5F6365637871677E100 wrote: It would not surprise me in the least to see them pair McCutchen and Cole together to pry Goldschmidt from Arizona and move Bell to the outfield.
Cutch and Cole won't get a return phone call. But Marte and Cole will.
But I can already see it: let players walk from a 98 win team but we'll bring back a sub .500.
I'm betting Neal can see the same thing. Move Bell to RF, trade from strength and bring a real 1st base to the Pirates. Or we could just replay 2016....
Opps. Scratch Cole. His value this off season has just fallen theough the floor.
Josh Bell
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Josh Bell
People wanted Alvarez gone. He was replaced with Jaso. After April, Jaso went down hill. But people liked that move.
People thought Harrison was better than Walker. Harrison has better defense. Harrison hustles. People liked that move too.
Those two moves did not work out. But the majority of people thought it was a good move.
Bell can solve the 1B problems. His defense is pretty bad, but if he hits, who cares.
If McCutchen can pull in a Goldschmidt, then we should keep McCutchen because that means that guy is pretty good.
I just hope 2016 was a bad year by McCutchen, Cole, and Cervelli. There is no pattern just yet that their 2016 will be the norm.
People thought Harrison was better than Walker. Harrison has better defense. Harrison hustles. People liked that move too.
Those two moves did not work out. But the majority of people thought it was a good move.
Bell can solve the 1B problems. His defense is pretty bad, but if he hits, who cares.
If McCutchen can pull in a Goldschmidt, then we should keep McCutchen because that means that guy is pretty good.
I just hope 2016 was a bad year by McCutchen, Cole, and Cervelli. There is no pattern just yet that their 2016 will be the norm.
Josh Bell
575C54585D5C470204734A525B5C5C1D505C330 wrote: People wanted Alvarez gone. He was replaced with Jaso. After April, Jaso went down hill. But people liked that move.
People thought Harrison was better than Walker. Harrison has better defense. Harrison hustles. People liked that move too.
Those two moves did not work out. But the majority of people thought it was a good move.
Bell can solve the 1B problems. His defense is pretty bad, but if he hits, who cares.
If McCutchen can pull in a Goldschmidt, then we should keep McCutchen because that means that guy is pretty good.
I just hope 2016 was a bad year by McCutchen, Cole, and Cervelli. There is no pattern just yet that their 2016 will be the norm.
I wanted Alvarez gone. He wasn't good. I didn't like Jaso move at all. He did not solve the problem. He was a converted band aid. Typical move by this organization.
I didn't like Harrison over Walker either. We lost on two occasions right there. Trade Walker for Niese, which I laughed at the time knowing Niese sucked. We trade Niese for Bastardo which is another bad move. So, Walker for Bastardo. Harrison was super in his role as super utility man. Now that he has settled in as a starter, his flaws are noticeable.
As far as Cutch goes, I would rather move him NOW than later. If you can get Goldschmidt for him, you do that quickly without asking questions. Why? Because Goldie is a longer term solution that Cutch as far as this organization. Everyone knows Cutch is gone once free agency hits. His body language sucked this entire year. He looked disinterested. Give me an every day 1B man that can hit for power and average instead of a younger cheap version that can hit but fields like Alvarez.
People thought Harrison was better than Walker. Harrison has better defense. Harrison hustles. People liked that move too.
Those two moves did not work out. But the majority of people thought it was a good move.
Bell can solve the 1B problems. His defense is pretty bad, but if he hits, who cares.
If McCutchen can pull in a Goldschmidt, then we should keep McCutchen because that means that guy is pretty good.
I just hope 2016 was a bad year by McCutchen, Cole, and Cervelli. There is no pattern just yet that their 2016 will be the norm.
I wanted Alvarez gone. He wasn't good. I didn't like Jaso move at all. He did not solve the problem. He was a converted band aid. Typical move by this organization.
I didn't like Harrison over Walker either. We lost on two occasions right there. Trade Walker for Niese, which I laughed at the time knowing Niese sucked. We trade Niese for Bastardo which is another bad move. So, Walker for Bastardo. Harrison was super in his role as super utility man. Now that he has settled in as a starter, his flaws are noticeable.
As far as Cutch goes, I would rather move him NOW than later. If you can get Goldschmidt for him, you do that quickly without asking questions. Why? Because Goldie is a longer term solution that Cutch as far as this organization. Everyone knows Cutch is gone once free agency hits. His body language sucked this entire year. He looked disinterested. Give me an every day 1B man that can hit for power and average instead of a younger cheap version that can hit but fields like Alvarez.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Josh Bell
I think everyone would take that deal: McCutchen for Goldschmidt. I just don't think the Diamondbacks would make that deal.
Its been a long time since the Pirates had a true first baseman. But trading for one with a current player on the roster creates another hole too.
I do think McCutchen could sign an extension with the Pirates. But after this season, I am not sure if the Pirates will make that a priority.
Its been a long time since the Pirates had a true first baseman. But trading for one with a current player on the roster creates another hole too.
I do think McCutchen could sign an extension with the Pirates. But after this season, I am not sure if the Pirates will make that a priority.
Josh Bell
5C575F5356574C090F784159505757165B57380 wrote: I think everyone would take that deal: McCutchen for Goldschmidt. I just don't think the Diamondbacks would make that deal.
Its been a long time since the Pirates had a true first baseman. But trading for one with a current player on the roster creates another hole too.
I do think McCutchen could sign an extension with the Pirates. But after this season, I am not sure if the Pirates will make that a priority.
Sure it creates a hole elsewhere. However, outfielders are easier to find than first baseman like Goldie. An outfield of Marte, Polanco and Bell wouldn't be that bad. I'd take my chances with that outfield knowing we have first base covered.
At the beginning of the year, we had several looming questions. The top two were at first and on the mound as in starters. We haven't found a single answer yet amongst them.
I'm not sure Cutch would be as open to an extension as you think. His body language this year looks as though he wishes he was elsewhere.
Pittsburgh has 22 straight losing years. Then all the sudden we put three winning seasons together; made the wild card game twice and advanced once. The problem is, UNLIKE the Kansas City Royals (a similar franchise in many regards), they didn't try to take that next step. They were satisfied where they were - competing for a wild card playoff spot. The moves or lack there of suggest this.
Next year, we have the same questions looming with a few others. Then again, who's on first has been a question with this organization since the Carter Administration.
Its been a long time since the Pirates had a true first baseman. But trading for one with a current player on the roster creates another hole too.
I do think McCutchen could sign an extension with the Pirates. But after this season, I am not sure if the Pirates will make that a priority.
Sure it creates a hole elsewhere. However, outfielders are easier to find than first baseman like Goldie. An outfield of Marte, Polanco and Bell wouldn't be that bad. I'd take my chances with that outfield knowing we have first base covered.
At the beginning of the year, we had several looming questions. The top two were at first and on the mound as in starters. We haven't found a single answer yet amongst them.
I'm not sure Cutch would be as open to an extension as you think. His body language this year looks as though he wishes he was elsewhere.
Pittsburgh has 22 straight losing years. Then all the sudden we put three winning seasons together; made the wild card game twice and advanced once. The problem is, UNLIKE the Kansas City Royals (a similar franchise in many regards), they didn't try to take that next step. They were satisfied where they were - competing for a wild card playoff spot. The moves or lack there of suggest this.
Next year, we have the same questions looming with a few others. Then again, who's on first has been a question with this organization since the Carter Administration.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Josh Bell
I don't think they "aren't trying". Of course they are trying. The moves didn't work out. If they weren't trying and wanted to just pocket money, why extend Harrison, Marte, Polanco, Cervelli and sign Jaso? See, it makes no sense. So, they are trying. Their plan just failed. It almost worked. I few games here and there in June could have made a hug difference.
They made three wild cards in a row. Not many teams make three playoffs in a row, even with the wild card. So, that was pretty remarkable. Yeah, it sucks they didn't advance further or get to the NLCS. But Wild Cards teams have made it to the World Series and won it too.
I would be ok with Bell in RF if Goldschmidt was to replace McCutchen. But like you said, it is harder to find that big time 1B, so it will be hard for Arizona to move him.
McCutchen is having a down year. Hopefully, it will change next year. I am not sure what he has to do with his body language to show he likes it in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh put him on the map, he is the face of the team and his wife is from the area. Pittsburgh already paid him once too. His body language is saying he is having a bad year, not that he hates it in Pittsburgh.
They made three wild cards in a row. Not many teams make three playoffs in a row, even with the wild card. So, that was pretty remarkable. Yeah, it sucks they didn't advance further or get to the NLCS. But Wild Cards teams have made it to the World Series and won it too.
I would be ok with Bell in RF if Goldschmidt was to replace McCutchen. But like you said, it is harder to find that big time 1B, so it will be hard for Arizona to move him.
McCutchen is having a down year. Hopefully, it will change next year. I am not sure what he has to do with his body language to show he likes it in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh put him on the map, he is the face of the team and his wife is from the area. Pittsburgh already paid him once too. His body language is saying he is having a bad year, not that he hates it in Pittsburgh.
Josh Bell
3D363E3237362D686E192038313636773A36590 wrote: I don't think they "aren't trying". Of course they are trying. The moves didn't work out. If they weren't trying and wanted to just pocket money, why extend Harrison, Marte, Polanco, Cervelli and sign Jaso? See, it makes no sense. So, they are trying. Their plan just failed. It almost worked. I few games here and there in June could have made a hug difference.
They made three wild cards in a row. Not many teams make three playoffs in a row, even with the wild card. So, that was pretty remarkable. Yeah, it sucks they didn't advance further or get to the NLCS. But Wild Cards teams have made it to the World Series and won it too.
I would be ok with Bell in RF if Goldschmidt was to replace McCutchen. But like you said, it is harder to find that big time 1B, so it will be hard for Arizona to move him.
McCutchen is having a down year. Hopefully, it will change next year. I am not sure what he has to do with his body language to show he likes it in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh put him on the map, he is the face of the team and his wife is from the area. Pittsburgh already paid him once too. His body language is saying he is having a bad year, not that he hates it in Pittsburgh.
Well said.
They made three wild cards in a row. Not many teams make three playoffs in a row, even with the wild card. So, that was pretty remarkable. Yeah, it sucks they didn't advance further or get to the NLCS. But Wild Cards teams have made it to the World Series and won it too.
I would be ok with Bell in RF if Goldschmidt was to replace McCutchen. But like you said, it is harder to find that big time 1B, so it will be hard for Arizona to move him.
McCutchen is having a down year. Hopefully, it will change next year. I am not sure what he has to do with his body language to show he likes it in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh put him on the map, he is the face of the team and his wife is from the area. Pittsburgh already paid him once too. His body language is saying he is having a bad year, not that he hates it in Pittsburgh.
Well said.
Josh Bell
You can't continue to sell to a fan base the moves that have been made. You lose a valuable roster player and replace him with reclamation project. That suggests they aren't trying to me. I understand finances. I have never said go Red Sox or Cubs and spend. How about using some of that $$$ during the wild card stretches and reinvest on good players, not substandard? The Pirates have made a lot of money recently.
I don't think they are trying, even in the trade market. That is where we can get a good proven commodity. We aren't going to win a free agent bidding war.
Sorry, agree to disagree. We have seen a similar organization from a historical standpoint and a market standpoint, make necessary moves to move ahead. Meanwhile, we are all about signing Jaso and trading Walker for a garbage arm because he is controllable? That is the difference. One organization has tried; this one is fine with the product they have and doesn't want to improve.
Sure, Freese, Joyce have done well. Those were good value pickups. However, NH didn't solve one single other thing that was needed in the offseason. I don't have faith he will do so this one either with MORE problems and questions that need to be answered.
I don't think they are trying, even in the trade market. That is where we can get a good proven commodity. We aren't going to win a free agent bidding war.
Sorry, agree to disagree. We have seen a similar organization from a historical standpoint and a market standpoint, make necessary moves to move ahead. Meanwhile, we are all about signing Jaso and trading Walker for a garbage arm because he is controllable? That is the difference. One organization has tried; this one is fine with the product they have and doesn't want to improve.
Sure, Freese, Joyce have done well. Those were good value pickups. However, NH didn't solve one single other thing that was needed in the offseason. I don't have faith he will do so this one either with MORE problems and questions that need to be answered.
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ScottinMass
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:26 am
Josh Bell
So the question is, are the Pirates better with:
OF: Polanco, Marte, Bell,
1B: Goldschmidt (or comparable)
And some type of pitching lose (Cole or Glasnow/Williams, etc)
-OR-
OF: Marte, Cutch, Polanco
1B; Bell
And we keep all of our pitching
OF: Polanco, Marte, Bell,
1B: Goldschmidt (or comparable)
And some type of pitching lose (Cole or Glasnow/Williams, etc)
-OR-
OF: Marte, Cutch, Polanco
1B; Bell
And we keep all of our pitching
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Josh Bell
7F6F6E594F4F432C0 wrote: You can't continue to sell to a fan base the moves that have been made. You lose a valuable roster player and replace him with reclamation project. That suggests they aren't trying to me. I understand finances. I have never said go Red Sox or Cubs and spend. How about using some of that $$$ during the wild card stretches and reinvest on good players, not substandard? The Pirates have made a lot of money recently.
I don't think they are trying, even in the trade market. That is where we can get a good proven commodity. We aren't going to win a free agent bidding war.
Sorry, agree to disagree. We have seen a similar organization from a historical standpoint and a market standpoint, make necessary moves to move ahead. Meanwhile, we are all about signing Jaso and trading Walker for a garbage arm because he is controllable? That is the difference. One organization has tried; this one is fine with the product they have and doesn't want to improve.
Sure, Freese, Joyce have done well. Those were good value pickups. However, NH didn't solve one single other thing that was needed in the offseason. I don't have faith he will do so this one either with MORE problems and questions that need to be answered.
No, you said they aren't trying.
They brought in a new 1B because they weren't happy with the one they had. They actually just waived him too.
They brought in two pitchers to help the rotation and traded for another. Three new pitchers.
They brought in bench players and bullpen arms too.
Not all of these moves worked, but they certainly were trying. It just so happens the current players who were supposed to carry the team did not play well (Liriano, McCutchen, Harrison, Cervelli, Kang, Cole, Watson) or got injured.
But yes, they tried. They probably care a lot more than you and I since their careers and money are on the line.
I don't think they are trying, even in the trade market. That is where we can get a good proven commodity. We aren't going to win a free agent bidding war.
Sorry, agree to disagree. We have seen a similar organization from a historical standpoint and a market standpoint, make necessary moves to move ahead. Meanwhile, we are all about signing Jaso and trading Walker for a garbage arm because he is controllable? That is the difference. One organization has tried; this one is fine with the product they have and doesn't want to improve.
Sure, Freese, Joyce have done well. Those were good value pickups. However, NH didn't solve one single other thing that was needed in the offseason. I don't have faith he will do so this one either with MORE problems and questions that need to be answered.
No, you said they aren't trying.
They brought in a new 1B because they weren't happy with the one they had. They actually just waived him too.
They brought in two pitchers to help the rotation and traded for another. Three new pitchers.
They brought in bench players and bullpen arms too.
Not all of these moves worked, but they certainly were trying. It just so happens the current players who were supposed to carry the team did not play well (Liriano, McCutchen, Harrison, Cervelli, Kang, Cole, Watson) or got injured.
But yes, they tried. They probably care a lot more than you and I since their careers and money are on the line.