252C24353B410 wrote: It's sad to see them mortgage the future like that. With that payroll, it's obvious they're doomed for the next 4-5 seasons.
Yup. They're obviously trying way too hard to win. ;D
Lol it's a shame! Stop trying so hard KC! Just throwing money at half rate free agent pitchers is no off season strategy. What about 2020? Did they ever think about that?
They will be done after this year. I think they have six free agents among position players and two starting pitchers. The rebuilding process will probably happen.
But good for them for winning it all. I would take what they are doing in a heartbeat with a World Series victory in the middle.
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
5C575F5356574C090F784159505757165B57380 wrote: It's sad to see them mortgage the future like that. With that payroll, it's obvious they're doomed for the next 4-5 seasons.
Yup. They're obviously trying way too hard to win. ;D
Lol it's a shame! Stop trying so hard KC! Just throwing money at half rate free agent pitchers is no off season strategy. What about 2020? Did they ever think about that?
They will be done after this year. I think they have six free agents among position players and two starting pitchers. The rebuilding process will probably happen.
But good for them for winning it all. I would take what they are doing in a heartbeat with a World Series victory in the middle.
This is exactly true. This was their last year to have a shot. And, to be honest, it was a long shot anyway because their rotation was suspect with Ventura. Ventura being an ace was their only shot at being successful this year. Travis Wood and Jason Hammels aren't going to do it for them. I feel bad. Though, to their credit, they are doing the best they can by adding some middling arms and giving their potent offense one last hurrah.
But there is a big difference between the AL central and the NL central. I think we'd be favorite to win the division if we were in the AL Central. Cleveland may have a better rotation, but our offense is far better. If the Royals were in our division, I wonder if they would have blown things up to replenish the farm after Ventura died. They wouldn't have a shot in our division even with these FA signings.
Yup. They're obviously trying way too hard to win. ;D
Lol it's a shame! Stop trying so hard KC! Just throwing money at half rate free agent pitchers is no off season strategy. What about 2020? Did they ever think about that?
They will be done after this year. I think they have six free agents among position players and two starting pitchers. The rebuilding process will probably happen.
But good for them for winning it all. I would take what they are doing in a heartbeat with a World Series victory in the middle.
This is exactly true. This was their last year to have a shot. And, to be honest, it was a long shot anyway because their rotation was suspect with Ventura. Ventura being an ace was their only shot at being successful this year. Travis Wood and Jason Hammels aren't going to do it for them. I feel bad. Though, to their credit, they are doing the best they can by adding some middling arms and giving their potent offense one last hurrah.
But there is a big difference between the AL central and the NL central. I think we'd be favorite to win the division if we were in the AL Central. Cleveland may have a better rotation, but our offense is far better. If the Royals were in our division, I wonder if they would have blown things up to replenish the farm after Ventura died. They wouldn't have a shot in our division even with these FA signings.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
65785C5E50350 wrote: It's sad to see them mortgage the future like that. With that payroll, it's obvious they're doomed for the next 4-5 seasons.
Yup. They're obviously trying way too hard to win. ;D
Lol it's a shame! Stop trying so hard KC! Just throwing money at half rate free agent pitchers is no off season strategy. What about 2020? Did they ever think about that?
They will be done after this year. I think they have six free agents among position players and two starting pitchers. The rebuilding process will probably happen.
But good for them for winning it all. I would take what they are doing in a heartbeat with a World Series victory in the middle.
This is exactly true. This was their last year to have a shot. And, to be honest, it was a long shot anyway because their rotation was suspect with Ventura. Ventura being an ace was their only shot at being successful this year. Travis Wood and Jason Hammels aren't going to do it for them. I feel bad. Though, to their credit, they are doing the best they can by adding some middling arms and giving their potent offense one last hurrah.
But there is a big difference between the AL central and the NL central. I think we'd be favorite to win the division if we were in the AL Central. Cleveland may have a better rotation, but our offense is far better. If the Royals were in our division, I wonder if they would have blown things up to replenish the farm after Ventura died. They wouldn't have a shot in our division even with these FA signings.
Very fair point about the impact of the respective divisions. But the reality is the Pirates managed the team the same way five years ago, and four, etc when the Cubs were no where to be found. The Cardinals were there, but the Pirates were right with them. I'll always believe one more high end pitcher away from a potential WS.
Maybe one more player doesn't make a difference this year, but the shame is that maybe one more would have and maybe would now. Watching KC, it is almost impossible to believe the Pirates could not be spending another $15M+ on payroll without mortgaging the future.
From a baseball standpoint I'm thinking only two things: how can this very good team squeeze in another couple wins and what does this team need to win a wildcard game? For both questions I come back to a high end pitcher, someone that can add to the Cole/Tallion tandem. Suppose Nova was a #4? That would be a line up that may give the Cubs a run, and would certainly be a very good WC team.
Maybe the FA mkt is poor this year. Then that just adds to the weight of the failed off-season last winter when a FA could have been added.
I don't agree with an approach that says "we probably have enough options". 29 other ML teams play by a different approach: "how can we make this the best team we can field?".
Honestly, there is only one possible reason for the Pirates approach: they would rather not spend the money necessary and available to better ensure the success of the team. It's not going to be easy to beat the Cubs, but I hate not really trying when there is a club house that probably believes they can.
Yup. They're obviously trying way too hard to win. ;D
Lol it's a shame! Stop trying so hard KC! Just throwing money at half rate free agent pitchers is no off season strategy. What about 2020? Did they ever think about that?
They will be done after this year. I think they have six free agents among position players and two starting pitchers. The rebuilding process will probably happen.
But good for them for winning it all. I would take what they are doing in a heartbeat with a World Series victory in the middle.
This is exactly true. This was their last year to have a shot. And, to be honest, it was a long shot anyway because their rotation was suspect with Ventura. Ventura being an ace was their only shot at being successful this year. Travis Wood and Jason Hammels aren't going to do it for them. I feel bad. Though, to their credit, they are doing the best they can by adding some middling arms and giving their potent offense one last hurrah.
But there is a big difference between the AL central and the NL central. I think we'd be favorite to win the division if we were in the AL Central. Cleveland may have a better rotation, but our offense is far better. If the Royals were in our division, I wonder if they would have blown things up to replenish the farm after Ventura died. They wouldn't have a shot in our division even with these FA signings.
Very fair point about the impact of the respective divisions. But the reality is the Pirates managed the team the same way five years ago, and four, etc when the Cubs were no where to be found. The Cardinals were there, but the Pirates were right with them. I'll always believe one more high end pitcher away from a potential WS.
Maybe one more player doesn't make a difference this year, but the shame is that maybe one more would have and maybe would now. Watching KC, it is almost impossible to believe the Pirates could not be spending another $15M+ on payroll without mortgaging the future.
From a baseball standpoint I'm thinking only two things: how can this very good team squeeze in another couple wins and what does this team need to win a wildcard game? For both questions I come back to a high end pitcher, someone that can add to the Cole/Tallion tandem. Suppose Nova was a #4? That would be a line up that may give the Cubs a run, and would certainly be a very good WC team.
Maybe the FA mkt is poor this year. Then that just adds to the weight of the failed off-season last winter when a FA could have been added.
I don't agree with an approach that says "we probably have enough options". 29 other ML teams play by a different approach: "how can we make this the best team we can field?".
Honestly, there is only one possible reason for the Pirates approach: they would rather not spend the money necessary and available to better ensure the success of the team. It's not going to be easy to beat the Cubs, but I hate not really trying when there is a club house that probably believes they can.
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Bobster21
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
7E796F67697E39354C6B616D6560226F63610C0 wrote:
Maybe the FA mkt is poor this year. Then that just adds to the weight of the failed off-season last winter when a FA could have been added.
I don't agree with an approach that says "we probably have enough options". 29 other ML teams play by a different approach: "how can we make this the best team we can field?".
Honestly, there is only one possible reason for the Pirates approach: they would rather not spend the money necessary and available to better ensure the success of the team. It's not going to be easy to beat the Cubs, but I hate not really trying when there is a club house that probably believes they can.
Even the average fans can find out who will be in the FA class one year ahead of time. So I'm sure the Pirates were aware in the winter of 2015 just who the FA pitchers would be in the winter of 2016. So their inactivity last off season was just another example (how many more do we really need?) of their policy against spending. They made no effort to improve the rotation for 2016 knowing options would be worse in 2017. I'm sure they were salivating at the idea of at least 3 (and possibly 4 if Nova hadn't signed) minimum salaried young starters for 2017.
Maybe the FA mkt is poor this year. Then that just adds to the weight of the failed off-season last winter when a FA could have been added.
I don't agree with an approach that says "we probably have enough options". 29 other ML teams play by a different approach: "how can we make this the best team we can field?".
Honestly, there is only one possible reason for the Pirates approach: they would rather not spend the money necessary and available to better ensure the success of the team. It's not going to be easy to beat the Cubs, but I hate not really trying when there is a club house that probably believes they can.
Even the average fans can find out who will be in the FA class one year ahead of time. So I'm sure the Pirates were aware in the winter of 2015 just who the FA pitchers would be in the winter of 2016. So their inactivity last off season was just another example (how many more do we really need?) of their policy against spending. They made no effort to improve the rotation for 2016 knowing options would be worse in 2017. I'm sure they were salivating at the idea of at least 3 (and possibly 4 if Nova hadn't signed) minimum salaried young starters for 2017.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
Back to the Royals, would people be happy with these moves if they didn't already win a World Series?
According to MLB.com, they don't have one prospect in the Top 100. Sure, they graduated a ton that won it all. But what if they didn't win a World Series?
They are in a different position than the Pirates. I could deal with a rebuilding if my team already won it all. I would be very disappointed with a rebuilding with nothing to show for it (how many times have we seen the Pirates do that?).
According to MLB.com, they don't have one prospect in the Top 100. Sure, they graduated a ton that won it all. But what if they didn't win a World Series?
They are in a different position than the Pirates. I could deal with a rebuilding if my team already won it all. I would be very disappointed with a rebuilding with nothing to show for it (how many times have we seen the Pirates do that?).
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
Those who think the Royals spending for payroll at $145M is excessive or counterproductive have a point, but not to the extent that increasing payroll spending can't be done with savvy and a reasonable expenditure. I suggest that the Pirates are not in a position right now to make that happen because the FA cupboard is bare. But it was a most egregious error on the Pirates F.O. for not acting when the time was right.
Consider that if the Pirates had signed David Price after the 2015 season to the same contract that the Red Sox did the Pirates current payroll entering Spring Training of 2017 would be $119M. And of course signing a free agent means not having to give up any assets (see Quintana and Sale).
How would a rotation of Price, Cole, Taillon, Nova and Kuhl look right now? Might even put a dirty little wrinkle in Joe Madden's Fruit Of The Looms. And if anyone thinks that going forward with Price's contract would cripple the Pirates just consider that almost certainly by 2018 Cutch's salary will be off the books so the $119M payroll won't be increasing much and might actually decrease with young cheap players such as Bell, Meadows, Glasnow, etc. taking over roster spots.
Consider that if the Pirates had signed David Price after the 2015 season to the same contract that the Red Sox did the Pirates current payroll entering Spring Training of 2017 would be $119M. And of course signing a free agent means not having to give up any assets (see Quintana and Sale).
How would a rotation of Price, Cole, Taillon, Nova and Kuhl look right now? Might even put a dirty little wrinkle in Joe Madden's Fruit Of The Looms. And if anyone thinks that going forward with Price's contract would cripple the Pirates just consider that almost certainly by 2018 Cutch's salary will be off the books so the $119M payroll won't be increasing much and might actually decrease with young cheap players such as Bell, Meadows, Glasnow, etc. taking over roster spots.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
575C54585D5C470204734A525B5C5C1D505C330 wrote: Back to the Royals, would people be happy with these moves if they didn't already win a World Series?
According to MLB.com, they don't have one prospect in the Top 100. Sure, they graduated a ton that won it all. But what if they didn't win a World Series?
They are in a different position than the Pirates. I could deal with a rebuilding if my team already won it all. I would be very disappointed with a rebuilding with nothing to show for it (how many times have we seen the Pirates do that?).
Dog, I've not seen one person on here suggest that the Pirates push all their chips into the center of the table. There aren't just two ways, the Pirates or the Royals way, to play the game.
All myself and a number of others are saying is "WOW, KC has blown the Pirates story about available money, the Pirates could indeed invest another $15/20M to try for a WS without hurting the future in any way."
This is not a choice about the future of the Pirates verses the present, it's unfortunately a choice between spending available money on the Pirates or pocket that money for whatever other use Mr Nutting decides.
According to MLB.com, they don't have one prospect in the Top 100. Sure, they graduated a ton that won it all. But what if they didn't win a World Series?
They are in a different position than the Pirates. I could deal with a rebuilding if my team already won it all. I would be very disappointed with a rebuilding with nothing to show for it (how many times have we seen the Pirates do that?).
Dog, I've not seen one person on here suggest that the Pirates push all their chips into the center of the table. There aren't just two ways, the Pirates or the Royals way, to play the game.
All myself and a number of others are saying is "WOW, KC has blown the Pirates story about available money, the Pirates could indeed invest another $15/20M to try for a WS without hurting the future in any way."
This is not a choice about the future of the Pirates verses the present, it's unfortunately a choice between spending available money on the Pirates or pocket that money for whatever other use Mr Nutting decides.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
7A5E4A42472B0 wrote: Those who think the Royals spending for payroll at $145M is excessive or counterproductive have a point, but not to the extent that increasing payroll spending can't be done with savvy and a reasonable expenditure. I suggest that the Pirates are not in a position right now to make that happen because the FA cupboard is bare. But it was a most egregious error on the Pirates F.O. for not acting when the time was right.
Consider that if the Pirates had signed David Price after the 2015 season to the same contract that the Red Sox did the Pirates current payroll entering Spring Training of 2017 would be $119M. And of course signing a free agent means not having to give up any assets (see Quintana and Sale).
How would a rotation of Price, Cole, Taillon, Nova and Kuhl look right now? Might even put a dirty little wrinkle in Joe Madden's Fruit Of The Looms. And if anyone thinks that going forward with Price's contract would cripple the Pirates just consider that almost certainly by 2018 Cutch's salary will be off the books so the $119M payroll won't be increasing much and might actually decrease with young cheap players such as Bell, Meadows, Glasnow, etc. taking over roster spots.
DING DING DING! We have a winner! And a glimpse of a WS in Pittsburgh if only....
Consider that if the Pirates had signed David Price after the 2015 season to the same contract that the Red Sox did the Pirates current payroll entering Spring Training of 2017 would be $119M. And of course signing a free agent means not having to give up any assets (see Quintana and Sale).
How would a rotation of Price, Cole, Taillon, Nova and Kuhl look right now? Might even put a dirty little wrinkle in Joe Madden's Fruit Of The Looms. And if anyone thinks that going forward with Price's contract would cripple the Pirates just consider that almost certainly by 2018 Cutch's salary will be off the books so the $119M payroll won't be increasing much and might actually decrease with young cheap players such as Bell, Meadows, Glasnow, etc. taking over roster spots.
DING DING DING! We have a winner! And a glimpse of a WS in Pittsburgh if only....
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rucker59@gmail.com
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
And can you imagine the millions of $$$ in extra revenues the Pirates would have generated if they had gone all in with a David Price?
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
7E796F67697E39354C6B616D6560226F63610C0 wrote: Back to the Royals, would people be happy with these moves if they didn't already win a World Series?
According to MLB.com, they don't have one prospect in the Top 100. Sure, they graduated a ton that won it all. But what if they didn't win a World Series?
They are in a different position than the Pirates. I could deal with a rebuilding if my team already won it all. I would be very disappointed with a rebuilding with nothing to show for it (how many times have we seen the Pirates do that?).
Dog, I've not seen one person on here suggest that the Pirates push all their chips into the center of the table. There aren't just two ways, the Pirates or the Royals way, to play the game.
All myself and a number of others are saying is "WOW, KC has blown the Pirates story about available money, the Pirates could indeed invest another $15/20M to try for a WS without hurting the future in any way."
This is not a choice about the future of the Pirates verses the present, it's unfortunately a choice between spending available money on the Pirates or pocket that money for whatever other use Mr Nutting decides.
I was just asking a question.
According to MLB.com, they don't have one prospect in the Top 100. Sure, they graduated a ton that won it all. But what if they didn't win a World Series?
They are in a different position than the Pirates. I could deal with a rebuilding if my team already won it all. I would be very disappointed with a rebuilding with nothing to show for it (how many times have we seen the Pirates do that?).
Dog, I've not seen one person on here suggest that the Pirates push all their chips into the center of the table. There aren't just two ways, the Pirates or the Royals way, to play the game.
All myself and a number of others are saying is "WOW, KC has blown the Pirates story about available money, the Pirates could indeed invest another $15/20M to try for a WS without hurting the future in any way."
This is not a choice about the future of the Pirates verses the present, it's unfortunately a choice between spending available money on the Pirates or pocket that money for whatever other use Mr Nutting decides.
I was just asking a question.