An observation

[rucker59@gmail.com]

If the Pirates goal was to slip under the Steelers outrage, it didn’t work. The PG (don’t know about the trip yet) has more article about the Pirates then I ever recall. Lots of out rage. This of course is going to add to the fan out rage.



I feel sure attendance is going to fall through the floor. TV ratings will continue to freefall.



What’s going to break this cycle? What is Nutting’s end game? Honestly I don’t trust the guy. I could see him try to move the team. Not fair to attribute such bad motives to him, but he seems to be intentionally driving fans away.



A day later: All of this is incredibly sad. It makes me sick to watch this unfold. Why won’t he just sale? Walk away fabulously rich? He has no intention of running a ML operation. Value will start to fall. Revenue is going to start to drop. He’s vilified in western Pennsylvania. What can possible be his end game?



I’m no longer angry. The war’s been lost. Now, looking at this mess, I’m just very sad.

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

If Bob Nutting sold the team to Derek Jeter, would you be ok with Jeter trading Cole, McCutchen, and probably others?

[Bobster21]

I think he really enjoys being an MLB owner. But he'll do it on his own terms, which is to spend as little as possible. He wants to have a good team. He just won't pay for one. So he tasks NH with trying to somehow assemble as good a team as possible on a shoestring payroll. But it costs more to sustain success because salaries increase yearly. So even if NH succeeds in assembling a quality team as he did 2013-15, rule #1 requires that salaries be purged to prevent any significant payroll increases. It's as if he said to NH after 2015, "You did a fine job, now tear it down and start over." The goal is always to win. But that goal is superseded by the strict financial constraints. NH knows his job and signed on for 4 more years. He probably realizes that if he can build a cheap, competitive team for a brief time before the pieces have to be sold off again, he's done his job.

[JollyRoger]

I understand trading Cole. There was no way the Bucs would want to pay market rate for him given the uncertainties of his recent performance and agent Boras demanding top dollar. But with a 50 million dollar windfall coming to the Bucs this year; why not extend your franchise player and face of the organization. If ever there was budget and a time to do so it would have been now.



What is sickening is hearing Nutting and NH both state that it was inevitable that Cutch would be traded due to the economics of the game. That was pure BS. He could have been signed, the money was there. I was lucky enough to have seen Clemente and Stargell play their entire careers as Pittsburgh Pirates. Sadly I don’t think we will see another Hall of Famer play their entire career in Pittsburgh unless Nutting is tarred and feathered and run out of town.

[OrlandoMerced]

I think that it's become increasingly apparent that the most important part of a competitive baseball team is an anchor in the lineup. I think the Pirates' run was built around McCutchen's MVP performances, which in turn boosted the production of the other bats in the lineup. I don't think McCutchen is that guy anymore, I think he'll be a productive player for the Giants and make it look like NH was totally fleeced. But I think the marginal value he's going to bring to the giants is much greater than what he would have brought to this team.



I'm not sure if the pirates have any of those lineup anchor types in the organization. It might tight finding that guy in the draft because those guys are never available in trade.

[Quail]

I'd be happy with anything that a new owner would want to do as long as he/she was up front about what the goals for the franchise are and then sticks to it.



The most irksome thing to me about this current sell off of assets is that for years ownership and management have been preaching their "perpetually competitive" B.S. Now that it's convenient they're saying that there was a "window" to compete and with that having ended it's time for a rebuild.



I'm not at all opposed to a rebuild, but it bothers me that the Pirate$ had a decent core group with Cole and Cutch that could have been supplemented with spending up to league average on payroll (which would be totally in line with the Pirates revenues) by going after a few quality free agents, and that this should have been precisely the action taken by the "perpetually competitive" blueprint they waved in front of the fanbase for so many years. In short I'm just fed up with the obfuscating B.S. that this ownership/management team have been spewing for so long.

[Bobster21]

112C323F303A31133B2C3D3B3A5E0 wrote: I think that it's become increasingly apparent that the most important part of a competitive baseball team is an anchor in the lineup. I think the Pirates' run was built around McCutchen's MVP performances, which in turn boosted the production of the other bats in the lineup. I don't think McCutchen is that guy anymore, I think he'll be a productive player for the Giants and make it look like NH was totally fleeced. But I think the marginal value he's going to bring to the giants is much greater than what he would have brought to this team.



I'm not sure if the pirates have any of those lineup anchor types in the organization. It might tight finding that guy in the draft because those guys are never available in trade.
Bell might become that player until it's time to shed his contract.

[Bobster21]

0D293D35305C0 wrote: I'd be happy with anything that a new owner would want to do as long as he/she was up front about what the goals for the franchise are and then sticks to it.



The most irksome thing to me about this current sell off of assets is that for years ownership and management have been preaching their "perpetually competitive" B.S. Now that it's convenient they're saying that there was a "window" to compete and with that having ended it's time for a rebuild.



I'm not at all opposed to a rebuild, but it bothers me that the Pirate$ had a decent core group with Cole and Cutch that could have been supplemented with spending up to league average on payroll (which would be totally in line with the Pirates revenues) by going after a few quality free agents, and that this should have been precisely the action taken by the "perpetually competitive" blueprint they waved in front of the fanbase for so many years. In short I'm just fed up with the obfuscating B.S. that this ownership/management team have been spewing for so long.
Given what appears to be the philosophy of this organization there's nothing they can do but BS the fans. Their talking points are "trying to build a winner" and "the economics of the game." What they can't admit to the fans is that the latter cancels out the former.

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

456865747362753536070 wrote: I think he really enjoys being an MLB owner. But he'll do it on his own terms, which is to spend as little as possible. He wants to have a good team. He just won't pay for one. So he tasks NH with trying to somehow assemble as good a team as possible on a shoestring payroll. But it costs more to sustain success because salaries increase yearly. So even if NH succeeds in assembling a quality team as he did 2013-15, rule #1 requires that salaries be purged to prevent any significant payroll increases. It's as if he said to NH after 2015, "You did a fine job, now tear it down and start over." The goal is always to win. But that goal is superseded by the strict financial constraints. NH knows his job and signed on for 4 more years. He probably realizes that if he can build a cheap, competitive team for a brief time before the pieces have to be sold off again, he's done his job.


It probably doesn't help how close they did get in those three years with that low payroll. It shows it is possible.

[Bobster21]

414A424E4B4A511412655C444D4A4A0B464A250 wrote: I think he really enjoys being an MLB owner. But he'll do it on his own terms, which is to spend as little as possible. He wants to have a good team. He just won't pay for one. So he tasks NH with trying to somehow assemble as good a team as possible on a shoestring payroll. But it costs more to sustain success because salaries increase yearly. So even if NH succeeds in assembling a quality team as he did 2013-15, rule #1 requires that salaries be purged to prevent any significant payroll increases. It's as if he said to NH after 2015, "You did a fine job, now tear it down and start over." The goal is always to win. But that goal is superseded by the strict financial constraints. NH knows his job and signed on for 4 more years. He probably realizes that if he can build a cheap, competitive team for a brief time before the pieces have to be sold off again, he's done his job.


It probably doesn't help how close they did get in those three years with that low payroll.  It shows it is possible. 
Yes, it can be done. To a point. That team was poised to stay competitive and could have gotten even better had they added a few key pieces. Instead, they added Niese, Jaso and Vogelsong and relied on either Glasnow or Taillon to bail them out at midseason. For a team that should have been bringing in a couple proven, productive, quality players to supplement a very good roster, they went the other way and 2 years later are in a total rebuild. That's why I am skeptical of any rebuild. Even if they become competitive, which is certainly possible, they show no interest in adding key pieces to take it up another notch if it requires more than a minimal payroll. I suspect we're probably in for more brief runs like 2013-2015 when the team is competitive but needs just a little push the owner won't spring for. And then another tear down and rebuild.