Glasgow can run with a 10k/9 and a 4.5bb/9 and still would likely fail if he doesn't come out of camp with a slide step.
4,5,6? Steals a game will not work unless he's able to do in the majors what he has done in the minors and give up a crazy low number of hits.
His time to the plate is insane. Amazes me that the best management team in baseball didn't care about that enough to teach him a slide step yet
"But coach...That feels weird to me!"
"No problem Tyler, you can't get called up until you can do it becsuse, you know, 250 lb catchers on first base can walk to 2nd on you without it"
Starting Pitching Depth
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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rucker59@gmail.com
Starting Pitching Depth
28212938364C0 wrote: Glasgow can run with a 10k/9 and a 4.5bb/9 and still would likely fail if he doesn't come out of camp with a slide step.
4,5,6? Steals a game will not work unless he's able to do in the majors what he has done in the minors and give up a crazy low number of hits.
His time to the plate is insane. Amazes me that the best management team in baseball didn't care about that enough to teach him a slide step yet
"But coach...That feels weird to me!"
"No problem Tyler, you can't get called up until you can do it becsuse, you know, 250 lb catchers on first base can walk to 2nd on you without it"
Holding runners and a 3rd pitch - how in the world did Glasnow "get through" AAA without focusing on these issues?
The things that destroyed him in Pittsburgh last year are not going to be figured out in Pittsburgh: holding runners, a 3rd pitch is bad enough, but how is he going to work on control with only two pitches? My only real hope is that he was injured last year. Maybe his stuff will be outrageous this year. Even if it is, I fear he is destined for the pen.
I'll repeat my comment upthread: if Glasnow excels then the Pirates could have an outstanding season. If he struggles I think the Pirates will struggle unless the rest of the rotation surprises.
Or, the FO could step up and sign someone that would project to upgrade the rotation.....
4,5,6? Steals a game will not work unless he's able to do in the majors what he has done in the minors and give up a crazy low number of hits.
His time to the plate is insane. Amazes me that the best management team in baseball didn't care about that enough to teach him a slide step yet
"But coach...That feels weird to me!"
"No problem Tyler, you can't get called up until you can do it becsuse, you know, 250 lb catchers on first base can walk to 2nd on you without it"
Holding runners and a 3rd pitch - how in the world did Glasnow "get through" AAA without focusing on these issues?
The things that destroyed him in Pittsburgh last year are not going to be figured out in Pittsburgh: holding runners, a 3rd pitch is bad enough, but how is he going to work on control with only two pitches? My only real hope is that he was injured last year. Maybe his stuff will be outrageous this year. Even if it is, I fear he is destined for the pen.
I'll repeat my comment upthread: if Glasnow excels then the Pirates could have an outstanding season. If he struggles I think the Pirates will struggle unless the rest of the rotation surprises.
Or, the FO could step up and sign someone that would project to upgrade the rotation.....
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
Starting Pitching Depth
577A77666170672724150 wrote: I think Glasnow is going to need to pitch at the MLB level to learn how to do it. The lost season should've been used to help him learn to deal with and fight through struggling a bit. But maybe the FO thinks he's too fragile to overcome that adversity? And they probably saw themselves as being in the hunt. Hard to give a guy that on-the-job training in a playoff race.
Have to disagree. Galsnow's problems of throwing strikes and holding runners should be learned in the minors. Those aren't things that have to be learned vs MLB hitters.
But he isn't being challenged by those things in the minors. He dominated even at AAA after his adjustment period. Sure, a couple of his peripherals were hight (WHIP, etc). But he was not allowing runs to score. That's the point of the game. It is very clear that the minors are not a challenge for him any longer.
I doubt the org sees it as you do. His gaudy minor league ERA doesn't mean he's ready. He needs to work on control and holding runners and developing another pitch. Those things are going to challenge him wherever he works on it. In 2014, Polanco was tearing up AAA and everyone wanted him promoted, saying he had nothing left to prove in AAA. But NH kept saying there where still things Polanco needed to work on. Few believed him, attributing the delay to Super 2 status. But after Polanco was promoted, it was obvious he still had things to work on in AAA. It's a similar situation with Glasnow.
Problem is not sure he's learning anything in the minors. Like others have said how did he get this far without these basics being taught. He's been in the minors for years. Looks like the Pirates minor league coaching leaves a lot to be desired. It's probably not Tylers fault he doesn't know these basics, it's managements.
Have to disagree. Galsnow's problems of throwing strikes and holding runners should be learned in the minors. Those aren't things that have to be learned vs MLB hitters.
But he isn't being challenged by those things in the minors. He dominated even at AAA after his adjustment period. Sure, a couple of his peripherals were hight (WHIP, etc). But he was not allowing runs to score. That's the point of the game. It is very clear that the minors are not a challenge for him any longer.
I doubt the org sees it as you do. His gaudy minor league ERA doesn't mean he's ready. He needs to work on control and holding runners and developing another pitch. Those things are going to challenge him wherever he works on it. In 2014, Polanco was tearing up AAA and everyone wanted him promoted, saying he had nothing left to prove in AAA. But NH kept saying there where still things Polanco needed to work on. Few believed him, attributing the delay to Super 2 status. But after Polanco was promoted, it was obvious he still had things to work on in AAA. It's a similar situation with Glasnow.
Problem is not sure he's learning anything in the minors. Like others have said how did he get this far without these basics being taught. He's been in the minors for years. Looks like the Pirates minor league coaching leaves a lot to be desired. It's probably not Tylers fault he doesn't know these basics, it's managements.
Starting Pitching Depth
4A525057574051564B4A5C390 wrote: I think Glasnow is going to need to pitch at the MLB level to learn how to do it. The lost season should've been used to help him learn to deal with and fight through struggling a bit. But maybe the FO thinks he's too fragile to overcome that adversity? And they probably saw themselves as being in the hunt. Hard to give a guy that on-the-job training in a playoff race.
Have to disagree. Galsnow's problems of throwing strikes and holding runners should be learned in the minors. Those aren't things that have to be learned vs MLB hitters.
But he isn't being challenged by those things in the minors. He dominated even at AAA after his adjustment period. Sure, a couple of his peripherals were hight (WHIP, etc). But he was not allowing runs to score. That's the point of the game. It is very clear that the minors are not a challenge for him any longer.
I doubt the org sees it as you do. His gaudy minor league ERA doesn't mean he's ready. He needs to work on control and holding runners and developing another pitch. Those things are going to challenge him wherever he works on it. In 2014, Polanco was tearing up AAA and everyone wanted him promoted, saying he had nothing left to prove in AAA. But NH kept saying there where still things Polanco needed to work on. Few believed him, attributing the delay to Super 2 status. But after Polanco was promoted, it was obvious he still had things to work on in AAA. It's a similar situation with Glasnow.
Problem is not sure he's learning anything in the minors. Like others have said how did he get this far without these basics being taught. He's been in the minors for years. Looks like the Pirates minor league coaching leaves a lot to be desired. It's probably not Tylers fault he doesn't know these basics, it's managements.
Do you really think that the Pirates have a staff of people who don't teach this stuff or can't figure it out? Do you think that we, a bunch of message board fans, know more than they do?
I'll go back to my earlier point, sometimes people are only willing to change when they have to. To this point is his career, he has been uber successful. He faced some adversity in the major last year. I hope that will encourage him to continue his growth as a pitcher.
Have to disagree. Galsnow's problems of throwing strikes and holding runners should be learned in the minors. Those aren't things that have to be learned vs MLB hitters.
But he isn't being challenged by those things in the minors. He dominated even at AAA after his adjustment period. Sure, a couple of his peripherals were hight (WHIP, etc). But he was not allowing runs to score. That's the point of the game. It is very clear that the minors are not a challenge for him any longer.
I doubt the org sees it as you do. His gaudy minor league ERA doesn't mean he's ready. He needs to work on control and holding runners and developing another pitch. Those things are going to challenge him wherever he works on it. In 2014, Polanco was tearing up AAA and everyone wanted him promoted, saying he had nothing left to prove in AAA. But NH kept saying there where still things Polanco needed to work on. Few believed him, attributing the delay to Super 2 status. But after Polanco was promoted, it was obvious he still had things to work on in AAA. It's a similar situation with Glasnow.
Problem is not sure he's learning anything in the minors. Like others have said how did he get this far without these basics being taught. He's been in the minors for years. Looks like the Pirates minor league coaching leaves a lot to be desired. It's probably not Tylers fault he doesn't know these basics, it's managements.
Do you really think that the Pirates have a staff of people who don't teach this stuff or can't figure it out? Do you think that we, a bunch of message board fans, know more than they do?
I'll go back to my earlier point, sometimes people are only willing to change when they have to. To this point is his career, he has been uber successful. He faced some adversity in the major last year. I hope that will encourage him to continue his growth as a pitcher.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Starting Pitching Depth
5F474542425544435E5F492C0 wrote: I think Glasnow is going to need to pitch at the MLB level to learn how to do it. The lost season should've been used to help him learn to deal with and fight through struggling a bit. But maybe the FO thinks he's too fragile to overcome that adversity? And they probably saw themselves as being in the hunt. Hard to give a guy that on-the-job training in a playoff race.
Have to disagree. Galsnow's problems of throwing strikes and holding runners should be learned in the minors. Those aren't things that have to be learned vs MLB hitters.
But he isn't being challenged by those things in the minors. He dominated even at AAA after his adjustment period. Sure, a couple of his peripherals were hight (WHIP, etc). But he was not allowing runs to score. That's the point of the game. It is very clear that the minors are not a challenge for him any longer.
I doubt the org sees it as you do. His gaudy minor league ERA doesn't mean he's ready. He needs to work on control and holding runners and developing another pitch. Those things are going to challenge him wherever he works on it. In 2014, Polanco was tearing up AAA and everyone wanted him promoted, saying he had nothing left to prove in AAA. But NH kept saying there where still things Polanco needed to work on. Few believed him, attributing the delay to Super 2 status. But after Polanco was promoted, it was obvious he still had things to work on in AAA. It's a similar situation with Glasnow.
Problem is not sure he's learning anything in the minors. Like others have said how did he get this far without these basics being taught. He's been in the minors for years. Looks like the Pirates minor league coaching leaves a lot to be desired. It's probably not Tylers fault he doesn't know these basics, it's managements.
The other pitchers that have come up can do these things. I will repeat what the post above says that it's pretty unlikely that we, random nobodies on the internet, know more about this than professionals who deal with these guys personally.
Have to disagree. Galsnow's problems of throwing strikes and holding runners should be learned in the minors. Those aren't things that have to be learned vs MLB hitters.
But he isn't being challenged by those things in the minors. He dominated even at AAA after his adjustment period. Sure, a couple of his peripherals were hight (WHIP, etc). But he was not allowing runs to score. That's the point of the game. It is very clear that the minors are not a challenge for him any longer.
I doubt the org sees it as you do. His gaudy minor league ERA doesn't mean he's ready. He needs to work on control and holding runners and developing another pitch. Those things are going to challenge him wherever he works on it. In 2014, Polanco was tearing up AAA and everyone wanted him promoted, saying he had nothing left to prove in AAA. But NH kept saying there where still things Polanco needed to work on. Few believed him, attributing the delay to Super 2 status. But after Polanco was promoted, it was obvious he still had things to work on in AAA. It's a similar situation with Glasnow.
Problem is not sure he's learning anything in the minors. Like others have said how did he get this far without these basics being taught. He's been in the minors for years. Looks like the Pirates minor league coaching leaves a lot to be desired. It's probably not Tylers fault he doesn't know these basics, it's managements.
The other pitchers that have come up can do these things. I will repeat what the post above says that it's pretty unlikely that we, random nobodies on the internet, know more about this than professionals who deal with these guys personally.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Starting Pitching Depth
The other pitchers weren't 6'8" and 22 years old.
People are expecting too much in my opinion. He just isn't as polished as Taillon or Cole. Glasnow is still very young. He has time.
People are expecting too much in my opinion. He just isn't as polished as Taillon or Cole. Glasnow is still very young. He has time.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
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5A51595550514A0F097E475F565151105D513E0 wrote: The other pitchers weren't 6'8" and 22 years old.
People are expecting too much in my opinion. He just isn't as polished as Taillon or Cole. Glasnow is still very young. He has time.
Yeah I agree. What I don't agree is that the coaches were really stupid coaching Glasnow and not when dealing with every other player.
People are expecting too much in my opinion. He just isn't as polished as Taillon or Cole. Glasnow is still very young. He has time.
Yeah I agree. What I don't agree is that the coaches were really stupid coaching Glasnow and not when dealing with every other player.
Starting Pitching Depth
Sorry if I hijacked the thread. I agree that holding runners should be learned in the minors. That said, he's had very few runners for the most part. He may also have been told to concentrate on getting the batter out. It sure seems that our ML staff has been given some of the same guidance with their limited efforts to hold runners. It may be an organizational philosophy or what the analytics demand. I don't know.
I also agree that control will be a huge factor in reaching his potential. But I believe he needs to learn it at the ML level, in part because he just won't be able to get along as well without it. He'll still get out of innings thanks to less disciplined hitters in AAA. That necessity in MLB will motivate learning it. I still see Randy Johnson as a good comp (to this point in their respective careers). In his first 3 seasons plus, his WHIPs ran ~1.5, and yet he still managed to accumulate 6+ WAR over those 1st three years. RJ's WHIP dropped significantly in his 5th season and stayed low from that point on. And his numbers are just bonkers from that point on. Control developed, results skyrocketed.
With respect to needing a 3rd pitch, I don't buy it. RJ was a 2-pitch pitcher into the heart of his career where he was still 90%+ FB & slider. He did have a change and splitter, but threw them very little and was still pretty darned good. I don't see pitch type usage data on Fangraphs before 2002, when RJ was already in his 14th season. I bet he didn't have or, at least, use a 3rd pitch much in his first 3 seasons where he had the high WHIP and still managed to accumulate 6+ WAR. And, RJ was 25 in his first full season. I bet Glasnow can replicate that output, and I'd take it.
That all said, I can see the FO feeling that the extra time refining him at AAA can get him to be an higher output pitcher sooner. RJ was roughly a 5 WAR/yr guy after his 4th (3.6 in his 3rd yr) full season. Can a halfway effective change and better runner control make Glasnow a 3+ WAR guy by his 2nd full year? Maybe. Given that he may only be here for 6 full seasons, I can see the FO no want him to take until his 5th full season to reach his potential. The question becomes whether it's the lack of change and not holding runners that will hold him back? Or, is it developing control, maturity, toughness, and experience dealing with ML lineups? Personally, I believe the latter is the bigger issue, and he can only improve/learn those things in the majors. I may well be wrong.
I also agree that control will be a huge factor in reaching his potential. But I believe he needs to learn it at the ML level, in part because he just won't be able to get along as well without it. He'll still get out of innings thanks to less disciplined hitters in AAA. That necessity in MLB will motivate learning it. I still see Randy Johnson as a good comp (to this point in their respective careers). In his first 3 seasons plus, his WHIPs ran ~1.5, and yet he still managed to accumulate 6+ WAR over those 1st three years. RJ's WHIP dropped significantly in his 5th season and stayed low from that point on. And his numbers are just bonkers from that point on. Control developed, results skyrocketed.
With respect to needing a 3rd pitch, I don't buy it. RJ was a 2-pitch pitcher into the heart of his career where he was still 90%+ FB & slider. He did have a change and splitter, but threw them very little and was still pretty darned good. I don't see pitch type usage data on Fangraphs before 2002, when RJ was already in his 14th season. I bet he didn't have or, at least, use a 3rd pitch much in his first 3 seasons where he had the high WHIP and still managed to accumulate 6+ WAR. And, RJ was 25 in his first full season. I bet Glasnow can replicate that output, and I'd take it.
That all said, I can see the FO feeling that the extra time refining him at AAA can get him to be an higher output pitcher sooner. RJ was roughly a 5 WAR/yr guy after his 4th (3.6 in his 3rd yr) full season. Can a halfway effective change and better runner control make Glasnow a 3+ WAR guy by his 2nd full year? Maybe. Given that he may only be here for 6 full seasons, I can see the FO no want him to take until his 5th full season to reach his potential. The question becomes whether it's the lack of change and not holding runners that will hold him back? Or, is it developing control, maturity, toughness, and experience dealing with ML lineups? Personally, I believe the latter is the bigger issue, and he can only improve/learn those things in the majors. I may well be wrong.
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Bobster21
Starting Pitching Depth
45524473656569060 wrote: Given that he may only be here for 6 full seasons, I can see the FO no want him to take until his 5th full season to reach his potential.
I think that's a very relevant issue. It's pointless to spend years enduring a young pitcher's struggles just to prepare him to be a better pitcher for his next team.
I think that's a very relevant issue. It's pointless to spend years enduring a young pitcher's struggles just to prepare him to be a better pitcher for his next team.
Starting Pitching Depth
2F242C2025243F7A7C0B322A2324246528244B0 wrote: The other pitchers weren't 6'8" and 22 years old.
People are expecting too much in my opinion. He just isn't as polished as Taillon or Cole. Glasnow is still very young. He has time.
Exactly. That is why there should've been another pitcher signed!
People are expecting too much in my opinion. He just isn't as polished as Taillon or Cole. Glasnow is still very young. He has time.
Exactly. That is why there should've been another pitcher signed!