I hope that both Frazier and Harrison get starts in the opening series against the Red Sox. I would bat Frazier leadoff and set him at DH. I'd probably bat JayHay 9th, just to have the speed as the lineup comes back around.
Without Kang, we really don't have a cleanup hitter. Want to leave Cutch alone in the 3 spot, but he'd be the best choice. I suppose it could be Polanco.
Harrison vs Frazier
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Harrison vs Frazier
272C24282D2C377274033A222B2C2C6D202C430 wrote: I am curious too. Maybe the people who love the WAR stat can chime in since it is factored in that estimation?
From my own eyes, Harrison is a bad base runner. He runs in wrong situations. People thought he was great because he got out of some run downs that one year, but he should have never been in those situations.
I don't know how many times he took an extra base, but who are you comparing him to? Marte and Polanco are bad base runners too, but their speed makes up for some of their mistakes. Guys like Walker and Alvarez, who are no longer here, were very good base runners. McCutchen is a good base runner. Kang is a good base runner. Mercer is a good base runner. In my opinion, Harrison is the worst. He has made many bad decisions running even if he was called safe.
PP did an article a few months back looking at exactly this issue. Their statistical analysis did not confirm your eye test. The advanced metrics that they used showed Marte, Mercer and Harrison as the top baserunners on the team. They had a major drop last year in base running was largely attributed to Jaso and Freese, but also Kang, Polanco, and even McCutchen had big drop-offs.
I wasn't talking about stealing bases. Guys going first to third, scoring from first, or just knowing when to run when the ball isn't being caught. Harrison doesn't seem to me to get that jump and hesitates some. The biggest problem about Marte and Polanco is they over run the bases. Marte gets bad jumps too, but he is so fast.
I would love to know the stats or how it was analyzed.
I never said anything about stealing bases.
http://www.piratesprospects.com/2017/01 ... -2016.html
From my own eyes, Harrison is a bad base runner. He runs in wrong situations. People thought he was great because he got out of some run downs that one year, but he should have never been in those situations.
I don't know how many times he took an extra base, but who are you comparing him to? Marte and Polanco are bad base runners too, but their speed makes up for some of their mistakes. Guys like Walker and Alvarez, who are no longer here, were very good base runners. McCutchen is a good base runner. Kang is a good base runner. Mercer is a good base runner. In my opinion, Harrison is the worst. He has made many bad decisions running even if he was called safe.
PP did an article a few months back looking at exactly this issue. Their statistical analysis did not confirm your eye test. The advanced metrics that they used showed Marte, Mercer and Harrison as the top baserunners on the team. They had a major drop last year in base running was largely attributed to Jaso and Freese, but also Kang, Polanco, and even McCutchen had big drop-offs.
I wasn't talking about stealing bases. Guys going first to third, scoring from first, or just knowing when to run when the ball isn't being caught. Harrison doesn't seem to me to get that jump and hesitates some. The biggest problem about Marte and Polanco is they over run the bases. Marte gets bad jumps too, but he is so fast.
I would love to know the stats or how it was analyzed.
I never said anything about stealing bases.
http://www.piratesprospects.com/2017/01 ... -2016.html
Harrison vs Frazier
If I was running the club, I'd start out with Harrison as the every day starter at 2B with Frazier as his his primary sub starter for his off days. And I'd be getting Frazier starts elsewhere (OF, SS, maybe 3B) especially against RHSP. If Harrison showed any signs of having his typical poor platoon splits after the first 6 weeks or so, I'd start giving Frazier starts at 2B against some RHPs and increase that toward a full platoon if Frazier succeeds. Harrison becomes the late innings defensive replacement vs RHSP.
If we had a SS with more range and/or a better defensive 1Bman, I'd be trying to trade Harrison now, while he still has value. Hanson, Gosselin, et al can backup Frazier.
This said, I do like Harrison's attitude and energy. There's something to be said for how that can lift the team. I'm just not expecting his bat to rebound against RHP to the point where he can be an every day starter.
If we had a SS with more range and/or a better defensive 1Bman, I'd be trying to trade Harrison now, while he still has value. Hanson, Gosselin, et al can backup Frazier.
This said, I do like Harrison's attitude and energy. There's something to be said for how that can lift the team. I'm just not expecting his bat to rebound against RHP to the point where he can be an every day starter.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Harrison vs Frazier
Can you post the article for us non subscribers?
I know you didn't mention stealing bases, but people in general think base stealers are automatically good base runners. That isn't always the case. Some guys are just fast or can read a pitcher. Other players can read a base hit off the bat and take that extra base.
I know you didn't mention stealing bases, but people in general think base stealers are automatically good base runners. That isn't always the case. Some guys are just fast or can read a pitcher. Other players can read a base hit off the bat and take that extra base.
Harrison vs Frazier
040F070B0E0F145157201901080F0F4E030F600 wrote: Can you post the article for us non subscribers?
I know you didn't mention stealing bases, but people in general think base stealers are automatically good base runners. That isn't always the case. Some guys are just fast or can read a pitcher. Other players can read a base hit off the bat and take that extra base.
I'm hesitant to copy and paste the article. There is a reason why it's behind a paywall and I want to respect Tim and PP. Though, he does read here so maybe he will chime in and do that for you.
I will say, the article used the base running metrics from Fangraphs to do analysis and make some conclusions. The metrics they used was BsR, UBR, wGDP, & wSB. As you can see, the metrics were far more than simply stolen bases. They looked at those numbers as a team and individually.
I know you didn't mention stealing bases, but people in general think base stealers are automatically good base runners. That isn't always the case. Some guys are just fast or can read a pitcher. Other players can read a base hit off the bat and take that extra base.
I'm hesitant to copy and paste the article. There is a reason why it's behind a paywall and I want to respect Tim and PP. Though, he does read here so maybe he will chime in and do that for you.
I will say, the article used the base running metrics from Fangraphs to do analysis and make some conclusions. The metrics they used was BsR, UBR, wGDP, & wSB. As you can see, the metrics were far more than simply stolen bases. They looked at those numbers as a team and individually.
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fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3488
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
Harrison vs Frazier
Frazier is leading the Grapefruit League in hitting per the Trib. Since Harrison has played very little since the beginning of the WBC I would seriously consider starting Frazier in the opening series against the Red Sox. Keep his bat in the lineup.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Harrison vs Frazier
6B7652505E3B0 wrote: Can you post the article for us non subscribers?
I know you didn't mention stealing bases, but people in general think base stealers are automatically good base runners. That isn't always the case. Some guys are just fast or can read a pitcher. Other players can read a base hit off the bat and take that extra base.
I'm hesitant to copy and paste the article. There is a reason why it's behind a paywall and I want to respect Tim and PP. Though, he does read here so maybe he will chime in and do that for you.
I will say, the article used the base running metrics from Fangraphs to do analysis and make some conclusions. The metrics they used was BsR, UBR, wGDP, & wSB. As you can see, the metrics were far more than simply stolen bases. They looked at those numbers as a team and individually.
Sure, I understand.
I guess I am too "old school" to really understand all those fancy fangraphs stats. I do watch a lot of Pirates games. Harrison is my least favorite player to watch especially since he replaced a student of the game in Walker.
I know you didn't mention stealing bases, but people in general think base stealers are automatically good base runners. That isn't always the case. Some guys are just fast or can read a pitcher. Other players can read a base hit off the bat and take that extra base.
I'm hesitant to copy and paste the article. There is a reason why it's behind a paywall and I want to respect Tim and PP. Though, he does read here so maybe he will chime in and do that for you.
I will say, the article used the base running metrics from Fangraphs to do analysis and make some conclusions. The metrics they used was BsR, UBR, wGDP, & wSB. As you can see, the metrics were far more than simply stolen bases. They looked at those numbers as a team and individually.
Sure, I understand.
I guess I am too "old school" to really understand all those fancy fangraphs stats. I do watch a lot of Pirates games. Harrison is my least favorite player to watch especially since he replaced a student of the game in Walker.
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DemDog
Harrison vs Frazier
Hey Dog, I suggest strongly that you subscribe to Pirates Prospects. You will get a ton of great info on the kids in the system. Time and the guys who write including one former active poster on OBN are really into watching the kids. Tim and the team provide live updates on each team in the system all season long.
Also The P2 prospect guide is a great resource for info on the kids and lists their top 50 prospects and why they are in the list.
The cost is not too great. Only about the price of 1 good beer per month.
Also The P2 prospect guide is a great resource for info on the kids and lists their top 50 prospects and why they are in the list.
The cost is not too great. Only about the price of 1 good beer per month.
Harrison vs Frazier
6368606C6968733630477E666F6868296468070 wrote: Can you post the article for us non subscribers?
I know you didn't mention stealing bases, but people in general think base stealers are automatically good base runners. That isn't always the case. Some guys are just fast or can read a pitcher. Other players can read a base hit off the bat and take that extra base.
I'm hesitant to copy and paste the article. There is a reason why it's behind a paywall and I want to respect Tim and PP. Though, he does read here so maybe he will chime in and do that for you.
I will say, the article used the base running metrics from Fangraphs to do analysis and make some conclusions. The metrics they used was BsR, UBR, wGDP, & wSB. As you can see, the metrics were far more than simply stolen bases. They looked at those numbers as a team and individually.
Sure, I understand.
I guess I am too "old school" to really understand all those fancy fangraphs stats. I do watch a lot of Pirates games. Harrison is my least favorite player to watch especially since he replaced a student of the game in Walker.
It's certainly hard to keep up with all of these advanced metrics. I don't claim to get them all either. I also take things with a grain of salt. I think Harrison gets a bad rap because he plays the game a little different than most and he is instantly remembered (thanks to Root Sports) for a couple of bad base running moves that he escaped. I like him and think he gets more out of his skill set than most do. It has been interesting to check out the bios (height/weight) of the roster on a given game day in the regular season. Most games, McCutchen and Harrison are the only guys under 6 foot on the team. McCutchen is 5'11" and Harrison is only 5'8." Those two are very much bucking the trend currently in baseball.
Anyway, I can certainly understand your perspective mixed with Walker. You aren't alone!
I know you didn't mention stealing bases, but people in general think base stealers are automatically good base runners. That isn't always the case. Some guys are just fast or can read a pitcher. Other players can read a base hit off the bat and take that extra base.
I'm hesitant to copy and paste the article. There is a reason why it's behind a paywall and I want to respect Tim and PP. Though, he does read here so maybe he will chime in and do that for you.
I will say, the article used the base running metrics from Fangraphs to do analysis and make some conclusions. The metrics they used was BsR, UBR, wGDP, & wSB. As you can see, the metrics were far more than simply stolen bases. They looked at those numbers as a team and individually.
Sure, I understand.
I guess I am too "old school" to really understand all those fancy fangraphs stats. I do watch a lot of Pirates games. Harrison is my least favorite player to watch especially since he replaced a student of the game in Walker.
It's certainly hard to keep up with all of these advanced metrics. I don't claim to get them all either. I also take things with a grain of salt. I think Harrison gets a bad rap because he plays the game a little different than most and he is instantly remembered (thanks to Root Sports) for a couple of bad base running moves that he escaped. I like him and think he gets more out of his skill set than most do. It has been interesting to check out the bios (height/weight) of the roster on a given game day in the regular season. Most games, McCutchen and Harrison are the only guys under 6 foot on the team. McCutchen is 5'11" and Harrison is only 5'8." Those two are very much bucking the trend currently in baseball.
Anyway, I can certainly understand your perspective mixed with Walker. You aren't alone!
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johnfluharty
Harrison vs Frazier
0A2B230A21294E0 wrote: Hey Dog, I suggest strongly that you subscribe to Pirates Prospects. You will get a ton of great info on the kids in the system. Time and the guys who write including one former active poster on OBN are really into watching the kids. Tim and the team provide live updates on each team in the system all season long.
Also The P2 prospect guide is a great resource for info on the kids and lists their top 50 prospects and why they are in the list.
The cost is not too great. Only about the price of 1 good beer per month.
Definitely worth the price. I get 90% of all my Pirates info from that site. If you want flooded with almost too much information on the Pirates minor leagues, sign up.
Also The P2 prospect guide is a great resource for info on the kids and lists their top 50 prospects and why they are in the list.
The cost is not too great. Only about the price of 1 good beer per month.
Definitely worth the price. I get 90% of all my Pirates info from that site. If you want flooded with almost too much information on the Pirates minor leagues, sign up.