Huntington comments on Quintana

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IABucFan
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Huntington comments on Quintana

Post by IABucFan »

4F464E5F512B0 wrote: Oops. Nevermind.  I forgot about Hutchison.   All he has to do is be a human being in ST and he's coming north.   So barring an early DL stint out of spring training, Brault is out.



Hutchison is out of options, we paid him arb, and we have to try to save face for that ridiculously stupid trade.



My bad


I disagree with this. Huntington has shown a propensity to cut his losses. I haven't seen him run guys out there in an effort to "justify" a trade/signing. E.g. Wandy Rodriguez, Jon Niese, and Jonathan Sanchez. I honestly think the top five will make the rotation. That could be any two of Kuhl, Glasnow, Brault, Williams, or Hutchison. If anything, given that he's the only lefty in a rotation full of right handers, Brault might have a slight edge over the others.
dmetz
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Huntington comments on Quintana

Post by dmetz »

424A497E684D6A650B0 wrote: Oops. Nevermind.  I forgot about Hutchison.   All he has to do is be a human being in ST and he's coming north.   So barring an early DL stint out of spring training, Brault is out.



Hutchison is out of options, we paid him arb, and we have to try to save face for that ridiculously stupid trade.



My bad


I disagree with this.  Huntington has shown a propensity to cut his losses.  I haven't seen him run guys out there in an effort to "justify" a trade/signing.  E.g. Wandy Rodriguez, Jon Niese, and Jonathan Sanchez.  I honestly think the top five will make the rotation.  That could be any two of Kuhl, Glasnow, Brault, Williams, or Hutchison.  If anything, given that he's the only lefty in a rotation full of right handers, Brault might have a slight edge over the others.


Is there an example of us offering a pitcher arb and then not bringing him north out of ST? It is possible, however unlikely, that he's moved to the bullpen.



He has no options. While cutting loses has happened in the past, I don't recall any similar circumstances where it's been done that quickly
Bobster21

Huntington comments on Quintana

Post by Bobster21 »

They used Hutchsion in relief in 5 of his 6 Pirate games last year so the bullpen is an option. But I believe he has the inside track on the 5th starter job.
IABucFan
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Huntington comments on Quintana

Post by IABucFan »

Given that he's out of options, that's probably true, but I'd like to see him in the bullpen to start out, personally. I've never been a big fan of just outright releasing a player. It's not a matter of if, but when, injuries will happen, or you'll need a spot starter due to a DH or something. I could live with giving Hutchison mop up duty to start out and keep him stretched out. We could do worse for our #6 starter. Here's what I'm thinking for our staff coming out of ST:



Cole

Taillon

Nova

Brault

Kuhl



Hutchison

Hughes

Nicasio

Bastardo

Rivero

Hudson

Watson



It also wouldn't shock me to see one of our lefty relievers dealt before the end of ST.
Ecbucs
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Huntington comments on Quintana

Post by Ecbucs »

I think there is good chance that Wade LeBlanc and/or Webb make the team with at least one lefty deal
notes34
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Huntington comments on Quintana

Post by notes34 »

4B4340776144636C020 wrote: Given that he's out of options, that's probably true, but I'd like to see him in the bullpen to start out, personally.  I've never been a big fan of just outright releasing a player.  It's not a matter of if, but when, injuries will happen, or you'll need a spot starter due to a DH or something.  I could live with giving Hutchison mop up duty to start out and keep him stretched out.  We could do worse for our #6 starter.  Here's what I'm thinking for our staff coming out of ST:



Cole

Taillon

Nova

Brault

Kuhl



Hutchison

Hughes

Nicasio

Bastardo

Rivero

Hudson

Watson



It also wouldn't shock me to see one of our lefty relievers dealt before the end of ST.
I can't say I'm excited to see Brault in your projected rotation. He will get a look just because he is LH.
IABucFan
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:36 am

Huntington comments on Quintana

Post by IABucFan »

7D7C6776602027130 wrote: Given that he's out of options, that's probably true, but I'd like to see him in the bullpen to start out, personally.  I've never been a big fan of just outright releasing a player.  It's not a matter of if, but when, injuries will happen, or you'll need a spot starter due to a DH or something.  I could live with giving Hutchison mop up duty to start out and keep him stretched out.  We could do worse for our #6 starter.  Here's what I'm thinking for our staff coming out of ST:



Cole

Taillon

Nova

Brault

Kuhl



Hutchison

Hughes

Nicasio

Bastardo

Rivero

Hudson

Watson



It also wouldn't shock me to see one of our lefty relievers dealt before the end of ST.
I can't say I'm excited to see Brault in your projected rotation. He will get a look just because he is LH.


Fair enough. Can't say I disagree, even. I've been pretty clear that I think we need one more starter. I like our top three...I think they match up pretty well around baseball. I like whoever wins our #5 spot (my guess is Kuhl). Problem is the #4 spot in the rotation.



I realize some people don't buy the whole #1, 2, 3, 4, 5 bit...but I think it's instructive. Yes, it would be great to have five aces to run out there everyday. Who wouldn't want a rotation of Scherzer, Sale, Kershaw, Arrieta, and Bumgarner? But, no team has that rotation. So, in my mind, the top 30 starters in MLB are #1's. So, I ask myself the question, "Is Gerrit Cole in the top 30 starters in MLB?" I'd say yes. I think you'd be hard pressed to come up with 30 starters around baseball better than Gerrit Cole. Ditto with Taillon. Are there 60 starters around baseball better than him? Maybe...it's debatable I'm sure, but I'd put him in that tier. With Nova, are there 90 starters around MLB better than him? I doubt it, honestly. Are there 150 starters around MLB better than Chad Kuhl? Again, I doubt it. But, are there 120 starters around MLB better than Hutchison, Williams, Brault, et all? I'd say yes, undoubtedly so. There are 120 starters better than Chad Kuhl. I'm comfortable saying that. That's why I'm comfortable calling him our #5, but not our #4.



Again, in an ideal world, you're running an ace out there every day. But, the 91 Braves don't come along every year. Even the Cubs last year weren't fantastic in their #4-5 spots in the rotation. (Look at how long it took Jason Hammel to get a job this winter). But, are there 120 starters around baseball better than Jason Hammel? I'd guess the answer is no. So, on average, given that he's pitching in the tier where he needs to be, it gave the Cubs a better chance to win on days when he took the ball. Yes, he might be matched up against Bumgarner one day, but that means the previous night it was probably Lester vs. Matt Cain or something. In an individual game, it doesn't matter. But over the course of 162, if guys fit into their "tier," you'll come out ahead more often than not.



What's the net takeaway? Our lack of a true #4 starter means that Chad Kuhl, whom I'm more than comfortable with as our #5, is playing out of his tier. That causes someone else to play out of his tier as our 5th starter. Am I comfortable giving Brault the ball in a spot start, meaning he's our #6 starter? Yes. I am. Why? Because I don't think there are 180 starters throughout MLB and AAA better than Brault. But giving him the ball every 5 days? I think that's asking more than he is capable of giving.



In other words, I fear that on average, the Pirates will be more or less even or possibly favored in the daily pitching matchup roughly 60% of the time (when Cole, Taillon, and Nova pitch). They'll be slight underdogs roughly 40% of the time (when whomever and Kuhl pitch). If we had a true #4 starter, I think those percentages shift drastically...probably into the 75-80% range where we are either even or favored in the daily pitching match-up. Over the course of 162, that 15-20% swing is huge.



So yes, we need another starter...just not Jose Quintana...unless the Sox want to deal him straight up for Alan Hanson...Neal should have made that deal yesterday. ;D
Ecbucs
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Huntington comments on Quintana

Post by Ecbucs »

4E46457264416669070 wrote: Given that he's out of options, that's probably true, but I'd like to see him in the bullpen to start out, personally.  I've never been a big fan of just outright releasing a player.  It's not a matter of if, but when, injuries will happen, or you'll need a spot starter due to a DH or something.  I could live with giving Hutchison mop up duty to start out and keep him stretched out.  We could do worse for our #6 starter.  Here's what I'm thinking for our staff coming out of ST:



Cole

Taillon

Nova

Brault

Kuhl



Hutchison

Hughes

Nicasio

Bastardo

Rivero

Hudson

Watson



It also wouldn't shock me to see one of our lefty relievers dealt before the end of ST.
I can't say I'm excited to see Brault in your projected rotation. He will get a look just because he is LH.


Fair enough.  Can't say I disagree, even.  I've been pretty clear that I think we need one more starter.  I like our top three...I think they match up pretty well around baseball.  I like whoever wins our #5 spot (my guess is Kuhl).  Problem is the #4 spot in the rotation. 



I realize some people don't buy the whole #1, 2, 3, 4, 5 bit...but I think it's instructive.  Yes, it would be great to have five aces to run out there everyday.  Who wouldn't want a rotation of Scherzer, Sale, Kershaw, Arrieta, and Bumgarner?  But, no team has that rotation.  So, in my mind, the top 30 starters in MLB are #1's.  So, I ask myself the question, "Is Gerrit Cole in the top 30 starters in MLB?"  I'd say yes.  I think you'd be hard pressed to come up with 30 starters around baseball better than Gerrit Cole.  Ditto with Taillon.  Are there 60 starters around baseball better than him?  Maybe...it's debatable I'm sure, but I'd put him in that tier.  With Nova, are there 90 starters around MLB better than him?  I doubt it, honestly.  Are there 150 starters around MLB better than Chad Kuhl?  Again, I doubt it.  But, are there 120 starters around MLB better than Hutchison, Williams, Brault, et all?  I'd say yes, undoubtedly so.  There are 120 starters better than Chad Kuhl.  I'm comfortable saying that.  That's why I'm comfortable calling him our #5, but not our #4.



Again, in an ideal world, you're running an ace out there every day.  But, the 91 Braves don't come along every year.  Even the Cubs last year weren't fantastic in their #4-5 spots in the rotation.  (Look at how long it took Jason Hammel to get a job this winter).  But, are there 120 starters around baseball better than Jason Hammel?  I'd guess the answer is no.  So, on average, given that he's pitching in the tier where he needs to be, it gave the Cubs a better chance to win on days when he took the ball.  Yes, he might be matched up against Bumgarner one day, but that means the previous night it was probably Lester vs. Matt Cain or something.  In an individual game, it doesn't matter.  But over the course of 162, if guys fit into their "tier," you'll come out ahead more often than not.



What's the net takeaway?  Our lack of a true #4 starter means that Chad Kuhl, whom I'm more than comfortable with as our #5, is playing out of his tier.  That causes someone else to play out of his tier as our 5th starter.  Am I comfortable giving Brault the ball in a spot start, meaning he's our #6 starter?  Yes.  I am.  Why?  Because I don't think there are 180 starters throughout MLB and AAA better than Brault.  But giving him the ball every 5 days?  I think that's asking more than he is capable of giving.



In other words, I fear that on average, the Pirates will be more or less even or possibly favored in the daily pitching matchup roughly 60% of the time (when Cole, Taillon, and Nova pitch).  They'll be slight underdogs roughly 40% of the time (when whomever and Kuhl pitch).  If we had a true #4 starter, I think those percentages shift drastically...probably into the 75-80% range where we are either even or favored in the daily pitching match-up.  Over the course of 162, that 15-20% swing is huge.



So yes, we need another starter...just not Jose Quintana...unless the Sox want to deal him straight up for Alan Hanson...Neal should have made that deal yesterday. ;D
Wouldn't someone like Quintana provide a big upgrade in your numbers? Maybe take the 60% to 65 or 70%? That would make a big difference over 162. Although cost is an issue, I would not include 2 of Glasgow, Meadows and Keller
IABucFan
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Huntington comments on Quintana

Post by IABucFan »

0F29283F29394A0 wrote: Given that he's out of options, that's probably true, but I'd like to see him in the bullpen to start out, personally.  I've never been a big fan of just outright releasing a player.  It's not a matter of if, but when, injuries will happen, or you'll need a spot starter due to a DH or something.  I could live with giving Hutchison mop up duty to start out and keep him stretched out.  We could do worse for our #6 starter.  Here's what I'm thinking for our staff coming out of ST:



Cole

Taillon

Nova

Brault

Kuhl



Hutchison

Hughes

Nicasio

Bastardo

Rivero

Hudson

Watson



It also wouldn't shock me to see one of our lefty relievers dealt before the end of ST.
I can't say I'm excited to see Brault in your projected rotation. He will get a look just because he is LH.


Fair enough.  Can't say I disagree, even.  I've been pretty clear that I think we need one more starter.  I like our top three...I think they match up pretty well around baseball.  I like whoever wins our #5 spot (my guess is Kuhl).  Problem is the #4 spot in the rotation. 



I realize some people don't buy the whole #1, 2, 3, 4, 5 bit...but I think it's instructive.  Yes, it would be great to have five aces to run out there everyday.  Who wouldn't want a rotation of Scherzer, Sale, Kershaw, Arrieta, and Bumgarner?  But, no team has that rotation.  So, in my mind, the top 30 starters in MLB are #1's.  So, I ask myself the question, "Is Gerrit Cole in the top 30 starters in MLB?"  I'd say yes.  I think you'd be hard pressed to come up with 30 starters around baseball better than Gerrit Cole.  Ditto with Taillon.  Are there 60 starters around baseball better than him?  Maybe...it's debatable I'm sure, but I'd put him in that tier.  With Nova, are there 90 starters around MLB better than him?  I doubt it, honestly.  Are there 150 starters around MLB better than Chad Kuhl?  Again, I doubt it.  But, are there 120 starters around MLB better than Hutchison, Williams, Brault, et all?  I'd say yes, undoubtedly so.  There are 120 starters better than Chad Kuhl.  I'm comfortable saying that.  That's why I'm comfortable calling him our #5, but not our #4.



Again, in an ideal world, you're running an ace out there every day.  But, the 91 Braves don't come along every year.  Even the Cubs last year weren't fantastic in their #4-5 spots in the rotation.  (Look at how long it took Jason Hammel to get a job this winter).  But, are there 120 starters around baseball better than Jason Hammel?  I'd guess the answer is no.  So, on average, given that he's pitching in the tier where he needs to be, it gave the Cubs a better chance to win on days when he took the ball.  Yes, he might be matched up against Bumgarner one day, but that means the previous night it was probably Lester vs. Matt Cain or something.  In an individual game, it doesn't matter.  But over the course of 162, if guys fit into their "tier," you'll come out ahead more often than not.



What's the net takeaway?  Our lack of a true #4 starter means that Chad Kuhl, whom I'm more than comfortable with as our #5, is playing out of his tier.  That causes someone else to play out of his tier as our 5th starter.  Am I comfortable giving Brault the ball in a spot start, meaning he's our #6 starter?  Yes.  I am.  Why?  Because I don't think there are 180 starters throughout MLB and AAA better than Brault.  But giving him the ball every 5 days?  I think that's asking more than he is capable of giving.



In other words, I fear that on average, the Pirates will be more or less even or possibly favored in the daily pitching matchup roughly 60% of the time (when Cole, Taillon, and Nova pitch).  They'll be slight underdogs roughly 40% of the time (when whomever and Kuhl pitch).  If we had a true #4 starter, I think those percentages shift drastically...probably into the 75-80% range where we are either even or favored in the daily pitching match-up.  Over the course of 162, that 15-20% swing is huge.



So yes, we need another starter...just not Jose Quintana...unless the Sox want to deal him straight up for Alan Hanson...Neal should have made that deal yesterday. ;D
Wouldn't someone like Quintana provide a big upgrade in your numbers? Maybe take the 60% to 65 or 70%? That would make a big difference over 162. Although cost is an issue, I would not include 2 of Glasgow, Meadows and Keller


Well, that's just it. From everything we've heard, from the Pirates, the Astros, and the Yankees, the Sox want too much for him. I'm not willing to give up two of Glasnow, Meadows, and Keller.
mouse
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:46 pm

Huntington comments on Quintana

Post by mouse »

At one point NH said the Sox wanted threetop prospects. So it would be Glasnow, Meadows, and Keller. Or plug in Bell for one of those three. And who knows what else.
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