I doubt Cole will be traded this year, but here's an interesting article speculating on what a return could look like --
http://piratesbreakdown.com/2017/05/13/ ... ble-trade/
July 31 trade deadline
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
July 31 trade deadline
577C7D607B637A566177777B140 wrote: My thoughts on a "rebuild"
a) the bucs wouldn't need a full rebuild...
-- a full rebuild is a for a team that stinks AND has old high priced players with few years of club control and a crappy farm system-- see 2011 Cubs. They had to sell off and essentially wait for draft picks and low level position player prospects to mature over 2-4 seasons and buy arms.
--Bucs have plenty of young controllable talent at the MLB level, some of which appears to be panning out, some may or may not.
--Bucs have plenty of farm prospects from low to high levels to give them a #7 organizational ranking for 2017
Teams like the Yanks and Sox improved dramatically in one trading deadline, without having to go "full rebuild"
Yanks went from #17 BA ranked farm to #2
White Sox went from #23 ranked farm to # 5
b) even a full rebuild doesn't need to be 5 years.
Cubs went to playoffs in their 4th rebuild season and won WS in 5th
I think the Bucs would be more along the lines of an Indians team that had some pieces and won 90 games, then had to have a few years of around .500 before getting pieces in place again.
I totally agree and my points as well. You said it a lot better.
a) the bucs wouldn't need a full rebuild...
-- a full rebuild is a for a team that stinks AND has old high priced players with few years of club control and a crappy farm system-- see 2011 Cubs. They had to sell off and essentially wait for draft picks and low level position player prospects to mature over 2-4 seasons and buy arms.
--Bucs have plenty of young controllable talent at the MLB level, some of which appears to be panning out, some may or may not.
--Bucs have plenty of farm prospects from low to high levels to give them a #7 organizational ranking for 2017
Teams like the Yanks and Sox improved dramatically in one trading deadline, without having to go "full rebuild"
Yanks went from #17 BA ranked farm to #2
White Sox went from #23 ranked farm to # 5
b) even a full rebuild doesn't need to be 5 years.
Cubs went to playoffs in their 4th rebuild season and won WS in 5th
I think the Bucs would be more along the lines of an Indians team that had some pieces and won 90 games, then had to have a few years of around .500 before getting pieces in place again.
I totally agree and my points as well. You said it a lot better.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
July 31 trade deadline
4641575F5146010D745359555D581A575B59340 wrote: Correct, we don't have the money if he just hits free agency. I get that. That isn't what I said. Again, I don't know if there were ever talks, but Cole should have signed to get through his arbitration years and one year of free agency. That would have been the smart move in my opinion.
Yes, he is the Pirates biggest chip to deal. I disagree about him not being elite. He is very, very good. I don't really believe in the rotation slotting, but he would be every teams' top one - three pitcher depending on the team.
One more thing: His team has missed the Playoffs once in his career. No team has made the playoffs more than his current team since he has joined the league.
Forget it - Boras does not do this kind of deal. And even if he did, my guess is it would cost a lot closer to $40M than $30M. Boras won't even take the phone call the Pirates are not going to make.
Bryce Harper signed a one year deal for 2018. His agent is Scott Boras.
Yes, he is the Pirates biggest chip to deal. I disagree about him not being elite. He is very, very good. I don't really believe in the rotation slotting, but he would be every teams' top one - three pitcher depending on the team.
One more thing: His team has missed the Playoffs once in his career. No team has made the playoffs more than his current team since he has joined the league.
Forget it - Boras does not do this kind of deal. And even if he did, my guess is it would cost a lot closer to $40M than $30M. Boras won't even take the phone call the Pirates are not going to make.
Bryce Harper signed a one year deal for 2018. His agent is Scott Boras.
-
Bobster21
July 31 trade deadline
78737B777273682D2B5C657D747373327F731C0 wrote: Correct, we don't have the money if he just hits free agency. I get that. That isn't what I said. Again, I don't know if there were ever talks, but Cole should have signed to get through his arbitration years and one year of free agency. That would have been the smart move in my opinion.
Yes, he is the Pirates biggest chip to deal. I disagree about him not being elite. He is very, very good. I don't really believe in the rotation slotting, but he would be every teams' top one - three pitcher depending on the team.
One more thing: His team has missed the Playoffs once in his career. No team has made the playoffs more than his current team since he has joined the league.
Forget it - Boras does not do this kind of deal. And even if he did, my guess is it would cost a lot closer to $40M than $30M. Boras won't even take the phone call the Pirates are not going to make.
Bryce Harper signed a one year deal for 2018. His agent is Scott Boras.
Yes, but.......
The Nats are a far more free spending club. They rank #9 in MLB in payroll. They gave Harper 21.6 million for 1 year. The Pirates rank #24. The next huge contract they give will be the first. Harper is signing for another year with a legitimate contender. The Nats have the best record in the NL and 2nd best in MLB. They are coming off a 95-win season and won their division last year. Cole would be signing for another year with a team that seems to be headed in the wrong direction with a 78-win season last year and probably worse this year.
Yes, he is the Pirates biggest chip to deal. I disagree about him not being elite. He is very, very good. I don't really believe in the rotation slotting, but he would be every teams' top one - three pitcher depending on the team.
One more thing: His team has missed the Playoffs once in his career. No team has made the playoffs more than his current team since he has joined the league.
Forget it - Boras does not do this kind of deal. And even if he did, my guess is it would cost a lot closer to $40M than $30M. Boras won't even take the phone call the Pirates are not going to make.
Bryce Harper signed a one year deal for 2018. His agent is Scott Boras.
Yes, but.......
The Nats are a far more free spending club. They rank #9 in MLB in payroll. They gave Harper 21.6 million for 1 year. The Pirates rank #24. The next huge contract they give will be the first. Harper is signing for another year with a legitimate contender. The Nats have the best record in the NL and 2nd best in MLB. They are coming off a 95-win season and won their division last year. Cole would be signing for another year with a team that seems to be headed in the wrong direction with a 78-win season last year and probably worse this year.
July 31 trade deadline
Depends on what you mean by 'this type of contract.' 2018 would have been Harper's third trip through arbitration. This deal was reached because Washington was concerned arbitrators might award 28 plus million if Harper is MVP again. This does *not* cover a free agent year. Harper is rumored to be looking for 400MM over ten years. So Boras does make deals that a pretty rich and don't hurt his client getting even more the next year.
July 31 trade deadline
I wonder how the Pirates are taking into account Cole's potential arbitration contract. Dallas Kuechel and Chris Tillman avoided arbitration with nine and ten million dollar contracts coming into 2017. Given Cole's performance so far, that would seem to be the floor for him. How high will his value go? Ten, twelve, fourteen million? Are the Pirates preparing to pay that much or are they already thinking about "financial flexibility"?
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
July 31 trade deadline
2022383E284D0 wrote: Depends on what you mean by 'this type of contract.' 2018 would have been Harper's third trip through arbitration. This deal was reached because Washington was concerned arbitrators might award 28 plus million if Harper is MVP again. This does *not* cover a free agent year. Harper is rumored to be looking for 400MM over ten years. So Boras does make deals that a pretty rich and don't hurt his client getting even more the next year.
Boras accepted a deal that could be less for the guarantee now. That is my point about Cole. There should have been extension talks after last year. Cole, like Harper, will still get to be a free agent and get his large deal.
Boras accepted a deal that could be less for the guarantee now. That is my point about Cole. There should have been extension talks after last year. Cole, like Harper, will still get to be a free agent and get his large deal.
July 31 trade deadline
545F575B5E5F440107704951585F5F1E535F300 wrote: Correct, we don't have the money if he just hits free agency. I get that. That isn't what I said. Again, I don't know if there were ever talks, but Cole should have signed to get through his arbitration years and one year of free agency. That would have been the smart move in my opinion.
Yes, he is the Pirates biggest chip to deal. I disagree about him not being elite. He is very, very good. I don't really believe in the rotation slotting, but he would be every teams' top one - three pitcher depending on the team.
One more thing: His team has missed the Playoffs once in his career. No team has made the playoffs more than his current team since he has joined the league.
Forget it - Boras does not do this kind of deal. And even if he did, my guess is it would cost a lot closer to $40M than $30M. Boras won't even take the phone call the Pirates are not going to make.
Bryce Harper signed a one year deal for 2018. His agent is Scott Boras.
and ... Washington's owner will pay the price to win a title. So ...
Yes, he is the Pirates biggest chip to deal. I disagree about him not being elite. He is very, very good. I don't really believe in the rotation slotting, but he would be every teams' top one - three pitcher depending on the team.
One more thing: His team has missed the Playoffs once in his career. No team has made the playoffs more than his current team since he has joined the league.
Forget it - Boras does not do this kind of deal. And even if he did, my guess is it would cost a lot closer to $40M than $30M. Boras won't even take the phone call the Pirates are not going to make.
Bryce Harper signed a one year deal for 2018. His agent is Scott Boras.
and ... Washington's owner will pay the price to win a title. So ...
July 31 trade deadline
6F646C6065647F3A3C4B726A6364642568640B0 wrote: Depends on what you mean by 'this type of contract.' 2018 would have been Harper's third trip through arbitration. This deal was reached because Washington was concerned arbitrators might award 28 plus million if Harper is MVP again. This does *not* cover a free agent year. Harper is rumored to be looking for 400MM over ten years. So Boras does make deals that a pretty rich and don't hurt his client getting even more the next year.
Boras accepted a deal that could be less for the guarantee now. That is my point about Cole. There should have been extension talks after last year. Cole, like Harper, will still get to be a free agent and get his large deal.
LOL ... you still think Cole wants to stay here? Dude, I think you really need to come to grips on this. He is gone once he becomes a FA. I'm sure he wants to win a title, something that won't happen here. Trading him at the deadline is the best possible scenario, which will give us a boatload of a return since pitching is at a premium and he is controlled for a few more years. Not rocket science.
Boras accepted a deal that could be less for the guarantee now. That is my point about Cole. There should have been extension talks after last year. Cole, like Harper, will still get to be a free agent and get his large deal.
LOL ... you still think Cole wants to stay here? Dude, I think you really need to come to grips on this. He is gone once he becomes a FA. I'm sure he wants to win a title, something that won't happen here. Trading him at the deadline is the best possible scenario, which will give us a boatload of a return since pitching is at a premium and he is controlled for a few more years. Not rocket science.