh is limited. But, not sure who we could reasonably acquire that would be an upgrade.
3B--Kang--if he could pull his head out of his arse, he could be a heck of a player. we'll see what discipline he'll face.
LF--Polanco--sort of had a coming out party last year. I expect him to have a big year.
CF--Marte--I also expect a big year out of Marte. In particular, I look for him to hit with more power this year. Plus, he's a major defensive upgrade over McCutchen.
RF--McCutchen--had the worst year of an otherwise stellar career. Is there a high degree of likelihood that the former MVP and a 5-time All Star bounces back and puts up an OPS north of .800 again? I'd say there is.
In the rotation, I think we have made some changes. Consider our rotation from opening day last year:
Cole
Liriano
Niese
Nicasio
Locke
The bottom four guys are gone. (Now, granted, I wish we hadn't given up on Liriano. I hated that trade the day it went down and I still hate it today. I would LOVE to pencil him in as our #4 or 5 starter.) This year, we're going with a rotation of the following:
Cole
Taillon
Nova
Kuhl
???
Again, I think we need another starter. I'm fine with Kuhl slotting in as our #5, but not as a #4. Here's what I mean by that. If there are 150 starting pitchers in MLB (30 teams x 5 starters/team), I'm comfortable saying that Chad Kuhl is somewhere between #121-150. I'm not comfortable saying he's somewhere between #91-120. So, in other words, yes, we need another starter. Liriano???
Anyway, I digress...my point is this: we didn't need any major overhauls on the lineup. We had a roster full of guys who underperformed last year, in some cases drastically. If they revert to their expectations, that almost by itself keeps us in the WC race.
The rotation SHOULD be better with a full year of Taillon and (hopefully) a full year of a healthy Cole who isn't worried about $30,000 or whatever it was). Add in a full year of Nova, I think you've got something.
As I said, I'd like another piece in the bullpen, because I don't trust Watson closing games. I think he's an elite setup guy, but some guys just can't make that transition. It wouldn't surprise me if Rivero is the closer by July. However, I do like the addition of Hudson.
Of...that's enough for now.
Phil Gosselin
797172455376515E300 wrote: My problem isn't specifically with this trade (you're right, it's most insignificant), it's more the overall frustration building over the fact that a team that finished under .500 and 25 games out of 1st has essentially done NOTHING of significance in an effort to change or improve itself. I can't believe the Pirates are content and willing to go into the season with basically the same roster as last year (minus all of the power on the bench, of course).
I get what you're saying, and to an extent, I agree. For instance, I want, and I think we need, one more starting pitcher, and maybe another back-end reliever. But, with the everyday lineup, who exactly would you like to see replaced?
C--Cervelli--had an injury plagued year. Lots of reason to think he bounces back
1B--Bell--time to sink or swim. If we had brought in some vet FA, people would be complaining that we are blocking one of our top prospects
2B--Harrison--had a down year last year. I wouldn't mind moving on from Harrison, actually. I think he's a fan favorite, and I like him as a ballplayer. I think he brings a lot to the table, but I think Frazier can offer comparable production at a fraction of the cost.
SS--Mercer--honestly, he's about the only one of our regulars that played up to my expectations last year. With Newman on the way soon, I think his time in Pittsburgh is limited. But, not sure who we could reasonably acquire that would be an upgrade.
3B--Kang--if he could pull his head out of his arse, he could be a heck of a player. we'll see what discipline he'll face.
LF--Polanco--sort of had a coming out party last year. I expect him to have a big year.
CF--Marte--I also expect a big year out of Marte. In particular, I look for him to hit with more power this year. Plus, he's a major defensive upgrade over McCutchen.
RF--McCutchen--had the worst year of an otherwise stellar career. Is there a high degree of likelihood that the former MVP and a 5-time All Star bounces back and puts up an OPS north of .800 again? I'd say there is.
In the rotation, I think we have made some changes. Consider our rotation from opening day last year:
Cole
Liriano
Niese
Nicasio
Locke
The bottom four guys are gone. (Now, granted, I wish we hadn't given up on Liriano. I hated that trade the day it went down and I still hate it today. I would LOVE to pencil him in as our #4 or 5 starter.) This year, we're going with a rotation of the following:
Cole
Taillon
Nova
Kuhl
???
Again, I think we need another starter. I'm fine with Kuhl slotting in as our #5, but not as a #4. Here's what I mean by that. If there are 150 starting pitchers in MLB (30 teams x 5 starters/team), I'm comfortable saying that Chad Kuhl is somewhere between #121-150. I'm not comfortable saying he's somewhere between #91-120. So, in other words, yes, we need another starter. Liriano???
Anyway, I digress...my point is this: we didn't need any major overhauls on the lineup. We had a roster full of guys who underperformed last year, in some cases drastically. If they revert to their expectations, that almost by itself keeps us in the WC race.
The rotation SHOULD be better with a full year of Taillon and (hopefully) a full year of a healthy Cole who isn't worried about $30,000 or whatever it was). Add in a full year of Nova, I think you've got something.
As I said, I'd like another piece in the bullpen, because I don't trust Watson closing games. I think he's an elite setup guy, but some guys just can't make that transition. It wouldn't surprise me if Rivero is the closer by July. However, I do like the addition of Hudson.
Of...that's enough for now.
That's just it. We still need a starter for the rotation. Once again another thread changes to the topic of our rotation. The lineup is fine. I just for the life of me can't understand why when can't get at least a middle of the road veteran to slot in the 4 spot. I wanted Quintana but that was never going to happen. I would've been very happy with Hammel but he got 2 years, we weren't doing that either. I guess we've learned nothing from last year?
I get what you're saying, and to an extent, I agree. For instance, I want, and I think we need, one more starting pitcher, and maybe another back-end reliever. But, with the everyday lineup, who exactly would you like to see replaced?
C--Cervelli--had an injury plagued year. Lots of reason to think he bounces back
1B--Bell--time to sink or swim. If we had brought in some vet FA, people would be complaining that we are blocking one of our top prospects
2B--Harrison--had a down year last year. I wouldn't mind moving on from Harrison, actually. I think he's a fan favorite, and I like him as a ballplayer. I think he brings a lot to the table, but I think Frazier can offer comparable production at a fraction of the cost.
SS--Mercer--honestly, he's about the only one of our regulars that played up to my expectations last year. With Newman on the way soon, I think his time in Pittsburgh is limited. But, not sure who we could reasonably acquire that would be an upgrade.
3B--Kang--if he could pull his head out of his arse, he could be a heck of a player. we'll see what discipline he'll face.
LF--Polanco--sort of had a coming out party last year. I expect him to have a big year.
CF--Marte--I also expect a big year out of Marte. In particular, I look for him to hit with more power this year. Plus, he's a major defensive upgrade over McCutchen.
RF--McCutchen--had the worst year of an otherwise stellar career. Is there a high degree of likelihood that the former MVP and a 5-time All Star bounces back and puts up an OPS north of .800 again? I'd say there is.
In the rotation, I think we have made some changes. Consider our rotation from opening day last year:
Cole
Liriano
Niese
Nicasio
Locke
The bottom four guys are gone. (Now, granted, I wish we hadn't given up on Liriano. I hated that trade the day it went down and I still hate it today. I would LOVE to pencil him in as our #4 or 5 starter.) This year, we're going with a rotation of the following:
Cole
Taillon
Nova
Kuhl
???
Again, I think we need another starter. I'm fine with Kuhl slotting in as our #5, but not as a #4. Here's what I mean by that. If there are 150 starting pitchers in MLB (30 teams x 5 starters/team), I'm comfortable saying that Chad Kuhl is somewhere between #121-150. I'm not comfortable saying he's somewhere between #91-120. So, in other words, yes, we need another starter. Liriano???
Anyway, I digress...my point is this: we didn't need any major overhauls on the lineup. We had a roster full of guys who underperformed last year, in some cases drastically. If they revert to their expectations, that almost by itself keeps us in the WC race.
The rotation SHOULD be better with a full year of Taillon and (hopefully) a full year of a healthy Cole who isn't worried about $30,000 or whatever it was). Add in a full year of Nova, I think you've got something.
As I said, I'd like another piece in the bullpen, because I don't trust Watson closing games. I think he's an elite setup guy, but some guys just can't make that transition. It wouldn't surprise me if Rivero is the closer by July. However, I do like the addition of Hudson.
Of...that's enough for now.
That's just it. We still need a starter for the rotation. Once again another thread changes to the topic of our rotation. The lineup is fine. I just for the life of me can't understand why when can't get at least a middle of the road veteran to slot in the 4 spot. I wanted Quintana but that was never going to happen. I would've been very happy with Hammel but he got 2 years, we weren't doing that either. I guess we've learned nothing from last year?
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Phil Gosselin
153724393A3F38371423353539560 wrote: My problem isn't specifically with this trade (you're right, it's most insignificant), it's more the overall frustration building over the fact that a team that finished under .500 and 25 games out of 1st has essentially done NOTHING of significance in an effort to change or improve itself. I can't believe the Pirates are content and willing to go into the season with basically the same roster as last year (minus all of the power on the bench, of course).
Four starters are different. That alone is a huge change.
Four starters are different. That alone is a huge change.
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SteadyFreddy
Phil Gosselin
I think they brought Gosselin in to replace a guy like SRod as the super utility guy which I am fine with. This bench right now is Freese,Jaso, Frazier, Stewart,and Gosselin which is not great but not terrible either.
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UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
Phil Gosselin
617C585A54310 wrote: I do not get the vitriol from the early posts in this thread. This seems like a pretty minor move from both sides. Duncan is a whole lot of second tier SP depth. He has only had one really good season in the minors. Plus, reports are that he doesn't have real dominant stuff. He wasn't a game changer or probably going to play for the Pirates unless a lot of bad stuff happened.
Gosselin isn't any all star. No one think he is. He may not even make the team. But they need some depth. Especially if Kang gets in trouble to the extent that he misses time. They can't afford to be relying on only Jaso and Hanson. This is simply another option...that they may not use. No big deal.
The natives are restless. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we did little last year and then the moves have been small again. It's obvious that the Brass are expecting bounce back years from many players.
But to your point, from what I've read Duncan has great control with several pitches -- but couldn't break a pane of glass with his fastball. I'm not sure what all the fervor is about either, especially given he fact that Kang has got himself in so much trouble and might not begin the season with us. With so much unknown about him, we needed depth. Sure glad they signed Freese!
Gosselin isn't any all star. No one think he is. He may not even make the team. But they need some depth. Especially if Kang gets in trouble to the extent that he misses time. They can't afford to be relying on only Jaso and Hanson. This is simply another option...that they may not use. No big deal.
The natives are restless. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we did little last year and then the moves have been small again. It's obvious that the Brass are expecting bounce back years from many players.
But to your point, from what I've read Duncan has great control with several pitches -- but couldn't break a pane of glass with his fastball. I'm not sure what all the fervor is about either, especially given he fact that Kang has got himself in so much trouble and might not begin the season with us. With so much unknown about him, we needed depth. Sure glad they signed Freese!