686D7A693F4E4D0C0 wrote: If Hurdle used Rivero for 2 innings Friday, he doesn't go 1 2/3 last night. You can't run the guy out there every night for as long as you want. These are human beings. He threw a total of 37 pitches in both games and had he been able to get out of the 9th inning on 10-15 pitches on Friday which he probably could have since he is that good he could have did the samething and would have been fine for Saturday. We'll never know though since Clint thinks Nicasio is a closer and is Chad Allen on the Indians.
Sometimes you gotta take a chance and roll the dice a little bit to win an important game and series against a team who won the World Series last year in your division and is struggling at the moment and who also absolutely embarrassed and kicked your ass all over the place last year, and instead Hurdle decided to do what he did and therefore got the result he absolutely deserved.
June 17th. I really don't like Arrieta.
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SteadyFreddy
June 17th. I really don't like Arrieta.
070C04080D0C175254231A020B0C0C4D000C630 wrote: Funny. Everything worked out so there are no comments. I guess Hurdle stays for another game?
Yea it's the fans fault that Hurdle didn't use Rivero for 2 innings on Friday night and put Nicasio in who is not a closer to close a game against your biggest division rival in a game you absolutely needed to win. Blame the fans for the mismanagement of this team that's what typical Pirates management apologists like to do instead of blaming the management team or the players on the field who aren't good enough to make this team a playoff contender again.
What does this mean? Who is blaming the fans on strategic moves?
Well you're acting like nobody is allowed to complain about what happened on Friday night with Clint using Nicasio and if this team doesn't win a game it should have won that nothing should be said about it which is beyond ridiculous.
Yea it's the fans fault that Hurdle didn't use Rivero for 2 innings on Friday night and put Nicasio in who is not a closer to close a game against your biggest division rival in a game you absolutely needed to win. Blame the fans for the mismanagement of this team that's what typical Pirates management apologists like to do instead of blaming the management team or the players on the field who aren't good enough to make this team a playoff contender again.
What does this mean? Who is blaming the fans on strategic moves?
Well you're acting like nobody is allowed to complain about what happened on Friday night with Clint using Nicasio and if this team doesn't win a game it should have won that nothing should be said about it which is beyond ridiculous.
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steve49
June 17th. I really don't like Arrieta.
212630383621666A13343E323A3F7D303C3E530 wrote: If Hurdle used Rivero for 2 innings Friday, he doesn't go 1 2/3 last night. You can't run the guy out there every night for as long as you want. These are human beings.
This is true. That said....IMO , do what the rest of baseball is doing. Rivero should be designated as the closer. You get to the point where he can enter the game as best you can. Nobody is doing the "leverage or "match up " thing as we speak. Looks to me like baseball , at least for now , has decided BP
s function best when pitchers are given "roles." How many saves does Andrew Miller have this year ? No team in baseball , to my knowledge , has an effective closer that they will have pitch the 8th because of the match up's. Seems to me that nothing blows a BP apart like blowing 9th inning saves.
Blow it the 8th or the 9th....in the end both are devastating. We need some help in the pen, Clint can't manage around this reality.
The BP is not Hurdles fault and I'm not saying that. My point is Hurdle is not going to get us extra wins by playing the "match up game." Do what very other team in baseball is doing. You have early inning BP guys , late inning guys and a closer. Give me a team that doesn't do that ? Yeah .. maybe with the Tigers , it makes sense . Geez.. even San Diego went back to just using Mauer. I want someone to name an outstanding closer type pitcher that shares the 9th inning with another pitcher due to "match ups."
This is true. That said....IMO , do what the rest of baseball is doing. Rivero should be designated as the closer. You get to the point where he can enter the game as best you can. Nobody is doing the "leverage or "match up " thing as we speak. Looks to me like baseball , at least for now , has decided BP
s function best when pitchers are given "roles." How many saves does Andrew Miller have this year ? No team in baseball , to my knowledge , has an effective closer that they will have pitch the 8th because of the match up's. Seems to me that nothing blows a BP apart like blowing 9th inning saves.
Blow it the 8th or the 9th....in the end both are devastating. We need some help in the pen, Clint can't manage around this reality.
The BP is not Hurdles fault and I'm not saying that. My point is Hurdle is not going to get us extra wins by playing the "match up game." Do what very other team in baseball is doing. You have early inning BP guys , late inning guys and a closer. Give me a team that doesn't do that ? Yeah .. maybe with the Tigers , it makes sense . Geez.. even San Diego went back to just using Mauer. I want someone to name an outstanding closer type pitcher that shares the 9th inning with another pitcher due to "match ups."
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rucker59@gmail.com
June 17th. I really don't like Arrieta.
5B5C4D5E4D1C11280 wrote: If Hurdle used Rivero for 2 innings Friday, he doesn't go 1 2/3 last night. You can't run the guy out there every night for as long as you want. These are human beings.
This is true. That said....IMO , do what the rest of baseball is doing. Rivero should be designated as the closer. You get to the point where he can enter the game as best you can. Nobody is doing the "leverage or "match up " thing as we speak. Looks to me like baseball , at least for now , has decided BP
s function best when pitchers are given "roles." How many saves does Andrew Miller have this year ? No team in baseball , to my knowledge , has an effective closer that they will have pitch the 8th because of the match up's. Seems to me that nothing blows a BP apart like blowing 9th inning saves.
Blow it the 8th or the 9th....in the end both are devastating. We need some help in the pen, Clint can't manage around this reality.
The BP is not Hurdles fault and I'm not saying that. My point is Hurdle is not going to get us extra wins by playing the "match up game." Do what very other team in baseball is doing. You have early inning BP guys , late inning guys and a closer. Give me a team that doesn't do that ? Yeah .. maybe with the Tigers , it makes sense . Geez.. even San Diego went back to just using Mauer. I want someone to name an outstanding closer type pitcher that shares the 9th inning with another pitcher due to "match ups."
I probably worded my post poorly. I wasn't disagreeing with you, I think you're probably right. My point was meant to be that with the state of the pen, it doesn't matter which way Clint manages.
This is true. That said....IMO , do what the rest of baseball is doing. Rivero should be designated as the closer. You get to the point where he can enter the game as best you can. Nobody is doing the "leverage or "match up " thing as we speak. Looks to me like baseball , at least for now , has decided BP
s function best when pitchers are given "roles." How many saves does Andrew Miller have this year ? No team in baseball , to my knowledge , has an effective closer that they will have pitch the 8th because of the match up's. Seems to me that nothing blows a BP apart like blowing 9th inning saves.
Blow it the 8th or the 9th....in the end both are devastating. We need some help in the pen, Clint can't manage around this reality.
The BP is not Hurdles fault and I'm not saying that. My point is Hurdle is not going to get us extra wins by playing the "match up game." Do what very other team in baseball is doing. You have early inning BP guys , late inning guys and a closer. Give me a team that doesn't do that ? Yeah .. maybe with the Tigers , it makes sense . Geez.. even San Diego went back to just using Mauer. I want someone to name an outstanding closer type pitcher that shares the 9th inning with another pitcher due to "match ups."
I probably worded my post poorly. I wasn't disagreeing with you, I think you're probably right. My point was meant to be that with the state of the pen, it doesn't matter which way Clint manages.
June 17th. I really don't like Arrieta.
The point is that Friday night was a special case. It is rare that you have 3 (excellent) lefthanded hitters due up late in a close game. That is why Hurdle used Rivero in the 8th. Chapman, one of the best in the game, has been used like this many times. It's ok to play the matchups in a no-brainer situation. The dumb thing would be to say "this is my closer, he's pitching the 9th. Let's have Nicasio try to shut down 3 lefty hitters in the 8th."
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Bobster21
June 17th. I really don't like Arrieta.
The closer concept only works well when you also have a strong setup man. It's great to have a closer who slams the door in the 9th. But if you don't have the strong set up guy, the closer gets fewer leads to save and often sits idle in the pen watching the other relievers blow the game in an earlier inning. In those cases, managers can either blindly follow the formula and accept losing games in the 7th or 8th in order to keep the closer fresh for the 9th in those games where the lead hasn't gotten away. Or they can use the closer more liberally and try to make sure there is still a lead by the 9th even if that means using another pitcher for that inning. That seems to be the situation hurdle finds himself in. For a guy who usually adheres strictly to formulas, I'm glad he's thinking outside the box. I don't care what other teams do. Some don't have the right personnel for the closer concept but do it anyway. That's not good managing.
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Bobster21
June 17th. I really don't like Arrieta.
More and more I'm finding Joe Block annoying. Sometimes it's his attempts at humor. Sometimes it's just the inflection in his voice that suggests he's just talking to hear himself talk. Sometimes it's his forced efforts to draw Walk or Blass into a conversation by asking them questions in which the answer is obvious.
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steve49
June 17th. I really don't like Arrieta.
3C373F3336372C696F182139303737763B37580 wrote: Cleveland Indians.
Nope. They use Miller in the late innings and Allen to close. Both are outstanding and I believe Miler is used earlier as he has way more versatility and can easily go 2 + innings. He has zero (O) saves this year.
Nope. They use Miller in the late innings and Allen to close. Both are outstanding and I believe Miler is used earlier as he has way more versatility and can easily go 2 + innings. He has zero (O) saves this year.
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steve49
June 17th. I really don't like Arrieta.
7572646C6275323E47606A666E6B2964686A070 wrote: If Hurdle used Rivero for 2 innings Friday, he doesn't go 1 2/3 last night. You can't run the guy out there every night for as long as you want. These are human beings.
This is true. That said....IMO , do what the rest of baseball is doing. Rivero should be designated as the closer. You get to the point where he can enter the game as best you can. Nobody is doing the "leverage or "match up " thing as we speak. Looks to me like baseball , at least for now , has decided BP
s function best when pitchers are given "roles." How many saves does Andrew Miller have this year ? No team in baseball , to my knowledge , has an effective closer that they will have pitch the 8th because of the match up's. Seems to me that nothing blows a BP apart like blowing 9th inning saves.
Blow it the 8th or the 9th....in the end both are devastating. We need some help in the pen, Clint can't manage around this reality.
The BP is not Hurdles fault and I'm not saying that. My point is Hurdle is not going to get us extra wins by playing the "match up game." Do what very other team in baseball is doing. You have early inning BP guys , late inning guys and a closer. Give me a team that doesn't do that ? Yeah .. maybe with the Tigers , it makes sense . Geez.. even San Diego went back to just using Mauer. I want someone to name an outstanding closer type pitcher that shares the 9th inning with another pitcher due to "match ups."
I probably worded my post poorly. I wasn't disagreeing with you, I think you're probably right. My point was meant to be that with the state of the pen, it doesn't matter which way Clint manages.
No .. you worded to fine. I was just agreeing with you that it's not Hurdle's fault that he has just 1 BP stud. I then went on to say what I did think was Hurdle's fault.... that being the reluctance to just name Rivero the closer and use him that way.
This is true. That said....IMO , do what the rest of baseball is doing. Rivero should be designated as the closer. You get to the point where he can enter the game as best you can. Nobody is doing the "leverage or "match up " thing as we speak. Looks to me like baseball , at least for now , has decided BP
s function best when pitchers are given "roles." How many saves does Andrew Miller have this year ? No team in baseball , to my knowledge , has an effective closer that they will have pitch the 8th because of the match up's. Seems to me that nothing blows a BP apart like blowing 9th inning saves.
Blow it the 8th or the 9th....in the end both are devastating. We need some help in the pen, Clint can't manage around this reality.
The BP is not Hurdles fault and I'm not saying that. My point is Hurdle is not going to get us extra wins by playing the "match up game." Do what very other team in baseball is doing. You have early inning BP guys , late inning guys and a closer. Give me a team that doesn't do that ? Yeah .. maybe with the Tigers , it makes sense . Geez.. even San Diego went back to just using Mauer. I want someone to name an outstanding closer type pitcher that shares the 9th inning with another pitcher due to "match ups."
I probably worded my post poorly. I wasn't disagreeing with you, I think you're probably right. My point was meant to be that with the state of the pen, it doesn't matter which way Clint manages.
No .. you worded to fine. I was just agreeing with you that it's not Hurdle's fault that he has just 1 BP stud. I then went on to say what I did think was Hurdle's fault.... that being the reluctance to just name Rivero the closer and use him that way.