1E0E0F382E2E224D0 wrote: Kuhl did not appear to need help in the 7th. that wasted Rivero who could have pitched the 8th instead of Hudson and Nicasio. And of course with the game on the line in the 8th, Watson, arguably their best reliever, cannot be used to try to keep the lead from evaporating because, as Hurdle explained, he needs saves to increase his worth to some other team in his free agency year next year. And in today's bizzaro world of MLB, this is considered normal managing.
Hudson was brought in to Hold. I have no problem with not using Watson. Kuhl might have been tired, Stewart might have pulled him (who knows?).
Hudson blew it. The Nicasio made it worse. I don't blame Hurdle for using his set up man in the 8th inning.
No, Clint blew it too. No way Nicasio should have been pitching to Ramirez. One of a series of "bad plays" that combined to gift this game to the Sox.
This should be in the W column.
I rarely agree with Dog at all, but I do with this one. Yes, it should have been in the win column. It's convenient to always blame Hurdle in defeat when a loss happens. It seems like its always the thing to do. I think this was someone else than Hurdle today. This simply isn't a good team regardless.
Nicasio was a victim not a goat.
That is fine to think that way. However, this wasn't a blame it on Hurdle loss. There were other factors here than Clint. Pittsburgh is generally an organization that makes a starter go 6 innings and then turn it to the bullpen. Well, Kuhl did just that. Pitched well for 6.1 innings and then turn it to the pen. This was a failure on different levels then Hurdle.
Yeah .. I mean Hurdle did nothing outrageously bad in the game. It was pretty much a Starling Marte meltdown with some bad luck mixed in. He just has to catch the lazy fly ball to center or the little more difficult one that was better hit or just make a good throw to 2nd base to get the force. One of those 3 probably does it. Plus he was caught stealing and fanned with 1st and 3rd 1 out.
There is a fine line between winning and losing with this team. It's becoming evident that every facet must be right in order for this team to secure a win. Right now, this is a bad team on so many levels. There is some talent, but not the talent that will compete for a title. Too many questions remain and no answers seem to be evident. I said this in another thread that the lack of heart at times with this team and just the continuous stupid bonehead plays are really starting to get tiresome with this team. At some point you can't keep defending this team being lazy and just flat out stupid every game.
4/13 Game Thread - Back to Boston
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SteadyFreddy
4/13 Game Thread - Back to Boston
676B6A3138313934332C36010 wrote: Four losses in a row, and now a trip to Chicago. The Bucs could be digging themselves a very big hole. Nice game from Chad Kuhl,but the bullpen cannot hold the lead. Having to face Hendricks, Arietta and Lester this weekend as well is a recipe for disaster as bad as this offense has looked lately. The Pirates really need Cole, Glasnow, and Taillon to step and pitch well this weekend if the Pirates are gonna have any chance to win a game or two this weekend.
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massbucsfan
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:39 am
4/13 Game Thread - Back to Boston
Must admit I left in the top of the 8th so I didn't miss the train home .kuhl pitched really well umpire sucked but I'm sorry this is gonna be a loooooooong year
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Bobster21
4/13 Game Thread - Back to Boston
49424A464342591C1A6D544C454242034E422D0 wrote: Should have stayed with Hudson. But I didn't see anything, just watching the box score.
Hudson was having a terrible tine just trying to find the zip code for each batter. Watching the game pitch by pitch I was desperate to get Hudson out of there.
Hudson was having a terrible tine just trying to find the zip code for each batter. Watching the game pitch by pitch I was desperate to get Hudson out of there.
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Bobster21
4/13 Game Thread - Back to Boston
4353526573737F100 wrote: Kuhl did not appear to need help in the 7th. that wasted Rivero who could have pitched the 8th instead of Hudson and Nicasio. And of course with the game on the line in the 8th, Watson, arguably their best reliever, cannot be used to try to keep the lead from evaporating because, as Hurdle explained, he needs saves to increase his worth to some other team in his free agency year next year. And in today's bizzaro world of MLB, this is considered normal managing.
Hudson was brought in to Hold. I have no problem with not using Watson. Kuhl might have been tired, Stewart might have pulled him (who knows?).
Hudson blew it. The Nicasio made it worse. I don't blame Hurdle for using his set up man in the 8th inning.
No, Clint blew it too. No way Nicasio should have been pitching to Ramirez. One of a series of "bad plays" that combined to gift this game to the Sox.
This should be in the W column.
I rarely agree with Dog at all, but I do with this one. Yes, it should have been in the win column. It's convenient to always blame Hurdle in defeat when a loss happens. It seems like its always the thing to do. I think this was someone else than Hurdle today. This simply isn't a good team regardless.
Nicasio was a victim not a goat.
That is fine to think that way. However, this wasn't a blame it on Hurdle loss. There were other factors here than Clint. Pittsburgh is generally an organization that makes a starter go 6 innings and then turn it to the bullpen. Well, Kuhl did just that. Pitched well for 6.1 innings and then turn it to the pen. This was a failure on different levels then Hurdle.
It's easy to say it wasn't Hurdle's fault because if the players had performed to expectations the game would have been won. But if that's the case, no manager has ever done a poor job in the history of MLB. Today, Hurdle replaced a starter after a ground ball to 3B at 6.1 innings who was dominating the Red Sox on 92 pitches. That led to a bullpen meltdown that should not have been chanced. Sure, Hudson and Nicasio should not have blown the 8th inning. That's on them. But Rivero should not have been needlessly used in the 7th. Rivero could have been used in the 8th instead of the guys who blew it. The mgr's job is to put his players in the best chance to win. He removed a dominant starter needlessly. He used one of his 2 best relievers when he wasn't needed. He turned a make or break situation over to his 3rd and 4th best relievers because he needlessly used his #2 and refuses to use his #1 unless there is a save stat to be gained.
Hudson was brought in to Hold. I have no problem with not using Watson. Kuhl might have been tired, Stewart might have pulled him (who knows?).
Hudson blew it. The Nicasio made it worse. I don't blame Hurdle for using his set up man in the 8th inning.
No, Clint blew it too. No way Nicasio should have been pitching to Ramirez. One of a series of "bad plays" that combined to gift this game to the Sox.
This should be in the W column.
I rarely agree with Dog at all, but I do with this one. Yes, it should have been in the win column. It's convenient to always blame Hurdle in defeat when a loss happens. It seems like its always the thing to do. I think this was someone else than Hurdle today. This simply isn't a good team regardless.
Nicasio was a victim not a goat.
That is fine to think that way. However, this wasn't a blame it on Hurdle loss. There were other factors here than Clint. Pittsburgh is generally an organization that makes a starter go 6 innings and then turn it to the bullpen. Well, Kuhl did just that. Pitched well for 6.1 innings and then turn it to the pen. This was a failure on different levels then Hurdle.
It's easy to say it wasn't Hurdle's fault because if the players had performed to expectations the game would have been won. But if that's the case, no manager has ever done a poor job in the history of MLB. Today, Hurdle replaced a starter after a ground ball to 3B at 6.1 innings who was dominating the Red Sox on 92 pitches. That led to a bullpen meltdown that should not have been chanced. Sure, Hudson and Nicasio should not have blown the 8th inning. That's on them. But Rivero should not have been needlessly used in the 7th. Rivero could have been used in the 8th instead of the guys who blew it. The mgr's job is to put his players in the best chance to win. He removed a dominant starter needlessly. He used one of his 2 best relievers when he wasn't needed. He turned a make or break situation over to his 3rd and 4th best relievers because he needlessly used his #2 and refuses to use his #1 unless there is a save stat to be gained.
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rucker59@gmail.com
4/13 Game Thread - Back to Boston
Things that linger and leave a bad taste:
Questionable use of the bullpen beginning with game 1 of the Reds series.
An outfield realignment that for some unknown reason looks like a train wreck.
The "heart" with which the OF plays already being questioned (which is how the 2016 season ended).
Very questionable game management (pulling a dominate starter at 6.1 and bringing in Nicasio to face Ramirez just last night).
Maybe none of this is legit, but I know this is the kind of stuff that gets a manager with an underachieving team fired. No one is getting fired anytime soon, but if this team is 20 games under .500 going into July and attendance dropping materially, heads will roll and Client's will be the first to go.
Neil's would be next in line.
These are the games that get people fired.
Questionable use of the bullpen beginning with game 1 of the Reds series.
An outfield realignment that for some unknown reason looks like a train wreck.
The "heart" with which the OF plays already being questioned (which is how the 2016 season ended).
Very questionable game management (pulling a dominate starter at 6.1 and bringing in Nicasio to face Ramirez just last night).
Maybe none of this is legit, but I know this is the kind of stuff that gets a manager with an underachieving team fired. No one is getting fired anytime soon, but if this team is 20 games under .500 going into July and attendance dropping materially, heads will roll and Client's will be the first to go.
Neil's would be next in line.
These are the games that get people fired.
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Bobster21
4/13 Game Thread - Back to Boston
7473656D6374333F46616B676F6A2865696B060 wrote: Things that linger and leave a bad taste:
Questionable use of the bullpen beginning with game 1 of the Reds series.
An outfield realignment that for some unknown reason looks like a train wreck.
The "heart" with which the OF plays already being questioned (which is how the 2016 season ended).
Very questionable game management (pulling a dominate starter at 6.1 and bringing in Nicasio to face Ramirez just last night).
Maybe none of this is legit, but I know this is the kind of stuff that gets a manager with an underachieving team fired. No one is getting fired anytime soon, but if this team is 20 games under .500 going into July and attendance dropping materially, heads will roll and Client's will be the first to go.
Neil's would be next in line.
These are the games that get people fired.
I've said many times this Pirate team needs a very good manager. I know those types are few and far between. Most simply fall in line just like Hurdle and use the accepted formulas for their "decision-making." (And it's not really making decisions other than to decide when it's time to insert the formula.) Nutting's tight wallet is never going to allow the Pirates to have more talent than their competition. So they need an outstanding manager to best use what they have. Hurdle's not that guy.
And before someone points out 3 playoff appearances, they need to go further than they went and don't look close to getting back even that far. And in Colorado, Hurdle had only 1 winning season in 8 years. That 2007 team (which was only 3 games over .500 entering September) went to the WS where they got swept. And despite getting to the WS, Hurdle was fired 46 games into the 2009 season. So some amount of success does not warrant a job for life.
Questionable use of the bullpen beginning with game 1 of the Reds series.
An outfield realignment that for some unknown reason looks like a train wreck.
The "heart" with which the OF plays already being questioned (which is how the 2016 season ended).
Very questionable game management (pulling a dominate starter at 6.1 and bringing in Nicasio to face Ramirez just last night).
Maybe none of this is legit, but I know this is the kind of stuff that gets a manager with an underachieving team fired. No one is getting fired anytime soon, but if this team is 20 games under .500 going into July and attendance dropping materially, heads will roll and Client's will be the first to go.
Neil's would be next in line.
These are the games that get people fired.
I've said many times this Pirate team needs a very good manager. I know those types are few and far between. Most simply fall in line just like Hurdle and use the accepted formulas for their "decision-making." (And it's not really making decisions other than to decide when it's time to insert the formula.) Nutting's tight wallet is never going to allow the Pirates to have more talent than their competition. So they need an outstanding manager to best use what they have. Hurdle's not that guy.
And before someone points out 3 playoff appearances, they need to go further than they went and don't look close to getting back even that far. And in Colorado, Hurdle had only 1 winning season in 8 years. That 2007 team (which was only 3 games over .500 entering September) went to the WS where they got swept. And despite getting to the WS, Hurdle was fired 46 games into the 2009 season. So some amount of success does not warrant a job for life.
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rucker59@gmail.com
4/13 Game Thread - Back to Boston
496469787F6E79393A0B0 wrote: Things that linger and leave a bad taste:
Questionable use of the bullpen beginning with game 1 of the Reds series.
An outfield realignment that for some unknown reason looks like a train wreck.
The "heart" with which the OF plays already being questioned (which is how the 2016 season ended).
Very questionable game management (pulling a dominate starter at 6.1 and bringing in Nicasio to face Ramirez just last night).
Maybe none of this is legit, but I know this is the kind of stuff that gets a manager with an underachieving team fired. No one is getting fired anytime soon, but if this team is 20 games under .500 going into July and attendance dropping materially, heads will roll and Client's will be the first to go.
Neil's would be next in line.
These are the games that get people fired.
I've said many times this Pirate team needs a very good manager. I know those types are few and far between. Most simply fall in line just like Hurdle and use the accepted formulas for their "decision-making." (And it's not really making decisions other than to decide when it's time to insert the formula.) Nutting's tight wallet is never going to allow the Pirates to have more talent than their competition. So they need an outstanding manager to best use what they have. Hurdle's not that guy.
And before someone points out 3 playoff appearances, they need to go further than they went and don't look close to getting back even that far. And in Colorado, Hurdle had only 1 winning season in 8 years. That 2007 team (which was only 3 games over .500 entering September) went to the WS where they got swept. And despite getting to the WS, Hurdle was fired 46 games into the 2009 season. So some amount of success does not warrant a job for life.
I considered Clint an okay game manager and a great manager of players. But that started changing last year. Marte especially might get Clint fired.
Questionable use of the bullpen beginning with game 1 of the Reds series.
An outfield realignment that for some unknown reason looks like a train wreck.
The "heart" with which the OF plays already being questioned (which is how the 2016 season ended).
Very questionable game management (pulling a dominate starter at 6.1 and bringing in Nicasio to face Ramirez just last night).
Maybe none of this is legit, but I know this is the kind of stuff that gets a manager with an underachieving team fired. No one is getting fired anytime soon, but if this team is 20 games under .500 going into July and attendance dropping materially, heads will roll and Client's will be the first to go.
Neil's would be next in line.
These are the games that get people fired.
I've said many times this Pirate team needs a very good manager. I know those types are few and far between. Most simply fall in line just like Hurdle and use the accepted formulas for their "decision-making." (And it's not really making decisions other than to decide when it's time to insert the formula.) Nutting's tight wallet is never going to allow the Pirates to have more talent than their competition. So they need an outstanding manager to best use what they have. Hurdle's not that guy.
And before someone points out 3 playoff appearances, they need to go further than they went and don't look close to getting back even that far. And in Colorado, Hurdle had only 1 winning season in 8 years. That 2007 team (which was only 3 games over .500 entering September) went to the WS where they got swept. And despite getting to the WS, Hurdle was fired 46 games into the 2009 season. So some amount of success does not warrant a job for life.
I considered Clint an okay game manager and a great manager of players. But that started changing last year. Marte especially might get Clint fired.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
4/13 Game Thread - Back to Boston
072A27363120377774450 wrote: Should have stayed with Hudson. But I didn't see anything, just watching the box score.
Hudson was having a terrible tine just trying to find the zip code for each batter. Watching the game pitch by pitch I was desperate to get Hudson out of there.
So, if Hudson was brought in the 7th, it would have been different? That would have saved the second best reliever for the 8th (Rivero). What says that Hudson wouldn't have blown the 7th?
Hudson was having a terrible tine just trying to find the zip code for each batter. Watching the game pitch by pitch I was desperate to get Hudson out of there.
So, if Hudson was brought in the 7th, it would have been different? That would have saved the second best reliever for the 8th (Rivero). What says that Hudson wouldn't have blown the 7th?
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Bobster21
4/13 Game Thread - Back to Boston
Kuhl didn't need help in the 7th. That's what started the domino effect.