434E4F786E6E626B6C630D0 wrote: I think McCutchen is better on route running and tracking down balls over Polanco. Yeah, Polanco has a much better arm, but he misses way too many balls in my opinion.
Putting McCutchen in LF at PNC Park would be bad. Marte coves so much ground and holds runners to singles. Everyone would run on McCutchen.
I do wonder why Marte doesn't play more CF on the road. Maybe put McCutchen in LF in those conventional ballparks? It will be a learning curve for him, but a better idea.
Overall, I think McCutchen's arm is weak, but I think he is above average out there. I am rarely nervous when a ball is hit to him. And no way is he Pedro Alvarez bad. Kind of shocked someone said he is as bad as Alvarez (Wow).
Actually no one said that he was as bad as Pedro.
McCutchen is the third best CF on his own team, but you think he is average?
I find it hard to believe you watch McCutchen play much if you are going to seriously claim he is better than Polanco.
LF is the only play McCutchen can play. Jason Bay played out there for years with his awful arm. Again, Marte will cover most of the ground anyways, so it does not matter.
You did say "McCutchen is very bad in CF. Saying he is not that bad would be like saying Pedro was not that bad at 3B or 1B. You can say it, but that does not mean it is true." Sounds like a comparison to me, sorry.
Just because players on his team are better doesn't mean he is bad overall? Yes, I do think he is better than Polanco in catching and tracking down balls. Polanco lead the league last year in errors. I know errors are rarely given on bad routes, so these are mostly on balls clanking off his glove or a throw.
What is the difference if Marte is in CF than LF? He can still cover McCutchen. If people think Marte and Polanco are so much better on defense than McCutchen, the best spot for him would be between the two, right?
Bay did play LF at PNC Park with his weak arm. With Marte out there now, we saw the difference he makes. He holds guys to singles in the corner at times or throws them out. That is a plus I wouldn't want to take away.
Cutch's Struggles Continue
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Cutch's Struggles Continue
Seems like a number of balls have clanged off Cutch's glove this year. Polanco still looks somewhat shaky to me. I know he's making the plays but he doesn't look smooth and confident in the OF. On the other hand, Cutch looks very smooth and confident and then doesn't catch the ball. So I dunno. Marte needs to play the spacious LF at PNC. I guess it's not practical to switch he and Cutch in LF-CF on the road. Besides, they would never disrespect Cutch that way. Just like they won't move Cutch down in the batting order. Seems like Cutch is bigger than the team even when he isn't producing.
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NCBuccofan
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Cutch's Struggles Continue
555E565A5F5E450006714850595E5E1F525E310 wrote: There are a bunch of defensive stats used today: Putouts, Assists, Double Plays, Total Zone Runs, Range Factor and of course Fielding Percentage.
McCutchen, over his career, has been pretty high in most categories. He is up there in some again this year so far too.
I think you can compare outfielders to each other. They all run down balls so you can see their route running. They all still have to catch the ball (you know Polanco led the league in errors last year, right?). It is not like comparing a Sedan to a Sports Car. CF has more ground to cover, but that is about it.
Players who are below average don't get nominated for major awards. You might not think they deserve certain awards, but they still deserve to be nominated. The "eye test" is an opinion, but the stats also back up my eyes.
Which one of those stats are you using to show McCutchen is average? Forgetting that a few will tell you absolutely nothing about his ability, but would like to hear this.
You mentioned that it depends on what you call average. Is this really something that needs explained? You take all the players and rank them. The ones in the middle are average. McCutchen is not average.
You are now talking about career...how is that relevant to today? Again, we will just ignore that he has been below average his entire career.
Comparing CF to RF is silly. They have different responsibilities...and McCutchen does not cover all of his ground, so he should not get credit for it. But in any case, again Polanco is actually an above average RF, so going with your comparison would be silly if you are trying to prove anything about McCutchen.
Polanco gets to twice as many balls outside of his zone, which would likely be McCutchen's. But you are trying to claim they are similar? You cannot just dismiss the giant difference in arm's either.
Trying to understand these arguments.
McCutchen, over his career, has been pretty high in most categories. He is up there in some again this year so far too.
I think you can compare outfielders to each other. They all run down balls so you can see their route running. They all still have to catch the ball (you know Polanco led the league in errors last year, right?). It is not like comparing a Sedan to a Sports Car. CF has more ground to cover, but that is about it.
Players who are below average don't get nominated for major awards. You might not think they deserve certain awards, but they still deserve to be nominated. The "eye test" is an opinion, but the stats also back up my eyes.
Which one of those stats are you using to show McCutchen is average? Forgetting that a few will tell you absolutely nothing about his ability, but would like to hear this.
You mentioned that it depends on what you call average. Is this really something that needs explained? You take all the players and rank them. The ones in the middle are average. McCutchen is not average.
You are now talking about career...how is that relevant to today? Again, we will just ignore that he has been below average his entire career.
Comparing CF to RF is silly. They have different responsibilities...and McCutchen does not cover all of his ground, so he should not get credit for it. But in any case, again Polanco is actually an above average RF, so going with your comparison would be silly if you are trying to prove anything about McCutchen.
Polanco gets to twice as many balls outside of his zone, which would likely be McCutchen's. But you are trying to claim they are similar? You cannot just dismiss the giant difference in arm's either.
Trying to understand these arguments.
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NCBuccofan
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Cutch's Struggles Continue
5E555D5154554E0B0D7A435B5255551459553A0 wrote: He also continues to throw to the wrong base allowing runners to move up. I hate to admit this as I am a huge fan but Cutch looks like his best days are behind him.
That is another problem, which makes his bad defense even worse. I believe it was Friday where a runner was rounding third and he casually threw to second.
I agree. That is my biggest issue with his defense. Those are mental errors that shouldn't happen.
It is not my biggest issue. I would not care at all if he was any good otherwise.
That is another problem, which makes his bad defense even worse. I believe it was Friday where a runner was rounding third and he casually threw to second.
I agree. That is my biggest issue with his defense. Those are mental errors that shouldn't happen.
It is not my biggest issue. I would not care at all if he was any good otherwise.
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NCBuccofan
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Cutch's Struggles Continue
6269616D6869723731467F676E6969286569060 wrote: I think McCutchen is better on route running and tracking down balls over Polanco. Yeah, Polanco has a much better arm, but he misses way too many balls in my opinion.
Putting McCutchen in LF at PNC Park would be bad. Marte coves so much ground and holds runners to singles. Everyone would run on McCutchen.
I do wonder why Marte doesn't play more CF on the road. Maybe put McCutchen in LF in those conventional ballparks? It will be a learning curve for him, but a better idea.
Overall, I think McCutchen's arm is weak, but I think he is above average out there. I am rarely nervous when a ball is hit to him. And no way is he Pedro Alvarez bad. Kind of shocked someone said he is as bad as Alvarez (Wow).
Actually no one said that he was as bad as Pedro.
McCutchen is the third best CF on his own team, but you think he is average?
I find it hard to believe you watch McCutchen play much if you are going to seriously claim he is better than Polanco.
LF is the only play McCutchen can play. Jason Bay played out there for years with his awful arm. Again, Marte will cover most of the ground anyways, so it does not matter.
You did say "McCutchen is very bad in CF. Saying he is not that bad would be like saying Pedro was not that bad at 3B or 1B. You can say it, but that does not mean it is true." Sounds like a comparison to me, sorry.
Just because players on his team are better doesn't mean he is bad overall? Yes, I do think he is better than Polanco in catching and tracking down balls. Polanco lead the league last year in errors. I know errors are rarely given on bad routes, so these are mostly on balls clanking off his glove or a throw.
What is the difference if Marte is in CF than LF? He can still cover McCutchen. If people think Marte and Polanco are so much better on defense than McCutchen, the best spot for him would be between the two, right?
Bay did play LF at PNC Park with his weak arm. With Marte out there now, we saw the difference he makes. He holds guys to singles in the corner at times or throws them out. That is a plus I wouldn't want to take away.
Umm, it is comparing the ridiculousness of the claim. Seems rather obvious that the statement you quoted is not comparing McCutchen's defense to Pedro's.
McCutchen being the 3rd best CF on his own team does not mean he is bad overall. The fact that he is last or near last in many defensive metrics does. It does however amplify the problem.
I really do not care who lead the league in errors last year. Lorenzo Cain led MLB in errors last year. Cain is one of the best CF in baseball, if not the best. I am sure you will ignore that.
Why would it be better if Marte is in CF? Because he would get to call off McCutchen. McCutchen would have easier throws to make. Are you really asking why your best OF should be in CF?
LOL, so you will give up doubles and triples, and advancing runners from the CF to save a few extra bases in LF? Come one now.
Putting McCutchen in LF at PNC Park would be bad. Marte coves so much ground and holds runners to singles. Everyone would run on McCutchen.
I do wonder why Marte doesn't play more CF on the road. Maybe put McCutchen in LF in those conventional ballparks? It will be a learning curve for him, but a better idea.
Overall, I think McCutchen's arm is weak, but I think he is above average out there. I am rarely nervous when a ball is hit to him. And no way is he Pedro Alvarez bad. Kind of shocked someone said he is as bad as Alvarez (Wow).
Actually no one said that he was as bad as Pedro.
McCutchen is the third best CF on his own team, but you think he is average?
I find it hard to believe you watch McCutchen play much if you are going to seriously claim he is better than Polanco.
LF is the only play McCutchen can play. Jason Bay played out there for years with his awful arm. Again, Marte will cover most of the ground anyways, so it does not matter.
You did say "McCutchen is very bad in CF. Saying he is not that bad would be like saying Pedro was not that bad at 3B or 1B. You can say it, but that does not mean it is true." Sounds like a comparison to me, sorry.
Just because players on his team are better doesn't mean he is bad overall? Yes, I do think he is better than Polanco in catching and tracking down balls. Polanco lead the league last year in errors. I know errors are rarely given on bad routes, so these are mostly on balls clanking off his glove or a throw.
What is the difference if Marte is in CF than LF? He can still cover McCutchen. If people think Marte and Polanco are so much better on defense than McCutchen, the best spot for him would be between the two, right?
Bay did play LF at PNC Park with his weak arm. With Marte out there now, we saw the difference he makes. He holds guys to singles in the corner at times or throws them out. That is a plus I wouldn't want to take away.
Umm, it is comparing the ridiculousness of the claim. Seems rather obvious that the statement you quoted is not comparing McCutchen's defense to Pedro's.
McCutchen being the 3rd best CF on his own team does not mean he is bad overall. The fact that he is last or near last in many defensive metrics does. It does however amplify the problem.
I really do not care who lead the league in errors last year. Lorenzo Cain led MLB in errors last year. Cain is one of the best CF in baseball, if not the best. I am sure you will ignore that.
Why would it be better if Marte is in CF? Because he would get to call off McCutchen. McCutchen would have easier throws to make. Are you really asking why your best OF should be in CF?
LOL, so you will give up doubles and triples, and advancing runners from the CF to save a few extra bases in LF? Come one now.
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NCBuccofan
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Cutch's Struggles Continue
597479686F7E69292A1B0 wrote: Seems like a number of balls have clanged off Cutch's glove this year. Polanco still looks somewhat shaky to me. I know he's making the plays but he doesn't look smooth and confident in the OF. On the other hand, Cutch looks very smooth and confident and then doesn't catch the ball. So I dunno. Marte needs to play the spacious LF at PNC. I guess it's not practical to switch he and Cutch in LF-CF on the road. Besides, they would never disrespect Cutch that way. Just like they won't move Cutch down in the batting order. Seems like Cutch is bigger than the team even when he isn't producing.
Looking cool out there, McCutchen wins every time. I am struggling to find any evidence that he is even close to being average let alone as good as Polanco.
Looking cool out there, McCutchen wins every time. I am struggling to find any evidence that he is even close to being average let alone as good as Polanco.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Cutch's Struggles Continue
676A6B5C4A4A464F4847290 wrote: There are a bunch of defensive stats used today: Putouts, Assists, Double Plays, Total Zone Runs, Range Factor and of course Fielding Percentage.
McCutchen, over his career, has been pretty high in most categories. He is up there in some again this year so far too.
I think you can compare outfielders to each other. They all run down balls so you can see their route running. They all still have to catch the ball (you know Polanco led the league in errors last year, right?). It is not like comparing a Sedan to a Sports Car. CF has more ground to cover, but that is about it.
Players who are below average don't get nominated for major awards. You might not think they deserve certain awards, but they still deserve to be nominated. The "eye test" is an opinion, but the stats also back up my eyes.
Which one of those stats are you using to show McCutchen is average? Forgetting that a few will tell you absolutely nothing about his ability, but would like to hear this.
You mentioned that it depends on what you call average. Is this really something that needs explained? You take all the players and rank them. The ones in the middle are average. McCutchen is not average.
You are now talking about career...how is that relevant to today? Again, we will just ignore that he has been below average his entire career.
Comparing CF to RF is silly. They have different responsibilities...and McCutchen does not cover all of his ground, so he should not get credit for it. But in any case, again Polanco is actually an above average RF, so going with your comparison would be silly if you are trying to prove anything about McCutchen.
Polanco gets to twice as many balls outside of his zone, which would likely be McCutchen's. But you are trying to claim they are similar? You cannot just dismiss the giant difference in arm's either.
Trying to understand these arguments.
McCutchen is in the top three in many of those categories. So, I know what "average" is and he is above them in my opinion and using stats.
Career too, he has been above average in my eyes and using the same stats. Winning a Gold Glove and being a finalist shows his career too.
Yes, I do think McCutchen runs better routes than Polanco. I think McCutchen squeezes more balls than Polanco too. Polanco has lead the league in errors too. Just another stat for you.
McCutchen's arm is weak. I never said it wasn't. Especially, compared to Marte and Polanco, who have two of the biggest arms in the game.
I am not arguing, having a discussion. I do trust my eyes. I then went to the stats to see what they said. The stats support my case too.
McCutchen has missed a few balls this year (I hate his sliding attempts), but overall he is above average.
McCutchen, over his career, has been pretty high in most categories. He is up there in some again this year so far too.
I think you can compare outfielders to each other. They all run down balls so you can see their route running. They all still have to catch the ball (you know Polanco led the league in errors last year, right?). It is not like comparing a Sedan to a Sports Car. CF has more ground to cover, but that is about it.
Players who are below average don't get nominated for major awards. You might not think they deserve certain awards, but they still deserve to be nominated. The "eye test" is an opinion, but the stats also back up my eyes.
Which one of those stats are you using to show McCutchen is average? Forgetting that a few will tell you absolutely nothing about his ability, but would like to hear this.
You mentioned that it depends on what you call average. Is this really something that needs explained? You take all the players and rank them. The ones in the middle are average. McCutchen is not average.
You are now talking about career...how is that relevant to today? Again, we will just ignore that he has been below average his entire career.
Comparing CF to RF is silly. They have different responsibilities...and McCutchen does not cover all of his ground, so he should not get credit for it. But in any case, again Polanco is actually an above average RF, so going with your comparison would be silly if you are trying to prove anything about McCutchen.
Polanco gets to twice as many balls outside of his zone, which would likely be McCutchen's. But you are trying to claim they are similar? You cannot just dismiss the giant difference in arm's either.
Trying to understand these arguments.
McCutchen is in the top three in many of those categories. So, I know what "average" is and he is above them in my opinion and using stats.
Career too, he has been above average in my eyes and using the same stats. Winning a Gold Glove and being a finalist shows his career too.
Yes, I do think McCutchen runs better routes than Polanco. I think McCutchen squeezes more balls than Polanco too. Polanco has lead the league in errors too. Just another stat for you.
McCutchen's arm is weak. I never said it wasn't. Especially, compared to Marte and Polanco, who have two of the biggest arms in the game.
I am not arguing, having a discussion. I do trust my eyes. I then went to the stats to see what they said. The stats support my case too.
McCutchen has missed a few balls this year (I hate his sliding attempts), but overall he is above average.
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NCBuccofan
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Cutch's Struggles Continue
2B20282421203B7E780F362E272020612C204F0 wrote: There are a bunch of defensive stats used today: Putouts, Assists, Double Plays, Total Zone Runs, Range Factor and of course Fielding Percentage.
McCutchen, over his career, has been pretty high in most categories. He is up there in some again this year so far too.
I think you can compare outfielders to each other. They all run down balls so you can see their route running. They all still have to catch the ball (you know Polanco led the league in errors last year, right?). It is not like comparing a Sedan to a Sports Car. CF has more ground to cover, but that is about it.
Players who are below average don't get nominated for major awards. You might not think they deserve certain awards, but they still deserve to be nominated. The "eye test" is an opinion, but the stats also back up my eyes.
Which one of those stats are you using to show McCutchen is average? Forgetting that a few will tell you absolutely nothing about his ability, but would like to hear this.
You mentioned that it depends on what you call average. Is this really something that needs explained? You take all the players and rank them. The ones in the middle are average. McCutchen is not average.
You are now talking about career...how is that relevant to today? Again, we will just ignore that he has been below average his entire career.
Comparing CF to RF is silly. They have different responsibilities...and McCutchen does not cover all of his ground, so he should not get credit for it. But in any case, again Polanco is actually an above average RF, so going with your comparison would be silly if you are trying to prove anything about McCutchen.
Polanco gets to twice as many balls outside of his zone, which would likely be McCutchen's. But you are trying to claim they are similar? You cannot just dismiss the giant difference in arm's either.
Trying to understand these arguments.
McCutchen is in the top three in many of those categories. So, I know what "average" is and he is above them in my opinion and using stats.
Career too, he has been above average in my eyes and using the same stats. Winning a Gold Glove and being a finalist shows his career too.
Yes, I do think McCutchen runs better routes than Polanco. I think McCutchen squeezes more balls than Polanco too. Polanco has lead the league in errors too. Just another stat for you.
McCutchen's arm is weak. I never said it wasn't. Especially, compared to Marte and Polanco, who have two of the biggest arms in the game.
I am not arguing, having a discussion. I do trust my eyes. I then went to the stats to see what they said. The stats support my case too.
McCutchen has missed a few balls this year (I hate his sliding attempts), but overall he is above average.
Which one is he in the top 3? Going with the ones you mentioned he is not in the top 3 of "many". Only NL CFs, even though I should apparently include all OFs.
Putouts - 3rd. He is second in innings, so no shock.
Assists - ties for 6th
Double Plays - Not one CF has one, so why you included this is a mystery.
Total Zone Runs - Only found the top 5, no McCutchen
Range Factor - 5th. Not sure of relevance.
Fielding Percentage - 3rd for Qualified CFs. Not sure of relevance.
I see you are still hung up on the errors. I will again point out that Lorenzo Cain led baseball in OF errors last year. Get back to me on how McCutchen is better than him. I like how you said "Of course FLD%", like it matters for some reason.
McCutchen takes terrible routes and does not get to balls. Polanco gets to them.
You keep saying McCutchen is average and trying to act like Polanco is inferior, but have no evidence. If we are going off your eyes, I suggest seeing an optometrist.
I completely realize this is a discussion. You are making arguments. They are very poor ones that make little sense.
McCutchen, over his career, has been pretty high in most categories. He is up there in some again this year so far too.
I think you can compare outfielders to each other. They all run down balls so you can see their route running. They all still have to catch the ball (you know Polanco led the league in errors last year, right?). It is not like comparing a Sedan to a Sports Car. CF has more ground to cover, but that is about it.
Players who are below average don't get nominated for major awards. You might not think they deserve certain awards, but they still deserve to be nominated. The "eye test" is an opinion, but the stats also back up my eyes.
Which one of those stats are you using to show McCutchen is average? Forgetting that a few will tell you absolutely nothing about his ability, but would like to hear this.
You mentioned that it depends on what you call average. Is this really something that needs explained? You take all the players and rank them. The ones in the middle are average. McCutchen is not average.
You are now talking about career...how is that relevant to today? Again, we will just ignore that he has been below average his entire career.
Comparing CF to RF is silly. They have different responsibilities...and McCutchen does not cover all of his ground, so he should not get credit for it. But in any case, again Polanco is actually an above average RF, so going with your comparison would be silly if you are trying to prove anything about McCutchen.
Polanco gets to twice as many balls outside of his zone, which would likely be McCutchen's. But you are trying to claim they are similar? You cannot just dismiss the giant difference in arm's either.
Trying to understand these arguments.
McCutchen is in the top three in many of those categories. So, I know what "average" is and he is above them in my opinion and using stats.
Career too, he has been above average in my eyes and using the same stats. Winning a Gold Glove and being a finalist shows his career too.
Yes, I do think McCutchen runs better routes than Polanco. I think McCutchen squeezes more balls than Polanco too. Polanco has lead the league in errors too. Just another stat for you.
McCutchen's arm is weak. I never said it wasn't. Especially, compared to Marte and Polanco, who have two of the biggest arms in the game.
I am not arguing, having a discussion. I do trust my eyes. I then went to the stats to see what they said. The stats support my case too.
McCutchen has missed a few balls this year (I hate his sliding attempts), but overall he is above average.
Which one is he in the top 3? Going with the ones you mentioned he is not in the top 3 of "many". Only NL CFs, even though I should apparently include all OFs.
Putouts - 3rd. He is second in innings, so no shock.
Assists - ties for 6th
Double Plays - Not one CF has one, so why you included this is a mystery.
Total Zone Runs - Only found the top 5, no McCutchen
Range Factor - 5th. Not sure of relevance.
Fielding Percentage - 3rd for Qualified CFs. Not sure of relevance.
I see you are still hung up on the errors. I will again point out that Lorenzo Cain led baseball in OF errors last year. Get back to me on how McCutchen is better than him. I like how you said "Of course FLD%", like it matters for some reason.
McCutchen takes terrible routes and does not get to balls. Polanco gets to them.
You keep saying McCutchen is average and trying to act like Polanco is inferior, but have no evidence. If we are going off your eyes, I suggest seeing an optometrist.
I completely realize this is a discussion. You are making arguments. They are very poor ones that make little sense.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Cutch's Struggles Continue
I was asked if I was just looking at Fielding Percentage, that is why I said it that way. And then I listed the defensive stats.
5th and 3rd in categories, but they aren't relevant? Is that because it shows he is "above average"?
Lorenzo Cain: When did I mention him?
You win. I am wrong. Yay, way to go!
5th and 3rd in categories, but they aren't relevant? Is that because it shows he is "above average"?
Lorenzo Cain: When did I mention him?
You win. I am wrong. Yay, way to go!
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NCBuccofan
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Cutch's Struggles Continue
070C04080D0C175254231A020B0C0C4D000C630 wrote: I was asked if I was just looking at Fielding Percentage, that is why I said it that way. And then I listed the defensive stats.
5th and 3rd in categories, but they aren't relevant? Is that because it shows he is "above average"?
Lorenzo Cain: When did I mention him?
You win. I am wrong. Yay, way to go!
You said he was in the top 3 in many categories. He is not.
Putouts is based on playing time, so no one should remotely care about that.
Range factor does not tell you much either, every ball could be easy fly balls right to him for all we know.
You really agree that McCutchen has one error? Come one now.
I am working within the parameters you set, and you still take your ball and go home?
5th and 3rd in categories, but they aren't relevant? Is that because it shows he is "above average"?
Lorenzo Cain: When did I mention him?
You win. I am wrong. Yay, way to go!
You said he was in the top 3 in many categories. He is not.
Putouts is based on playing time, so no one should remotely care about that.
Range factor does not tell you much either, every ball could be easy fly balls right to him for all we know.
You really agree that McCutchen has one error? Come one now.
I am working within the parameters you set, and you still take your ball and go home?