61535F5F4B795A535E5B5453320 wrote: If they go minor deals, Ithink both Jaso and David Freese could be interesting to a number of teams.
I think you're right about those two. There are a lot of AL teams that are in running for a WC making it a good sellers market. I think you'll see Watson go to an AL team, that league has not seen his stuff before. I keep wondering what we'll do with Nicasio. He would have really good value on the market but I'd like to extend him. The bullpen has been so bad that if we moved Watson and Nicasio, I don't know how we'd fill in.
NH saying that we plan to keep Cutch -- doesn't actually mean that we plan to keep Cutch no matter what. It's just a way to help set the market price. Read, "we plan to keep Cutch and Cole together for a run next year -- unless you want one of them so bad you give us a prospect package I can't refuse." Who would be complaining about that.
With the way he is playing I'm sure expectations for the kind of prospects it's going to take to pry him away are sky high. And if we don't get that kind of offer, then I'm enjoying watching Cutch lead this team right now. We keep Bell and Polanco hitting, get JHay out of his funk, cross our fingers on what Marte might be able to bring, solidify the bullpen and then see what we get in the second half. Our starters are starting to put it together consistently and Brault is waiting in the wings. We just need to put together a good win streak.
So did he or didn't he....
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
So did he or didn't he....
I agree. Good wording for McCutchen and Cole. Teams will have to pay for them. I'm on the keeping them Boat and a soft sell. Get pieces for next year.
So did he or didn't he....
6B6C7A727C6B2C20597E74787075377A7674190 wrote: Someone told me, on Friday, that Neal told MLB Network (Buster O maybe) that the Pirates are set to retain both Cole and Cutch and believe in "next year".
Stunning if true. The implications are huge.
Anybody hear Neal speak about this? I can't find anything through Google.
I hope to God this isn't true. We know as a collective group the FO and ownership WON'T go out and make improvements as in bringing in needed pieces to contend. Scratching the bottom of the barrel isn't bring in valuable pieces. They should be selling Cutch now that his stock is back up. Keep him, he could go back to 2016 form and you get nothing at the Trade deadline for him a year from now. I would hold onto Cole and hope he rebounds then trade next year.
Stunning if true. The implications are huge.
Anybody hear Neal speak about this? I can't find anything through Google.
I hope to God this isn't true. We know as a collective group the FO and ownership WON'T go out and make improvements as in bringing in needed pieces to contend. Scratching the bottom of the barrel isn't bring in valuable pieces. They should be selling Cutch now that his stock is back up. Keep him, he could go back to 2016 form and you get nothing at the Trade deadline for him a year from now. I would hold onto Cole and hope he rebounds then trade next year.
So did he or didn't he....
The value floor for Cutch and Cole is a 2019 late 1st round (compensaton) draft pick as I expect the Bucs would make qualifying offers to both. That's not saying a ton as I'm sure we'd all want to get a LOT more value than that back. But, if the Bucs keep them both next year, they get the value of having them in '18 plus the comp picks. I think this will keep NH's demands on the high side to consider trading either of them.
I think NH goes for it in '18. With Cutch, Cole, Mercer, Harrison, Freese all signed through '18, that's the last chance for that group. If they aren't in contention, then there's a major sell-off.
The next wave arrives/takes over in '19 with Newman, Kramer, Meadows, maybe Tucker, maybe Keller plus pieces from trades, if any to add to Bell, Polanco, Marte, maybe Kang, Diaz, Taillon, Nova(?), Rivero.
I think NH goes for it in '18. With Cutch, Cole, Mercer, Harrison, Freese all signed through '18, that's the last chance for that group. If they aren't in contention, then there's a major sell-off.
The next wave arrives/takes over in '19 with Newman, Kramer, Meadows, maybe Tucker, maybe Keller plus pieces from trades, if any to add to Bell, Polanco, Marte, maybe Kang, Diaz, Taillon, Nova(?), Rivero.
-
OrlandoMerced
So did he or didn't he....
No reason to trade McCutchen now, he's back to being penciled into the 3-hole and can anchor the lineup. At this level, he'd still bring a massive return if they fell out of contention next year at the deadline.
Cole is a different story, if some team wanted to offer a package of a top prospect and a starting pitcher that will help in 2018, then I'd consider moving him.
They should shop Nicasio and Watson, and then hopefully sign one of them back in the offseason. Even with Glasnow's demotion, the back of the bullpen issues and the mediocre performances from Kuhl, Williams and Cole, the Pirates are still middle of the league in run prevention. If they hadn't lost Marte and Kang, they're probably up there with the Brewers in the division. Not only would those two have provided offensive spark, Freese and Jaso have proved to be very competent part time players, and they would be much more effective in limited at bats.
Marte comes back next week, but outside of a ten game winning streak in the two weeks before the deadline, I think they need to shop those two relievers.
Cole is a different story, if some team wanted to offer a package of a top prospect and a starting pitcher that will help in 2018, then I'd consider moving him.
They should shop Nicasio and Watson, and then hopefully sign one of them back in the offseason. Even with Glasnow's demotion, the back of the bullpen issues and the mediocre performances from Kuhl, Williams and Cole, the Pirates are still middle of the league in run prevention. If they hadn't lost Marte and Kang, they're probably up there with the Brewers in the division. Not only would those two have provided offensive spark, Freese and Jaso have proved to be very competent part time players, and they would be much more effective in limited at bats.
Marte comes back next week, but outside of a ten game winning streak in the two weeks before the deadline, I think they need to shop those two relievers.
-
Bobster21
So did he or didn't he....
18253B363933381A3225343233570 wrote:
They should shop Nicasio and Watson, and then hopefully sign one of them back in the offseason.
Realistically, that's a longshot. If they trade one or both they have to expect to go on next year without them.
They should shop Nicasio and Watson, and then hopefully sign one of them back in the offseason.
Realistically, that's a longshot. If they trade one or both they have to expect to go on next year without them.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
So did he or didn't he....
I think Watson is a no brainer. He is lefty, someone will want him. Nicasio could be wanted too.
These two could help the 2018 team like Rivero. Trade them for the same type of deal: a young reliever who really isn't trusted, throws hard. Melancon was special and a lot better than these two combined.
Cole is still a mystery. Part of me would hate to trade him, another part of me leans to move him. It really depends on the offers. Cole would be in every rotation in all of baseball.
McCutchen is back. He is on pace for one of his best seasons ever in the power category and like his MVP seasons. I want to sign him. I am not trading him this deadline. I would listen, but it has to be a huge offer. He is one of the best players in the NL. 2016 looks like just a bad year, not a downhill spiral most thought.
I am fan of a soft sell. See what happens, see what is being offered, but look for help now and especially in 2018. The return of Marte has to come into play too.
These two could help the 2018 team like Rivero. Trade them for the same type of deal: a young reliever who really isn't trusted, throws hard. Melancon was special and a lot better than these two combined.
Cole is still a mystery. Part of me would hate to trade him, another part of me leans to move him. It really depends on the offers. Cole would be in every rotation in all of baseball.
McCutchen is back. He is on pace for one of his best seasons ever in the power category and like his MVP seasons. I want to sign him. I am not trading him this deadline. I would listen, but it has to be a huge offer. He is one of the best players in the NL. 2016 looks like just a bad year, not a downhill spiral most thought.
I am fan of a soft sell. See what happens, see what is being offered, but look for help now and especially in 2018. The return of Marte has to come into play too.
-
OrlandoMerced
So did he or didn't he....
527F72636475622221100 wrote:
They should shop Nicasio and Watson, and then hopefully sign one of them back in the offseason.
Realistically, that's a longshot. If they trade one or both they have to expect to go on next year without them.
It's a loaded FA class this offseason, the Pirates should be willing to spend some money to fill some holes, and if they go into the spending period with money and a narrow shopping list, they can probably get someone signed up.
Here's a list of all the players the Pirates have on the roster for 2018 that are either under contract or up for arbitration. (12)
McCutchen, Polanco, Marte, Freese, Harrison, Cervelli, Mercer, Nova, LeBlanc, Hudson, Cole, Rivero
Here are all the guys that will be at the minimum (9)
Diaz, Tailloin, Bell, Glasnow, Frazier, Kuhl, Brault, Williams, Osuna.
So that's a starting rotation, and basically your entire roster of position players. The Pirates have a lot of flexibility for 2018.
They should shop Nicasio and Watson, and then hopefully sign one of them back in the offseason.
Realistically, that's a longshot. If they trade one or both they have to expect to go on next year without them.
It's a loaded FA class this offseason, the Pirates should be willing to spend some money to fill some holes, and if they go into the spending period with money and a narrow shopping list, they can probably get someone signed up.
Here's a list of all the players the Pirates have on the roster for 2018 that are either under contract or up for arbitration. (12)
McCutchen, Polanco, Marte, Freese, Harrison, Cervelli, Mercer, Nova, LeBlanc, Hudson, Cole, Rivero
Here are all the guys that will be at the minimum (9)
Diaz, Tailloin, Bell, Glasnow, Frazier, Kuhl, Brault, Williams, Osuna.
So that's a starting rotation, and basically your entire roster of position players. The Pirates have a lot of flexibility for 2018.
So did he or didn't he....
4156407761616D020 wrote: The value floor for Cutch and Cole is a 2019 late 1st round (compensaton) draft pick as I expect the Bucs would make qualifying offers to both. That's not saying a ton as I'm sure we'd all want to get a LOT more value than that back. But, if the Bucs keep them both next year, they get the value of having them in '18 plus the comp picks. I think this will keep NH's demands on the high side to consider trading either of them.
I think NH goes for it in '18. With Cutch, Cole, Mercer, Harrison, Freese all signed through '18, that's the last chance for that group. If they aren't in contention, then there's a major sell-off.
The next wave arrives/takes over in '19 with Newman, Kramer, Meadows, maybe Tucker, maybe Keller plus pieces from trades, if any to add to Bell, Polanco, Marte, maybe Kang, Diaz, Taillon, Nova(?), Rivero.
If he goes for it in 2018, the owner better pony up. We need at least two starters for the rotation. After Taillon, Nova and Cole when he pitches well, there is nothing worth anything really.
I think NH goes for it in '18. With Cutch, Cole, Mercer, Harrison, Freese all signed through '18, that's the last chance for that group. If they aren't in contention, then there's a major sell-off.
The next wave arrives/takes over in '19 with Newman, Kramer, Meadows, maybe Tucker, maybe Keller plus pieces from trades, if any to add to Bell, Polanco, Marte, maybe Kang, Diaz, Taillon, Nova(?), Rivero.
If he goes for it in 2018, the owner better pony up. We need at least two starters for the rotation. After Taillon, Nova and Cole when he pitches well, there is nothing worth anything really.
-
CarolinaBucco
So did he or didn't he....
Agreed. I've always been a fan of keeping Cutch in '18 (and extending him and let him retire as a Pirate) and SPENDING SOME MONEY this offseason to acquire 2 LEGITIMATE starters.
Do just those 2 things -- keep Cutch, sign 2 starters -- and this team will be a serious contender in 2018.
Do just those 2 things -- keep Cutch, sign 2 starters -- and this team will be a serious contender in 2018.