764354545F6654545F5854310 wrote: A team that isn't focused on winning will not win.
Any team. Any time. It's playing for the fun of it.
I don't care whether it's the local bowling league team or a major league professional baseball team.
This philosophy is a loser's mentality.
It's hard enough to win in a competitive world when you do focus on winning. To not focus on it makes the improvement process all the more challenging on a club that needs fewer challenges, not more of them.
We complained all least season that the manager wasn't focused on winning. Last place.
Again.
Not saying they shouldn’t be focused on winning of course they should want to go out and win every game. I’m not implying they try and lose but the reality of the situation is this team currently constructed right now is not good enough to win and ultimately is not gonna win when it comes down to it. That’s just the reality of the situation. They have better options right now in Cruz in the Minors and even a few others that will make them a better team I feel both this year and in the coming years if you get these guys up here and get them the experience and play them everyday. I’ll keep saying it if these guys are top tier prospects like they say they are then treat them as such and get them up here playing the Major League’s ASAP. I think right now as we sit here today there is just no excuse at all for guys like Cruz, Gonzales, Priester, Contreras, and Mlodzinski to not all be up here by mid season at the latest and either playing in the lineup everyday like Cruz and Gonzales should be and in the rotation like guys like Priester, Contreras, and Mlodzinski should be.
Cruz
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Cruz
If you're not focused on winning, then you're focus is on the wrong thing, whatever that may be.
Winning is how competitors are evaluated. It's the P&L statement of athletics. It's how we know whether things are going in the proper direction.
We can talk about how much we like the "direction," the "theory," or the person.....but, the record is the record.
If I'm Ben Cherington, I want every person in that organization from the janitor on down to focus on winning. If not, I'll replace them as quickly as I can....with someone who is focused on winning.
For those suspects, since my focus on winning, my expectation is for Cherington to field our best players; those who give the team the highest win probability. It's his responsibility to determine who they are.
They may lose....but, in theory, they would lose less often than the guys they replace.
Winning is how competitors are evaluated. It's the P&L statement of athletics. It's how we know whether things are going in the proper direction.
We can talk about how much we like the "direction," the "theory," or the person.....but, the record is the record.
If I'm Ben Cherington, I want every person in that organization from the janitor on down to focus on winning. If not, I'll replace them as quickly as I can....with someone who is focused on winning.
For those suspects, since my focus on winning, my expectation is for Cherington to field our best players; those who give the team the highest win probability. It's his responsibility to determine who they are.
They may lose....but, in theory, they would lose less often than the guys they replace.
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fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3488
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
Cruz
Cruz has been optioned to Indy according to Jason Mackey.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
Cruz
6D3B2D39362C3C373A2D1F38323E3633713C5F0 wrote: The one thing that gives me faith that the Pirates won’t screw this up is that Huntington is no longer in charge. I trust Cherington’s judgment in all personnel matters far more than I did NH.
I’m all for bringing him up, if it’s what’s best for him. Costing the Pirates games in 2022 due to his inexperience should have no bearing on the decision to having him play in Pittsburgh. But if a couple of hundred at bats in Indy will make him a better major leaguer, than he should play there until he’s ready. I agree with this and this should apply to other guys in the Minors as well this year that are just about Major League ready. Get them up here now and [highlight]quit worrying about wins and losses in 2022.[/highlight] This isn’t a team that’s going to contend why treat it as such. I trust Cherrington to do stuff a lot better then Huntington in regards to young players being called up and fast tracked to the Majors. So what if you haven’t done it before and it’s not their philosophy. Well it should be their philosophy period. When you haven’t won a pennant and playoffs series in 43 years and a division title in 30 years it’s time to do things differently and use a new approach. I really hope the Pirates do this with this great talent they now in their Minor League system which is absolutely loaded. The Pirates really have an excellent shot to be a winning team as soon as maybe even next year in 2023 and definitely in 2024 and 2025. They can’t and shouldn’t screw this up this time.
Wins and losses this season, and maybe even next, shouldn't determine roster spots. It exclusively should be about preparing this initial wave of younger players to perform to their highest level when they're ready to play in the major leagues. If that means some of them go to Altoona some to Indy or some to Pittsburgh, I'm fine with it. And then it should apply to each wave of players after that. Tampa and Oakland have success doing it that way, and have for quite some time, so it's possible.
Pretty sure Cruz doesn't care if your ok with it. Good grief the guy is 23 years old not 18 he has paid his dues and deserves to be in the majors. I'm with Freddy they are going to screw this up if they keep trying to extend their control over this guy.
I’m all for bringing him up, if it’s what’s best for him. Costing the Pirates games in 2022 due to his inexperience should have no bearing on the decision to having him play in Pittsburgh. But if a couple of hundred at bats in Indy will make him a better major leaguer, than he should play there until he’s ready. I agree with this and this should apply to other guys in the Minors as well this year that are just about Major League ready. Get them up here now and [highlight]quit worrying about wins and losses in 2022.[/highlight] This isn’t a team that’s going to contend why treat it as such. I trust Cherrington to do stuff a lot better then Huntington in regards to young players being called up and fast tracked to the Majors. So what if you haven’t done it before and it’s not their philosophy. Well it should be their philosophy period. When you haven’t won a pennant and playoffs series in 43 years and a division title in 30 years it’s time to do things differently and use a new approach. I really hope the Pirates do this with this great talent they now in their Minor League system which is absolutely loaded. The Pirates really have an excellent shot to be a winning team as soon as maybe even next year in 2023 and definitely in 2024 and 2025. They can’t and shouldn’t screw this up this time.
Wins and losses this season, and maybe even next, shouldn't determine roster spots. It exclusively should be about preparing this initial wave of younger players to perform to their highest level when they're ready to play in the major leagues. If that means some of them go to Altoona some to Indy or some to Pittsburgh, I'm fine with it. And then it should apply to each wave of players after that. Tampa and Oakland have success doing it that way, and have for quite some time, so it's possible.
Pretty sure Cruz doesn't care if your ok with it. Good grief the guy is 23 years old not 18 he has paid his dues and deserves to be in the majors. I'm with Freddy they are going to screw this up if they keep trying to extend their control over this guy.
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SteadyFreddy
Cruz
I’m with you Skinny it’s not a good move having him start the year in AAA. He is 24 how much longer does he need to develop if he is this top prospect like everybody says. There is just no excuse period. There isn’t anyone up here now blocking him for a roster spot. It’s just another piss poor excuse by a franchise that just continues to get run poorly under the watch of Bob Nutting. It’s just getting really old and tiresome to watch.
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fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3488
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
Cruz
74534246435E61554243435E270 wrote: I’m with you Skinny it’s not a good move having him start the year in AAA. He is 24 how much longer does he need to develop if he is this top prospect like everybody says. There is just no excuse period. There isn’t anyone up here now blocking him for a roster spot. It’s just another piss poor excuse by a franchise that just continues to get run poorly under the watch of Bob Nutting. It’s just getting really old and tiresome to watch.
I am not as upset with Cruz being sent to Indy. Agree, he is 24, but the pandemic took a full develop season from him and all minor league players. His time at AAA last year was very limited, so the Pirates feel he needs some additional time at AAA, and also time to play the outfield. With the infield prospects in the pipeline I feel the outfield will be Cruz’s eventual position. For some reason, I can accept this decision much better than the Reynolds upcoming arbitration hearing.
I am not as upset with Cruz being sent to Indy. Agree, he is 24, but the pandemic took a full develop season from him and all minor league players. His time at AAA last year was very limited, so the Pirates feel he needs some additional time at AAA, and also time to play the outfield. With the infield prospects in the pipeline I feel the outfield will be Cruz’s eventual position. For some reason, I can accept this decision much better than the Reynolds upcoming arbitration hearing.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Cruz
61797B7C7C6B7A7D606177120 wrote: The one thing that gives me faith that the Pirates won’t screw this up is that Huntington is no longer in charge. I trust Cherington’s judgment in all personnel matters far more than I did NH.
I’m all for bringing him up, if it’s what’s best for him. Costing the Pirates games in 2022 due to his inexperience should have no bearing on the decision to having him play in Pittsburgh. But if a couple of hundred at bats in Indy will make him a better major leaguer, than he should play there until he’s ready. I agree with this and this should apply to other guys in the Minors as well this year that are just about Major League ready. Get them up here now and [highlight]quit worrying about wins and losses in 2022.[/highlight] This isn’t a team that’s going to contend why treat it as such. I trust Cherrington to do stuff a lot better then Huntington in regards to young players being called up and fast tracked to the Majors. So what if you haven’t done it before and it’s not their philosophy. Well it should be their philosophy period. When you haven’t won a pennant and playoffs series in 43 years and a division title in 30 years it’s time to do things differently and use a new approach. I really hope the Pirates do this with this great talent they now in their Minor League system which is absolutely loaded. The Pirates really have an excellent shot to be a winning team as soon as maybe even next year in 2023 and definitely in 2024 and 2025. They can’t and shouldn’t screw this up this time.
Wins and losses this season, and maybe even next, shouldn't determine roster spots. It exclusively should be about preparing this initial wave of younger players to perform to their highest level when they're ready to play in the major leagues. If that means some of them go to Altoona some to Indy or some to Pittsburgh, I'm fine with it. And then it should apply to each wave of players after that. Tampa and Oakland have success doing it that way, and have for quite some time, so it's possible.
Pretty sure Cruz doesn't care if your ok with it. Good grief the guy is 23 years old not 18 he has paid his dues and deserves to be in the majors. I'm with Freddy they are going to screw this up if they keep trying to extend their control over this guy.
This may set a new bar for most inane posts. According to your logic, simply because he’s 23 years old, Cruz has paid his dues and deserves to be in the major leagues.
Having him spend four to six weeks in Indy can only have a positive impact on his and the team’s future, which doesn’t include this season when the Pirates will have a hard time not losing 100 games. You’re willing to perhaps hurt his development for six meaningless weeks in what’s going to be another train wreck of a season. ::)
I’m all for bringing him up, if it’s what’s best for him. Costing the Pirates games in 2022 due to his inexperience should have no bearing on the decision to having him play in Pittsburgh. But if a couple of hundred at bats in Indy will make him a better major leaguer, than he should play there until he’s ready. I agree with this and this should apply to other guys in the Minors as well this year that are just about Major League ready. Get them up here now and [highlight]quit worrying about wins and losses in 2022.[/highlight] This isn’t a team that’s going to contend why treat it as such. I trust Cherrington to do stuff a lot better then Huntington in regards to young players being called up and fast tracked to the Majors. So what if you haven’t done it before and it’s not their philosophy. Well it should be their philosophy period. When you haven’t won a pennant and playoffs series in 43 years and a division title in 30 years it’s time to do things differently and use a new approach. I really hope the Pirates do this with this great talent they now in their Minor League system which is absolutely loaded. The Pirates really have an excellent shot to be a winning team as soon as maybe even next year in 2023 and definitely in 2024 and 2025. They can’t and shouldn’t screw this up this time.
Wins and losses this season, and maybe even next, shouldn't determine roster spots. It exclusively should be about preparing this initial wave of younger players to perform to their highest level when they're ready to play in the major leagues. If that means some of them go to Altoona some to Indy or some to Pittsburgh, I'm fine with it. And then it should apply to each wave of players after that. Tampa and Oakland have success doing it that way, and have for quite some time, so it's possible.
Pretty sure Cruz doesn't care if your ok with it. Good grief the guy is 23 years old not 18 he has paid his dues and deserves to be in the majors. I'm with Freddy they are going to screw this up if they keep trying to extend their control over this guy.
This may set a new bar for most inane posts. According to your logic, simply because he’s 23 years old, Cruz has paid his dues and deserves to be in the major leagues.
Having him spend four to six weeks in Indy can only have a positive impact on his and the team’s future, which doesn’t include this season when the Pirates will have a hard time not losing 100 games. You’re willing to perhaps hurt his development for six meaningless weeks in what’s going to be another train wreck of a season. ::)
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
Cruz
5305130708120209041321060C00080D4F02610 wrote: The one thing that gives me faith that the Pirates won’t screw this up is that Huntington is no longer in charge. I trust Cherington’s judgment in all personnel matters far more than I did NH.
I’m all for bringing him up, if it’s what’s best for him. Costing the Pirates games in 2022 due to his inexperience should have no bearing on the decision to having him play in Pittsburgh. But if a couple of hundred at bats in Indy will make him a better major leaguer, than he should play there until he’s ready. I agree with this and this should apply to other guys in the Minors as well this year that are just about Major League ready. Get them up here now and [highlight]quit worrying about wins and losses in 2022.[/highlight] This isn’t a team that’s going to contend why treat it as such. I trust Cherrington to do stuff a lot better then Huntington in regards to young players being called up and fast tracked to the Majors. So what if you haven’t done it before and it’s not their philosophy. Well it should be their philosophy period. When you haven’t won a pennant and playoffs series in 43 years and a division title in 30 years it’s time to do things differently and use a new approach. I really hope the Pirates do this with this great talent they now in their Minor League system which is absolutely loaded. The Pirates really have an excellent shot to be a winning team as soon as maybe even next year in 2023 and definitely in 2024 and 2025. They can’t and shouldn’t screw this up this time.
Wins and losses this season, and maybe even next, shouldn't determine roster spots. It exclusively should be about preparing this initial wave of younger players to perform to their highest level when they're ready to play in the major leagues. If that means some of them go to Altoona some to Indy or some to Pittsburgh, I'm fine with it. And then it should apply to each wave of players after that. Tampa and Oakland have success doing it that way, and have for quite some time, so it's possible.
Pretty sure Cruz doesn't care if your ok with it. Good grief the guy is 23 years old not 18 he has paid his dues and deserves to be in the majors. I'm with Freddy they are going to screw this up if they keep trying to extend their control over this guy.
This may set a new bar for most inane posts. According to your logic, simply because he’s 23 years old, Cruz has paid his dues and deserves to be in the major leagues.
Having him spend four to six weeks in Indy can only have a positive impact on his and the team’s future, which doesn’t include this season when the Pirates will have a hard time not losing 100 games. You’re willing to perhaps hurt his development for six meaningless weeks in what’s going to be another train wreck of a season. ::)
As usual Doc you think to highly of yourself and your opinion everyone has one and yours for damn sure isn't worth much.
I’m all for bringing him up, if it’s what’s best for him. Costing the Pirates games in 2022 due to his inexperience should have no bearing on the decision to having him play in Pittsburgh. But if a couple of hundred at bats in Indy will make him a better major leaguer, than he should play there until he’s ready. I agree with this and this should apply to other guys in the Minors as well this year that are just about Major League ready. Get them up here now and [highlight]quit worrying about wins and losses in 2022.[/highlight] This isn’t a team that’s going to contend why treat it as such. I trust Cherrington to do stuff a lot better then Huntington in regards to young players being called up and fast tracked to the Majors. So what if you haven’t done it before and it’s not their philosophy. Well it should be their philosophy period. When you haven’t won a pennant and playoffs series in 43 years and a division title in 30 years it’s time to do things differently and use a new approach. I really hope the Pirates do this with this great talent they now in their Minor League system which is absolutely loaded. The Pirates really have an excellent shot to be a winning team as soon as maybe even next year in 2023 and definitely in 2024 and 2025. They can’t and shouldn’t screw this up this time.
Wins and losses this season, and maybe even next, shouldn't determine roster spots. It exclusively should be about preparing this initial wave of younger players to perform to their highest level when they're ready to play in the major leagues. If that means some of them go to Altoona some to Indy or some to Pittsburgh, I'm fine with it. And then it should apply to each wave of players after that. Tampa and Oakland have success doing it that way, and have for quite some time, so it's possible.
Pretty sure Cruz doesn't care if your ok with it. Good grief the guy is 23 years old not 18 he has paid his dues and deserves to be in the majors. I'm with Freddy they are going to screw this up if they keep trying to extend their control over this guy.
This may set a new bar for most inane posts. According to your logic, simply because he’s 23 years old, Cruz has paid his dues and deserves to be in the major leagues.
Having him spend four to six weeks in Indy can only have a positive impact on his and the team’s future, which doesn’t include this season when the Pirates will have a hard time not losing 100 games. You’re willing to perhaps hurt his development for six meaningless weeks in what’s going to be another train wreck of a season. ::)
As usual Doc you think to highly of yourself and your opinion everyone has one and yours for damn sure isn't worth much.
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WildwoodDave2
Cruz
15322327223F00342322223F460 wrote: I’m with you Skinny it’s not a good move having him start the year in AAA. He is 24 how much longer does he need to develop if he is this top prospect like everybody says. There is just no excuse period. There isn’t anyone up here now blocking him for a roster spot. It’s just another piss poor excuse by a franchise that just continues to get run poorly under the watch of Bob Nutting. It’s just getting really old and tiresome to watch.
Totally frustrating! However, we should be used to it
Totally frustrating! However, we should be used to it