It is crazy that you didn't recognize the difference Martin made for the Pirates. My opinion will not change as I have explained it many, many times to you.
Batting .270 as a SS is above average in my opinion. Wilson even batted over .300 one year and another year in the .290's. I also said he wasn't great, but he he held his own. If he didn't hit, he would have been replaced. He hit enough to stick around.
I didn't really think I had to explain it to you why players stick around. Pedro Alvarez gets $5 million a year and Sean Rodriguez gets $2.5 million a year. I wonder why teams would rather pay for Alvarez than Rodriguez? Defensive specialists are rare in today's game. Like I said, there are some, but still rare.
I can't explain it anymore. Sorry.
catcher.
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
NCBuccofan
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:26 pm
catcher.
79727A767372692C2A5D647C757272337E721D0 wrote: It is crazy that you didn't recognize the difference Martin made for the Pirates. My opinion will not change as I have explained it many, many times to you.
Batting .270 as a SS is above average in my opinion. Wilson even batted over .300 one year and another year in the .290's. I also said he wasn't great, but he he held his own. If he didn't hit, he would have been replaced. He hit enough to stick around.
I didn't really think I had to explain it to you why players stick around. Pedro Alvarez gets $5 million a year and Sean Rodriguez gets $2.5 million a year. I wonder why teams would rather pay for Alvarez than Rodriguez? Defensive specialists are rare in today's game. Like I said, there are some, but still rare.
I can't explain it anymore. Sorry.
I never said Martin did not contribute. Not once. You are making him out to be the sole reason, and pointing incorrectly to his hitting being a factor.
Jack Wilson was not an average hitter. Just stop.
Alvarez is a platoon DH, and not a good one. He is a great example of how you need to be able to field to play.
Rodriguez is a bench player that can play solid defense at a few places. This season is the first time he has been above average. How on Earth does that support what you are saying?
Batting .270 as a SS is above average in my opinion. Wilson even batted over .300 one year and another year in the .290's. I also said he wasn't great, but he he held his own. If he didn't hit, he would have been replaced. He hit enough to stick around.
I didn't really think I had to explain it to you why players stick around. Pedro Alvarez gets $5 million a year and Sean Rodriguez gets $2.5 million a year. I wonder why teams would rather pay for Alvarez than Rodriguez? Defensive specialists are rare in today's game. Like I said, there are some, but still rare.
I can't explain it anymore. Sorry.
I never said Martin did not contribute. Not once. You are making him out to be the sole reason, and pointing incorrectly to his hitting being a factor.
Jack Wilson was not an average hitter. Just stop.
Alvarez is a platoon DH, and not a good one. He is a great example of how you need to be able to field to play.
Rodriguez is a bench player that can play solid defense at a few places. This season is the first time he has been above average. How on Earth does that support what you are saying?
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
catcher.
Wow man, wow!
I never said Martin was a sole reason. Not once. You just think I am saying that for some reason. Others even stepped in and tried to explain it to you. This thread is about Catchers (well, it used to be). Martin is a Catcher.
Again, what is average to you? How is .270 not average? Wilson was not a great hitter (I did say that a few times), but he held his own to keep his job.
Alvarez is getting paid double than the great glove, Rodriguez? I think Rodriguez is great on defense and that still has him on the bench the majority of the time. That is how it supports my case!
Bye!
I never said Martin was a sole reason. Not once. You just think I am saying that for some reason. Others even stepped in and tried to explain it to you. This thread is about Catchers (well, it used to be). Martin is a Catcher.
Again, what is average to you? How is .270 not average? Wilson was not a great hitter (I did say that a few times), but he held his own to keep his job.
Alvarez is getting paid double than the great glove, Rodriguez? I think Rodriguez is great on defense and that still has him on the bench the majority of the time. That is how it supports my case!
Bye!
-
NCBuccofan
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:26 pm
catcher.
212A222E2B2A317472053C242D2A2A6B262A450 wrote: Wow man, wow!
I never said Martin was a sole reason. Not once. You just think I am saying that for some reason. Others even stepped in and tried to explain it to you. This thread is about Catchers (well, it used to be). Martin is a Catcher.
Again, what is average to you? How is .270 not average? Wilson was not a great hitter (I did say that a few times), but he held his own to keep his job.
Alvarez is getting paid double than the great glove, Rodriguez? I think Rodriguez is great on defense and that still has him on the bench the majority of the time. That is how it supports my case!
Bye!
You just asked if the Pirates made the playoffs with other catchers.
So batting average is all that you need to determine how good a hitter is? How is Alvarez any good then? Well he is not, but you seem to think he is.
What great glove is Alvarez getting paid double? No one said Rodriguez was a great glove, except for you...but you also think McCutchen is above average. Rodriguez is not a great glove. Rodriguez is outhitting Alvarez by a longshot.
I wish someone told me how to block you when you were making the misogynist comments and blaming rape victims for ruining the lives of rapist. Thankfully your baseball commentary is not nearly as offensive.
I never said Martin was a sole reason. Not once. You just think I am saying that for some reason. Others even stepped in and tried to explain it to you. This thread is about Catchers (well, it used to be). Martin is a Catcher.
Again, what is average to you? How is .270 not average? Wilson was not a great hitter (I did say that a few times), but he held his own to keep his job.
Alvarez is getting paid double than the great glove, Rodriguez? I think Rodriguez is great on defense and that still has him on the bench the majority of the time. That is how it supports my case!
Bye!
You just asked if the Pirates made the playoffs with other catchers.
So batting average is all that you need to determine how good a hitter is? How is Alvarez any good then? Well he is not, but you seem to think he is.
What great glove is Alvarez getting paid double? No one said Rodriguez was a great glove, except for you...but you also think McCutchen is above average. Rodriguez is not a great glove. Rodriguez is outhitting Alvarez by a longshot.
I wish someone told me how to block you when you were making the misogynist comments and blaming rape victims for ruining the lives of rapist. Thankfully your baseball commentary is not nearly as offensive.
-
Wrathchild
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:23 pm
catcher.
6B66675046464A43444B250 wrote: You still need to hit in the majors to stay in the majors. It is a lot easier to catch a baseball than hit a baseball.
Bats always find a position, gloves go away if they can't hit. There are many examples just on the Pirates in recent years to prove that.
Catcher is a little different, but there is still a reason why Chris Stewart isn't starting somewhere. He batted under .220 the previous seasons before joining the Pirates. It is also not a coincidence that Eric Fryer is playing more this year than he has before. The guy is hitting.
I will stand by how Martin was special to the Pirates. He controlled the running game and had some huge hits. His bat was even better in 2014 with his stellar defense. I also didn't say he was the only reason they made the playoffs, but he was a big part of the team. I don't think they would have made the playoffs without Martin.
I already said catcher matters more. Acting like all you have to do is catch the ball to play defense is an outlandish over simplification. I cannot believe you typed that out.
Martin is actually another awful example for your idea about guys that hit will find a spot. Martin was very pedestrian his first season with the Pirates. His amazing defense alone is what made the impact on the 2013 team.
Jack Wilson played for years without hitting much at all. Why was he always playing?
Tom Prince managed to stay in the majors for 17 years and could not hit at all.
If you do not have a position to play, how exactly are you going to play in the majors? There are only 15 DH jobs.
Eric Fryer got DFA's by the Cards when he was hitting. Terrible example for your cause.
Francisco Liriano added to the team, Pedro playing solid defense at third with solid offense, McCutchen winning the MVP...these things were just secondary to Martin? He was part of it, but he was not the sole reason at all.
Why are you spinning my last comment? I never said that Liriano or Alvarez (defense?, led the league in errors) or McCutchen didn't help the Pirates make the playoffs. Many factors involved, but Martin was a big factor TOO. I stand by my comment that they don't make the Playoffs without him TOO.
Maybe because I directly asked you if he was the reason or not, and you said he was.
Martin also did not hit in 2013, which you also seemed to be claiming. He was not an all around catcher that year.
That's not really accurate. Martin's batting average was only .226 but he had an OPS+ of 100. His WAR was divided equally between offense and defense that year.
Umm, not it was not. His Offensive runs above average was -.1. His Defensive runs above average was 22.7.
His value in 2013 was solely defense.
100 OPS+ was average, even for a catcher. His defense was not average.
You don't understand the statistical measures and it's causing you to make the wrong conclusions. A 100 OPS+ means the player was thoroughly average offensively across the board normalized for era and ballpark. That player is way above replacement value especially if he's a catcher. His offensive runs above average was basically zero because he wasn't above average in MLB. That doesn't mean he didn't provide value. Defensive runs saved is a different type of statistical measurement. It tries to quantify total value, not a value versus other players in MLB. 22.7 defensive runs saved equals about 2.5 wins. Average offensive output also equals about 2.5 wins.
Bats always find a position, gloves go away if they can't hit. There are many examples just on the Pirates in recent years to prove that.
Catcher is a little different, but there is still a reason why Chris Stewart isn't starting somewhere. He batted under .220 the previous seasons before joining the Pirates. It is also not a coincidence that Eric Fryer is playing more this year than he has before. The guy is hitting.
I will stand by how Martin was special to the Pirates. He controlled the running game and had some huge hits. His bat was even better in 2014 with his stellar defense. I also didn't say he was the only reason they made the playoffs, but he was a big part of the team. I don't think they would have made the playoffs without Martin.
I already said catcher matters more. Acting like all you have to do is catch the ball to play defense is an outlandish over simplification. I cannot believe you typed that out.
Martin is actually another awful example for your idea about guys that hit will find a spot. Martin was very pedestrian his first season with the Pirates. His amazing defense alone is what made the impact on the 2013 team.
Jack Wilson played for years without hitting much at all. Why was he always playing?
Tom Prince managed to stay in the majors for 17 years and could not hit at all.
If you do not have a position to play, how exactly are you going to play in the majors? There are only 15 DH jobs.
Eric Fryer got DFA's by the Cards when he was hitting. Terrible example for your cause.
Francisco Liriano added to the team, Pedro playing solid defense at third with solid offense, McCutchen winning the MVP...these things were just secondary to Martin? He was part of it, but he was not the sole reason at all.
Why are you spinning my last comment? I never said that Liriano or Alvarez (defense?, led the league in errors) or McCutchen didn't help the Pirates make the playoffs. Many factors involved, but Martin was a big factor TOO. I stand by my comment that they don't make the Playoffs without him TOO.
Maybe because I directly asked you if he was the reason or not, and you said he was.
Martin also did not hit in 2013, which you also seemed to be claiming. He was not an all around catcher that year.
That's not really accurate. Martin's batting average was only .226 but he had an OPS+ of 100. His WAR was divided equally between offense and defense that year.
Umm, not it was not. His Offensive runs above average was -.1. His Defensive runs above average was 22.7.
His value in 2013 was solely defense.
100 OPS+ was average, even for a catcher. His defense was not average.
You don't understand the statistical measures and it's causing you to make the wrong conclusions. A 100 OPS+ means the player was thoroughly average offensively across the board normalized for era and ballpark. That player is way above replacement value especially if he's a catcher. His offensive runs above average was basically zero because he wasn't above average in MLB. That doesn't mean he didn't provide value. Defensive runs saved is a different type of statistical measurement. It tries to quantify total value, not a value versus other players in MLB. 22.7 defensive runs saved equals about 2.5 wins. Average offensive output also equals about 2.5 wins.
-
NCBuccofan
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:26 pm
catcher.
59525A565352490C0A7D445C555252135E523D0 wrote: Good, please block me. I would love it if you went away. You are just twisting everything I say and trying to catch me in saying something.
I never blamed a rape victim. You spun it that way.
Like I said. BYE!
Says the guy that is making up things never said by anyone.
I never blamed a rape victim. You spun it that way.
Like I said. BYE!
Says the guy that is making up things never said by anyone.