I think signing Russell Martin was NH's best move. They had been struggling with the catcher position for a number of years and Martin was excellent defensively, great working with pitchers and a team leader accustomed to playing on competitive teams (LA, NY). He seemed to give the Bucs legitimacy as a post season contender.
But much of NH's success seems to have been from unexpected sources. Liriano was a stud rookie pitcher in 2006 until he ended the season on the DL needing TJS. Afterward, he was never the same and was coming off back to back 5+ ERA seasons when the Pirates took a flier on him in 2013. He responded with his best season since his rookie year. Melancon was coming off a terrible season with a 6.20 ERA but immediately became one of MLB's top relievers once the Pirates got him. Burnett was 35 and a 13 year veteran when the Pirates got him. They traded 2 nobody minor leaguers and the Yankees paid nearly all of Burnett's salary. The Yankees just wanted to get rid of Burnett after 2 poor seasons with ERAs of 5.15 and 5.26. But like Liriano and Melancon, Burnett turned his career around with the Pirates. And when he was injured they made a last minute TDL deal for Happ. Happ's career had been going steadily downhill and he hadn't had a good season since 2009. But like the others, he completely turned himself around with the Pirates.
A lot of credit has to go to Ray Searage who had a knack for helping seemingly washed up pitchers become dominant again. But Searage didn't have a lot of success with young pitchers trying to establish themselves.
Neal Huntington's greatest success
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Neal Huntington's greatest success
it is interesting about catchers. On a Cardinals board the other day several posters were criticizing Molina.
They said he was setting up on the corners for Reyes and Reyes doesn't have the ability to hit them.
The fans were saying that Molina didn't adjust to the pitchers capabilities.
I was surprised that no one countered their arguments.
They said he was setting up on the corners for Reyes and Reyes doesn't have the ability to hit them.
The fans were saying that Molina didn't adjust to the pitchers capabilities.
I was surprised that no one countered their arguments.
-
WildwoodDave2
Neal Huntington's greatest success
507677607666150 wrote: it is interesting about catchers. On a Cardinals board the other day several posters were criticizing Molina.
They said he was setting up on the corners for Reyes and Reyes doesn't have the ability to hit them.
The fans were saying that Molina didn't adjust to the pitchers capabilities.
I was surprised that no one countered their arguments.
Hall of Fame Catcher, probably on the first ballot.
They said he was setting up on the corners for Reyes and Reyes doesn't have the ability to hit them.
The fans were saying that Molina didn't adjust to the pitchers capabilities.
I was surprised that no one countered their arguments.
Hall of Fame Catcher, probably on the first ballot.
-
SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3630
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Neal Huntington's greatest success
043A3F37243C3C371732253661530 wrote: it is interesting about catchers. On a Cardinals board the other day several posters were criticizing Molina.
They said he was setting up on the corners for Reyes and Reyes doesn't have the ability to hit them.
The fans were saying that Molina didn't adjust to the pitchers capabilities.
I was surprised that no one countered their arguments.
Hall of Fame Catcher, probably on the first ballot.
Best Fans In Baseball™
They said he was setting up on the corners for Reyes and Reyes doesn't have the ability to hit them.
The fans were saying that Molina didn't adjust to the pitchers capabilities.
I was surprised that no one countered their arguments.
Hall of Fame Catcher, probably on the first ballot.
Best Fans In Baseball™
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Neal Huntington's greatest success
Extending Cutch, Marte would make my Top Ten.
Putting together the bullpen would be in there somewhere. That took some trading as I recall.
Taking the flier on J.A. Happ. Would anyone else at the time?
Cutting bait on Pedro Alvarez as early as he did. I expected that to drag on a bit longer in hopes...... Giving up on your own selection isn't a pleasant thing to do.
Taking Corey Dickerson for nothing, though he didn't hang very long. That might be around #15.
Give a GM enough time. They'll do some good things.
Putting together the bullpen would be in there somewhere. That took some trading as I recall.
Taking the flier on J.A. Happ. Would anyone else at the time?
Cutting bait on Pedro Alvarez as early as he did. I expected that to drag on a bit longer in hopes...... Giving up on your own selection isn't a pleasant thing to do.
Taking Corey Dickerson for nothing, though he didn't hang very long. That might be around #15.
Give a GM enough time. They'll do some good things.
Neal Huntington's greatest success
50626E6E7A486B626F6A6562030 wrote: it is interesting about catchers. On a Cardinals board the other day several posters were criticizing Molina.
They said he was setting up on the corners for Reyes and Reyes doesn't have the ability to hit them.
The fans were saying that Molina didn't adjust to the pitchers capabilities.
I was surprised that no one countered their arguments.
Hall of Fame Catcher, probably on the first ballot.
Best Fans In Baseball™
People who post on message boards ≠ the fan base.
That's true here as well.
They said he was setting up on the corners for Reyes and Reyes doesn't have the ability to hit them.
The fans were saying that Molina didn't adjust to the pitchers capabilities.
I was surprised that no one countered their arguments.
Hall of Fame Catcher, probably on the first ballot.
Best Fans In Baseball™
People who post on message boards ≠ the fan base.
That's true here as well.
-
SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3630
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Neal Huntington's greatest success
774255555E6755555E5955300 wrote:
Give a GM enough time. They'll do some good things.
Beyond that--and I know this isn't popular--I think that anyone that climbs to the position of major league GM knows a little something, whether the end results and their ability to put everything together end up well or not. Sometimes we act like some of these guys are pants-on-head stupid and I'm not sure how that could be.
Give a GM enough time. They'll do some good things.
Beyond that--and I know this isn't popular--I think that anyone that climbs to the position of major league GM knows a little something, whether the end results and their ability to put everything together end up well or not. Sometimes we act like some of these guys are pants-on-head stupid and I'm not sure how that could be.
-
Bobster21
Neal Huntington's greatest success
5F6A7D7D764F7D7D76717D180 wrote: Extending Cutch, Marte would make my Top Ten.
Putting together the bullpen would be in there somewhere. That took some trading as I recall.
Taking the flier on J.A. Happ. Would anyone else at the time?
Cutting bait on Pedro Alvarez as early as he did. I expected that to drag on a bit longer in hopes...... Giving up on your own selection isn't a pleasant thing to do.
Taking Corey Dickerson for nothing, though he didn't hang very long. That might be around #15.
Give a GM enough time. They'll do some good things.
Happ was a desperation move. Burnett had to leave a game with elbow pain on July 30. That gave them 1 day to find a replacement before the TDL. Happ had been struggling for years and was having a very bad season for Seattle. But it was the best NH could do on short notice. But it turned out great.
I would disagree that they cut bait with Alvarez early. They had him thru 2015 and he was a FA in 2016. He had become such a liability on defense that Hurdle kept him out of the lineup in the 2015 WC game and started Rodriguez at 1B until Rodriguez's spot in the order came up in the bottom of the 3rd inning. Alvarez PH and stayed in the game but at least he was kept out of the field for 3 innings. (That was the day Rodriguez beat up the water cooler when he was PH for in the 3rd.) The Pirates simply ran out of places to hide Alvarez. He was a FA and could only be a DH, which precluded work in the NL. And even the AL teams showed little interest in him as a FA. He signed with the Orioles very late in ST the next year for no more than he had made in the final year of his Pirate contract and was used only as a part time player. The next 2 years he shuttled between the Orioles and AAA and that was it for his career.
Putting together the bullpen would be in there somewhere. That took some trading as I recall.
Taking the flier on J.A. Happ. Would anyone else at the time?
Cutting bait on Pedro Alvarez as early as he did. I expected that to drag on a bit longer in hopes...... Giving up on your own selection isn't a pleasant thing to do.
Taking Corey Dickerson for nothing, though he didn't hang very long. That might be around #15.
Give a GM enough time. They'll do some good things.
Happ was a desperation move. Burnett had to leave a game with elbow pain on July 30. That gave them 1 day to find a replacement before the TDL. Happ had been struggling for years and was having a very bad season for Seattle. But it was the best NH could do on short notice. But it turned out great.
I would disagree that they cut bait with Alvarez early. They had him thru 2015 and he was a FA in 2016. He had become such a liability on defense that Hurdle kept him out of the lineup in the 2015 WC game and started Rodriguez at 1B until Rodriguez's spot in the order came up in the bottom of the 3rd inning. Alvarez PH and stayed in the game but at least he was kept out of the field for 3 innings. (That was the day Rodriguez beat up the water cooler when he was PH for in the 3rd.) The Pirates simply ran out of places to hide Alvarez. He was a FA and could only be a DH, which precluded work in the NL. And even the AL teams showed little interest in him as a FA. He signed with the Orioles very late in ST the next year for no more than he had made in the final year of his Pirate contract and was used only as a part time player. The next 2 years he shuttled between the Orioles and AAA and that was it for his career.
Neal Huntington's greatest success
43646F4C010 wrote: it is interesting about catchers. On a Cardinals board the other day several posters were criticizing Molina.
They said he was setting up on the corners for Reyes and Reyes doesn't have the ability to hit them.
The fans were saying that Molina didn't adjust to the pitchers capabilities.
I was surprised that no one countered their arguments.
Hall of Fame Catcher, probably on the first ballot.
Best Fans In Baseball™
People who post on message boards ≠ the fan base.
That's true here as well.
yeah, I was just surprised at comments but on the other hand there was probably only a small percentage of the posters remaining.
It also seemed like a "what has he done lately (as in last 30 minutes) type of comment.
They said he was setting up on the corners for Reyes and Reyes doesn't have the ability to hit them.
The fans were saying that Molina didn't adjust to the pitchers capabilities.
I was surprised that no one countered their arguments.
Hall of Fame Catcher, probably on the first ballot.
Best Fans In Baseball™
People who post on message boards ≠ the fan base.
That's true here as well.
yeah, I was just surprised at comments but on the other hand there was probably only a small percentage of the posters remaining.
It also seemed like a "what has he done lately (as in last 30 minutes) type of comment.
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Neal Huntington's greatest success
65575B5B4F7D5E575A5F5057360 wrote:
Give a GM enough time. They'll do some good things.
Beyond that--and I know this isn't popular--I think that anyone that climbs to the position of major league GM knows a little something, whether the end results and their ability to put everything together end up well or not. Sometimes we act like some of these guys are pants-on-head stupid and I'm not sure how that could be.
Agree with all.
Take the very best- whomever that is.
Take the world's worst.
The difference between the two could come down to two decisions a year. Talent evaluation in any occupation isn't easy. Then, you have factors like money, injury, luck, etc.
Those two decisions can make them or break them. It can cost their teams years....or, they could win for a couple years.
That's why they make the big bucks. And, it's why some lose jobs.
Give a GM enough time. They'll do some good things.
Beyond that--and I know this isn't popular--I think that anyone that climbs to the position of major league GM knows a little something, whether the end results and their ability to put everything together end up well or not. Sometimes we act like some of these guys are pants-on-head stupid and I'm not sure how that could be.
Agree with all.
Take the very best- whomever that is.
Take the world's worst.
The difference between the two could come down to two decisions a year. Talent evaluation in any occupation isn't easy. Then, you have factors like money, injury, luck, etc.
Those two decisions can make them or break them. It can cost their teams years....or, they could win for a couple years.
That's why they make the big bucks. And, it's why some lose jobs.