7F4A5D5D566F5D5D56515D380 wrote: For our sake, I sure hope that The Golden Boy does better with hiring the new and improved hitting coach than he did when he hired the manager and pitchiing coach.
NH's last full season pitching staff posted a 5.18 ERA. BC's current squad is at 5.05. That's with 3 NH holdovers in the rotation. Already looks to be an improvement to me...and that's subtracting Taillon, Musgrove, Williams, and Archer. That's sounds like improvement to me with his guy.
The offense is a tick over a run per game worse than 2019. That sounds like regression to me with the guy he just fired. Sure you can whine about Bell being gone....after all 2019 was his big year. But what happened to Bell in 2020? Why has he found his power stroke once again away from the NH guy? And this season he had a healthy Polanco, care to explain what happened there?
Looks like BC's hires are making better turds from a lot of the crap NH left behind.
Re: Pirates Fire Eckstein
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Re: Pirates Fire Eckstein
Our pitching- superb as it may be- is still ranked 28th in MLB by ERA.
"Hitting"- as remarkable as it may be- is still ranked 27th in MLB by overall BA.
They both stink, fairly equally. Neither the now, former hitting coach nor the still employed-because Cherington hired him- pitching coach impress me.
"Hitting"- as remarkable as it may be- is still ranked 27th in MLB by overall BA.
They both stink, fairly equally. Neither the now, former hitting coach nor the still employed-because Cherington hired him- pitching coach impress me.
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Bobster21
Re: Pirates Fire Eckstein
As fans it's hard to gauge coaches. The Pirates have very few legit MLB hitters and pitchers. So no batting or pitching coach is going to look good. OTOH if they're bad coaches it doesn't show because no one expects those players to perform well anyway. Also, coaches on talented teams are hard to assess. Leo Mazzone was always hailed as a great pitching coach with Atlanta when they had Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz. But not every Atlanta pitcher performed like those guys. Some came and went during the Mazzone years without being taught to be HOF pitchers by the coaching guru. When he went to Baltimore--who did not have Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz--he was fired after 2 seasons.
When a coach gets fired it can be any number of things. It can be behind the scenes problems that never get made public. It can be philosophical differences in how the coaching is being done. It can be the approach the coach takes in trying to get his points across. It can be the inevitable outcome of the team doing poorly and management wanting to give someone else a chance to coach before giving up on some of the players. If Eckstein was fired merely because the talent deprived Pirates generally don't hit well then Moran should be next since they don't pitch well either. But we're probably never gong to know precisely why Eckstein was fired.
When a coach gets fired it can be any number of things. It can be behind the scenes problems that never get made public. It can be philosophical differences in how the coaching is being done. It can be the approach the coach takes in trying to get his points across. It can be the inevitable outcome of the team doing poorly and management wanting to give someone else a chance to coach before giving up on some of the players. If Eckstein was fired merely because the talent deprived Pirates generally don't hit well then Moran should be next since they don't pitch well either. But we're probably never gong to know precisely why Eckstein was fired.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Re: Pirates Fire Eckstein
Your first couple of sentences was pretty much my point. We had Frazier and Reynolds, little else. Harry Houdini couldn't make Polanco a .300 hitter.
Mazzoni might have had a hand in developing Smoltz, who came to the Braves early on from Detroit. To your point, Steve Avery didn't fare as well, so he was dealt.
Cherington deserves to have his guys. I'm assuming that he and Eckstein didn't jell well enough.
Still, results are results. Neither our run generation nor our run prevention are any good.
I give no passes to anyone in the organization for it after this season ends. No excuses.
Mazzoni might have had a hand in developing Smoltz, who came to the Braves early on from Detroit. To your point, Steve Avery didn't fare as well, so he was dealt.
Cherington deserves to have his guys. I'm assuming that he and Eckstein didn't jell well enough.
Still, results are results. Neither our run generation nor our run prevention are any good.
I give no passes to anyone in the organization for it after this season ends. No excuses.
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Bobster21
Re: Pirates Fire Eckstein
073225252E1725252E2925400 wrote: Your first couple of sentences was pretty much my point. We had Frazier and Reynolds, little else. Harry Houdini couldn't make Polanco a .300 hitter.
Mazzoni might have had a hand in developing Smoltz, who came to the Braves early on from Detroit. To your point, Steve Avery didn't fare as well, so he was dealt.
Cherington deserves to have his guys. I'm assuming that he and Eckstein didn't jell well enough.
Still, results are results. Neither our run generation nor our run prevention are any good.
[highlight]I give no passes to anyone in the organization for it after this season ends. No excuses.[/highlight]
I'm on board with that. As bad as this season has been for the fans, I realize there was never a focus on making this team competitive. It was a lost cause. And while I don't expect the 2022 team to compete for anything, I do expect to see encouraging signs. I expect to see players coming up from the minors who are going to be part of a successful future if we are ever going to have a successful future. It's one thing not to coach Ka'ai Tom and Shea Spitzbarth into productive players. But the roster better start taking shape next year and if players being counted on for the future are underperforming (like Hayes this year) then the coaches become accountable. Cherington needs to start putting the pieces in place and that includes the manager and coaches.
Mazzoni might have had a hand in developing Smoltz, who came to the Braves early on from Detroit. To your point, Steve Avery didn't fare as well, so he was dealt.
Cherington deserves to have his guys. I'm assuming that he and Eckstein didn't jell well enough.
Still, results are results. Neither our run generation nor our run prevention are any good.
[highlight]I give no passes to anyone in the organization for it after this season ends. No excuses.[/highlight]
I'm on board with that. As bad as this season has been for the fans, I realize there was never a focus on making this team competitive. It was a lost cause. And while I don't expect the 2022 team to compete for anything, I do expect to see encouraging signs. I expect to see players coming up from the minors who are going to be part of a successful future if we are ever going to have a successful future. It's one thing not to coach Ka'ai Tom and Shea Spitzbarth into productive players. But the roster better start taking shape next year and if players being counted on for the future are underperforming (like Hayes this year) then the coaches become accountable. Cherington needs to start putting the pieces in place and that includes the manager and coaches.
Re: Pirates Fire Eckstein
152037373C0537373C3B37520 wrote: Your first couple of sentences was pretty much my point. We had Frazier and Reynolds, little else. Harry Houdini couldn't make Polanco a .300 hitter.
Mazzoni might have had a hand in developing Smoltz, who came to the Braves early on from Detroit. To your point, Steve Avery didn't fare as well, so he was dealt.
Cherington deserves to have his guys. I'm assuming that he and Eckstein didn't jell well enough.
Still, results are results. Neither our run generation nor our run prevention are any good.
I give no passes to anyone in the organization for it after this season ends. No excuses.
You give no coherent thoughts on any of it. No kidding nothing is good, but you STILL can't answer the question that always gets asked-what were you expecting this season? What exactly has NOT transpired that you are making such a ridiculous statement about BC being useless? What do you base this on? You ramble and bramble a lot, and make no sense. You claim coaches don't mean anything except when they do. They have nothing to work with, except when they do. They have no chance to win, yet you expect them to.
And you wonder why I keep saying you do nothing but talk in circles.
Mazzoni might have had a hand in developing Smoltz, who came to the Braves early on from Detroit. To your point, Steve Avery didn't fare as well, so he was dealt.
Cherington deserves to have his guys. I'm assuming that he and Eckstein didn't jell well enough.
Still, results are results. Neither our run generation nor our run prevention are any good.
I give no passes to anyone in the organization for it after this season ends. No excuses.
You give no coherent thoughts on any of it. No kidding nothing is good, but you STILL can't answer the question that always gets asked-what were you expecting this season? What exactly has NOT transpired that you are making such a ridiculous statement about BC being useless? What do you base this on? You ramble and bramble a lot, and make no sense. You claim coaches don't mean anything except when they do. They have nothing to work with, except when they do. They have no chance to win, yet you expect them to.
And you wonder why I keep saying you do nothing but talk in circles.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Re: Pirates Fire Eckstein
I've answered this before the season began.
Your insults have nothing to do with the matter at hand, the discussion of Eckstein's termination, and reflect more on you and your behavior than they do on anyone else.
Regards.
Your insults have nothing to do with the matter at hand, the discussion of Eckstein's termination, and reflect more on you and your behavior than they do on anyone else.
Regards.
Re: Pirates Fire Eckstein
Go figure. Cherington fills up the roster with minor league ballplayers and they fire Eckstein because the minor leaguers can't hit major league pitching. They should have kept Eckstein and fired Cherington.
Re: Pirates Fire Eckstein
Epstein fired due to philosophical differences, not any individual performances.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Re: Pirates Fire Eckstein
Differences, Philosophy-Style
Epstein: Give me guys who hit in 2021 and don't dump any who do.
Cherington: Bye.
Epstein: Give me guys who hit in 2021 and don't dump any who do.
Cherington: Bye.