464D45494C4D561315625B434A4D4D0C414D220 wrote: So, I shouldn't accept reality because a lot of fans aren't accepting it? Sorry, I am not quitting on the Pirates or baseball in general. That doesn't mean I am happy with the current situation, but I can't change it. People have to accept reality or move on. It is what it is. The trades happened. Rebuilding is happening.
I think giving him three years is fair. Most teams rebuild in three to four years. If he shows no signs, they need to bring in someone who will, someone better.
IMO, the rebuild started after the 2015 season.
An observation
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
An observation
72535B725951360 wrote: So, I shouldn't accept reality because a lot of fans aren't accepting it? Sorry, I am not quitting on the Pirates or baseball in general. That doesn't mean I am happy with the current situation, but I can't change it. People have to accept reality or move on. It is what it is. The trades happened. Rebuilding is happening.
I think giving him three years is fair. Most teams rebuild in three to four years. If he shows no signs, they need to bring in someone who will, someone better.
Dog I think you have spoken with a real sense of reality here. The trades are what they are and we can't do anything to change them. Like you I am and always will be a Pirate fan.
The thing that really ticks me off is the mouth full of cow pies (manure) that NH is spewing about being contenders in 2018. Oh, if the stars are aligned just right they could be a wild card team but I believe that is just a big fat dream.
Because of the manure spewed from NH mouth I most likely will only do a few games when my daughter is in town. Otherwise I will get my baseball fix going to Morgantown to watch the kids playing for the Black Bears and watching me hopefully mature to the point that one of them might make the MLB roster before I go to be with Roberto and Pops in heaven.
Is there an Owner, a GM, a Coach who says anything differently? I would love to hear what the Reds, Marlins, White Sox, Orioles, Rays, Tigers, Padres, Phillies have said over the years. I am curious. They are still trying to sell a product. I like actions over words.
What would YOU want Huntington to say? What words would help you go to more games?
I think giving him three years is fair. Most teams rebuild in three to four years. If he shows no signs, they need to bring in someone who will, someone better.
Dog I think you have spoken with a real sense of reality here. The trades are what they are and we can't do anything to change them. Like you I am and always will be a Pirate fan.
The thing that really ticks me off is the mouth full of cow pies (manure) that NH is spewing about being contenders in 2018. Oh, if the stars are aligned just right they could be a wild card team but I believe that is just a big fat dream.
Because of the manure spewed from NH mouth I most likely will only do a few games when my daughter is in town. Otherwise I will get my baseball fix going to Morgantown to watch the kids playing for the Black Bears and watching me hopefully mature to the point that one of them might make the MLB roster before I go to be with Roberto and Pops in heaven.
Is there an Owner, a GM, a Coach who says anything differently? I would love to hear what the Reds, Marlins, White Sox, Orioles, Rays, Tigers, Padres, Phillies have said over the years. I am curious. They are still trying to sell a product. I like actions over words.
What would YOU want Huntington to say? What words would help you go to more games?
An observation
052322352333400 wrote: So, I shouldn't accept reality because a lot of fans aren't accepting it? Sorry, I am not quitting on the Pirates or baseball in general. That doesn't mean I am happy with the current situation, but I can't change it. People have to accept reality or move on. It is what it is. The trades happened. Rebuilding is happening.
I think giving him three years is fair. Most teams rebuild in three to four years. If he shows no signs, they need to bring in someone who will, someone better.
IMO, the rebuild started after the 2015 season.
I think 2018 is the rebuild. 2016-2017 they virtually did nothing to either improve or sell off to get younger or cheaper. The Walker trade was a wash in money and received no prospects, Liriano saved money, but got nothing in return.
I haven't had time to read the 4 pages on this topic, but what really bothers me and many of my friends are the attitudes of the FO. They act like us fans are stupid. Come on, do they really think they are just as close to playoffs with these new guys than with Cole or Cutch? You win 98 games and do NOTHING. You say your close with Cole and Cutch, but you sell instead of buying? Come on! These guys will say whatever they want to save face. Of course NH is gonna say he thinks we're close to playoffs, why would he not? That would cause even more doubt in his "abilities".
It's yet another frustrating time to be a Pirate fan. No matter what happens, I understand it's a business. But it still hurts. I spend a lot of time reading and watching the Pirates. I have spent a lot of money going to PNC Park. The fact is, Nutting cares more about money than winning. That is clearly shown after the 2015 season with nothing was done to improve this team. He might like to win, but he also likes money too.
Rant over
I think giving him three years is fair. Most teams rebuild in three to four years. If he shows no signs, they need to bring in someone who will, someone better.
IMO, the rebuild started after the 2015 season.
I think 2018 is the rebuild. 2016-2017 they virtually did nothing to either improve or sell off to get younger or cheaper. The Walker trade was a wash in money and received no prospects, Liriano saved money, but got nothing in return.
I haven't had time to read the 4 pages on this topic, but what really bothers me and many of my friends are the attitudes of the FO. They act like us fans are stupid. Come on, do they really think they are just as close to playoffs with these new guys than with Cole or Cutch? You win 98 games and do NOTHING. You say your close with Cole and Cutch, but you sell instead of buying? Come on! These guys will say whatever they want to save face. Of course NH is gonna say he thinks we're close to playoffs, why would he not? That would cause even more doubt in his "abilities".
It's yet another frustrating time to be a Pirate fan. No matter what happens, I understand it's a business. But it still hurts. I spend a lot of time reading and watching the Pirates. I have spent a lot of money going to PNC Park. The fact is, Nutting cares more about money than winning. That is clearly shown after the 2015 season with nothing was done to improve this team. He might like to win, but he also likes money too.
Rant over
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rucker59@gmail.com
An observation
31262B2F2F2B212971420 wrote: So, I shouldn't accept reality because a lot of fans aren't accepting it? Sorry, I am not quitting on the Pirates or baseball in general. That doesn't mean I am happy with the current situation, but I can't change it. People have to accept reality or move on. It is what it is. The trades happened. Rebuilding is happening.
I think giving him three years is fair. Most teams rebuild in three to four years. If he shows no signs, they need to bring in someone who will, someone better.
IMO, the rebuild started after the 2015 season.
I think 2018 is the rebuild. 2016-2017 they virtually did nothing to either improve or sell off to get younger or cheaper. The Walker trade was a wash in money and received no prospects, Liriano saved money, but got nothing in return.
I haven't had time to read the 4 pages on this topic, but what really bothers me and many of my friends are the attitudes of the FO. They act like us fans are stupid. Come on, do they really think they are just as close to playoffs with these new guys than with Cole or Cutch? You win 98 games and do NOTHING. You say your close with Cole and Cutch, but you sell instead of buying? Come on! These guys will say whatever they want to save face. Of course NH is gonna say he thinks we're close to playoffs, why would he not? That would cause even more doubt in his "abilities".
It's yet another frustrating time to be a Pirate fan. No matter what happens, I understand it's a business. But it still hurts. I spend a lot of time reading and watching the Pirates. I have spent a lot of money going to PNC Park. The fact is, Nutting cares more about money than winning. That is clearly shown after the 2015 season with nothing was done to improve this team. He might like to win, but he also likes money too.
Rant over
Good rant!
And to confirm: you are not alone in taking exception to the FO BS. There seems to be a universal frustration with the FO treating their fans like total dummies.
Radio guys in Pittsburgh are talking about this a lot.
And regarding whether this is a rebuild or not - I think Neal is flying by the seat of his pants. A “rebuild” would mean trade Cole and Cutch for the best haul you can get. Trying to contend would mean trade if you improve the team, only. The Pirates are in between these two options - they decided to trade those two for the best deal they could get, but rather than including young high ceiling prospects they trade for marginal ML talent.
None of this makes sense for a rebuild nor for contending. Maybe a .500 club + a lot of luck is the plan. The problem is a team that wins 79-83 games is simply treading water.
I was in favor of rebuilding. I was in favor of completing the 2017 team. The only thing I’m not in favor of is this “no real commitment; maybe we can get lucky” approach. This is the surest way to accomplish nothing. And this is what we’ve got this offseason.
This time next year the conversations are going to be the same.
I think giving him three years is fair. Most teams rebuild in three to four years. If he shows no signs, they need to bring in someone who will, someone better.
IMO, the rebuild started after the 2015 season.
I think 2018 is the rebuild. 2016-2017 they virtually did nothing to either improve or sell off to get younger or cheaper. The Walker trade was a wash in money and received no prospects, Liriano saved money, but got nothing in return.
I haven't had time to read the 4 pages on this topic, but what really bothers me and many of my friends are the attitudes of the FO. They act like us fans are stupid. Come on, do they really think they are just as close to playoffs with these new guys than with Cole or Cutch? You win 98 games and do NOTHING. You say your close with Cole and Cutch, but you sell instead of buying? Come on! These guys will say whatever they want to save face. Of course NH is gonna say he thinks we're close to playoffs, why would he not? That would cause even more doubt in his "abilities".
It's yet another frustrating time to be a Pirate fan. No matter what happens, I understand it's a business. But it still hurts. I spend a lot of time reading and watching the Pirates. I have spent a lot of money going to PNC Park. The fact is, Nutting cares more about money than winning. That is clearly shown after the 2015 season with nothing was done to improve this team. He might like to win, but he also likes money too.
Rant over
Good rant!
And to confirm: you are not alone in taking exception to the FO BS. There seems to be a universal frustration with the FO treating their fans like total dummies.
Radio guys in Pittsburgh are talking about this a lot.
And regarding whether this is a rebuild or not - I think Neal is flying by the seat of his pants. A “rebuild” would mean trade Cole and Cutch for the best haul you can get. Trying to contend would mean trade if you improve the team, only. The Pirates are in between these two options - they decided to trade those two for the best deal they could get, but rather than including young high ceiling prospects they trade for marginal ML talent.
None of this makes sense for a rebuild nor for contending. Maybe a .500 club + a lot of luck is the plan. The problem is a team that wins 79-83 games is simply treading water.
I was in favor of rebuilding. I was in favor of completing the 2017 team. The only thing I’m not in favor of is this “no real commitment; maybe we can get lucky” approach. This is the surest way to accomplish nothing. And this is what we’ve got this offseason.
This time next year the conversations are going to be the same.
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DemDog
An observation
Ya know the more I think about it VaPirate might be right, Neal is simply flying by the seat of his pants. If so, why is this happening? Does he have the talent required of MLB GMs? Or has the moment by-passed him.
An observation
NH has no real idea what he's doing. Hasn't for the last 2 years.
After a few more years, and a few more losing seasons with Maholm and Gozelanny esque talent, perhaps NH can finally be put out to pasture
Nutting isn't the one pitting together these draftclasses and missing these trades
After a few more years, and a few more losing seasons with Maholm and Gozelanny esque talent, perhaps NH can finally be put out to pasture
Nutting isn't the one pitting together these draftclasses and missing these trades
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rucker59@gmail.com
An observation
707971606E140 wrote: NH has no real idea what he's doing. Hasn't for the last 2 years.
After a few more years, and a few more losing seasons with Maholm and Gozelanny esque talent, perhaps NH can finally be put out to pasture
Nutting isn't the one pitting together these draftclasses and missing these trades
The more I look at the trades the worse they appear: neither rebuilding nor improving the 2017 team. This is Dave Littlefield stuff: make moves to try and cobble some sort of team together that has no Short or long term identity or strategy.
After a few more years, and a few more losing seasons with Maholm and Gozelanny esque talent, perhaps NH can finally be put out to pasture
Nutting isn't the one pitting together these draftclasses and missing these trades
The more I look at the trades the worse they appear: neither rebuilding nor improving the 2017 team. This is Dave Littlefield stuff: make moves to try and cobble some sort of team together that has no Short or long term identity or strategy.