2024 Official Spring Training Thread

[Surgnbuck]

Interesting breakout game. Didn't know it was only going 7 innings. Pirates used 6 pitchers, the Orioles only 2. The Orioles subbed all the position players it seems at some point. Pirates pitchers allowed one hit. Pirates themselves only managed five singles.

Skenes was awesome.

[Carolina Bucco]

It's ridiculous that Skenes is going to be in starting rotation on opening day.

He's the best pitcher in this franchise BY A MILE.

I am worried the Pirate are going to play mind games with him in the minors and leave him there for a while to get "seasoning," while also trying to change or "tweak" his pitching style/mechanics, and in general they'll just screw him up.

As I've said before ... just put him in the rotation and leave him alone.

Not overthink it and make it complicated.

I full believe a lot of other (more successful) teams would just stick him in the rotation on day one and tell him to go to work.

[Bobster]

It's ridiculous that Skenes is going to be in starting rotation on opening day.

He's the best pitcher in this franchise BY A MILE.

I am worried the Pirate are going to play mind games with him in the minors and leave him there for a while to get "seasoning," while also trying to change or "tweak" his pitching style/mechanics, and in general they'll just screw him up.

As I've said before ... just put him in the rotation and leave him alone.

Not overthink it and make it complicated.

I full believe a lot of other (more successful) teams would just stick him in the rotation on day one and tell him to go to work.

Most teams are careful with roster manipulation. That's why MLB last year created a new rule that if a player finishes 1st or 2nd in ROY voting, it counts as a year of service even if he doesn't spend the required number of days (172) on the MLB roster. A player only needs to spend about 2 weeks in the minors for the team to get an extra year of control. If Skenes spends the whole season on the MLB roster, the Pirates control him for 2024-2029. If he spends a couple weeks in the minors, they'll have him the rest of 2024 plus the 6 years of 2025-2030. Skenes is a special talent. No sense having him 1 less year than they could have just to pitch a couple extra games early in the season.

Super 2 is another issue, determining how many of those years a player can have his salary determined by arbitration. Skenes is a smart guy. I'm sure he's well aware of all that goes into a team's decision as to when to promote a rookie to the MLB roster. I don't think it will mess him up.

[Carolina Bucco]

The problem is, the Pirates will trade him before they have to pay him. So we're not going to have him through 2029 (or 30) anyway. Around 2027 the front office will say "we can get more value for him now with 2 years left on his contract." So I'd go ahead and put him in the starting rotation now b/c he's probably only going to have 3-4 years in Pittsburgh anyway. It's infuriating but that this franchise has proven time and time and time again that's how they operate.

[Bobster]

The problem is, the Pirates will trade him before they have to pay him. So we're not going to have him through 2029 (or 30) anyway. Around 2027 the front office will say "we can get more value for him now with 2 years left on his contract." So I'd go ahead and put him in the starting rotation now b/c he's probably only going to have 3-4 years in Pittsburgh anyway. It's infuriating but that this franchise has proven time and time and time again that's how they operate.

That's true. But it's still an extra year of control before trading him. If 2024 doesn't count as a service year, and they trade him after 4 service years (2025-2028), then they have him thru 2028. If 2024 counts as a service year and they trade him after 4 service years, then they have him thru 2027.

[Doc]

The problem is, the Pirates will trade him before they have to pay him. So we're not going to have him through 2029 (or 30) anyway. Around 2027 the front office will say "we can get more value for him now with 2 years left on his contract." So I'd go ahead and put him in the starting rotation now b/c he's probably only going to have 3-4 years in Pittsburgh anyway. It's infuriating but that this franchise has proven time and time and time again that's how they operate.

That's true. But it's still an extra year of control before trading him. If 2024 doesn't count as a service year, and they trade him after 4 service years (2025-2028), then they have him thru 2028. If 2024 counts as a service year and they trade him after 4 service years, then they have him thru 2027.

I lean toward keeping him down for two weeks for the reasons you stated, but one thing I keep thinking about is how many innings they're going to allow him to pitch this year, whether they're in Altoona, Indy, or Pittsburgh. If, for example, they won't let him exceed 150 innings, I would think they'd want to limit the ones in the minor leagues and have him pitch the majority of those innings with the Pirates.

But, if he struggles in Indy initially, then they won't be able to justify bringing him here, which means he'll burn more innings in Indy getting himself right. When he does finally do well enough to be promoted, he may not have many innings left to use, maybe only enough to take him into late August, say. Imagine if he's pitching really well while he's here, helping the Pirates be in legitimate contention for a playoff spot, and then the team shuts him down September 1. The fans would go nuts.

This could all go badly for the Pirates public relations-wise, but starting Skenes in the minor leagues holds the most benefit for the future. However, if he's in Indy for three or four starts, and dominates each of them, come September we all might be looking back to those two to three weeks he spent in Indy wishing he had been pitching here instead. With the way things seem to usually go sideways for the Pirates, would anyone be surprised if the very worst scenario came about?

[Javy]

The problem is, the Pirates will trade him before they have to pay him. So we're not going to have him through 2029 (or 30) anyway. Around 2027 the front office will say "we can get more value for him now with 2 years left on his contract." So I'd go ahead and put him in the starting rotation now b/c he's probably only going to have 3-4 years in Pittsburgh anyway. It's infuriating but that this franchise has proven time and time and time again that's how they operate.

That's true. But it's still an extra year of control before trading him. If 2024 doesn't count as a service year, and they trade him after 4 service years (2025-2028), then they have him thru 2028. If 2024 counts as a service year and they trade him after 4 service years, then they have him thru 2027.

I lean toward keeping him down for two weeks for the reasons you stated, but one thing I keep thinking about is how many innings they're going to allow him to pitch this year, whether they're in Altoona, Indy, or Pittsburgh. If, for example, they won't let him exceed 150 innings, I would think they'd want to limit the ones in the minor leagues and have him pitch the majority of those innings with the Pirates.

But, if he struggles in Indy initially, then they won't be able to justify bringing him here, which means he'll burn more innings in Indy getting himself right. When he does finally do well enough to be promoted, he may not have many innings left to use, maybe only enough to take him into late August, say. Imagine if he's pitching really well while he's here, helping the Pirates be in legitimate contention for a playoff spot, and then the team shuts him down September 1. The fans would go nuts.

This could all go badly for the Pirates public relations-wise, but starting Skenes in the minor leagues holds the most benefit for the future. However, if he's in Indy for three or four starts, and dominates each of them, come September we all might be looking back to those two to three weeks he spent in Indy wishing he had been pitching here instead. With the way things seem to usually go sideways for the Pirates, would anyone be surprised if the very worst scenario came about?

This is a perfect example of what has become "The Pirate Way'. Dammed if you do promote him now, Dammed if you don't and start him in the minors. If I recall correctly, most of his prior pitching career in college was as a reliever at the Air Force Academy. Last year was his first full season as a starter when he transferred to LSU. 150 innings this year might be a bit of a stretch. I would start him in the minors and let him continue to build up to a full starter workload. He's a big, strong, horse, but if that arm goes lame, he'll be another failed 1st rounder. Hope like heck that doesn't happen! The Pirates need to strike gold here!

[3pirates3]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/03/ ... gency.html

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... th01.shtml

[Surgnbuck]

Before anyone annoints Skenes as the best pitcher the Pirates have, let's see him pitch 6 full innings in a game once or thrice.

[fjk090852-7]

Bucs are signing Michael Taylor.