0424372A2B450 wrote:
It just comes down to value. The Pirates could have signed Vogelsong for the same price but they feel Hutchison, Brault, Williams, Kingham are worth more. More bang for your buck. Teams pick and choose when they need to overpay for a player. The Pirates are an organization that was very happy with their 78 wins last year. This is evidenced by the fact that they haven't done a single thing to try to improve the team for 2017.
That last line that Dog wrote above is 100% spot on.
So much so that I bolded it so everyone sees it.
Well said, Dog.
I didn't write that. Don't do that.
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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rucker59@gmail.com
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
714C525F505A51735B4C5D5B5A3E0 wrote: Yeah, I remember that. The team stunk, the roster was full of pre-arb guys and they were trying to sell the town on that Walker/Alvarez/McCutchen/Tabata core. Since then MLB non-attendance revenue has grown substantially in proportion to attendance revenue, I don't think that comment is still relevant.
At the beginning of the 2015 season Neal, on the radio responding to criticism about payroll relative to KC said "we'll spend like KC when our fans support the team like KC".
The problem for Neal is that is was BS: the previous several years the Pirates had drawn something like 1M more fans.
Or, if you're correct, what revenue stream would KC have that Pittsburgh does not have?
Neal fabricating stuff, people finding whatever possible to justify the Pirates payroll....
The bottomline is the words of the FO have proven to be hollow and here we are, once again with a potentially very good team and we need just one more legitimate pitcher and we're reduced to justifying a weaker team because of cost benefit analysis. That has no place on this team at this time.
All I care about is whether the Pirates are serious about trying to win another 5 games. I don't care if it takes $8M more to do so.
At the beginning of the 2015 season Neal, on the radio responding to criticism about payroll relative to KC said "we'll spend like KC when our fans support the team like KC".
The problem for Neal is that is was BS: the previous several years the Pirates had drawn something like 1M more fans.
Or, if you're correct, what revenue stream would KC have that Pittsburgh does not have?
Neal fabricating stuff, people finding whatever possible to justify the Pirates payroll....
The bottomline is the words of the FO have proven to be hollow and here we are, once again with a potentially very good team and we need just one more legitimate pitcher and we're reduced to justifying a weaker team because of cost benefit analysis. That has no place on this team at this time.
All I care about is whether the Pirates are serious about trying to win another 5 games. I don't care if it takes $8M more to do so.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
0C3E32322614373E3336393E5F0 wrote: Payroll up, down, whatever. I don't care how much they spend frankly. It does not matter to me if they spent more or less in 2014 compared to 2015.
But go get a pitcher if you need one.
I agree with you. Unfotunatley there is a direct correlation between payroll and the Pirates acquiring that one extra piece.
But go get a pitcher if you need one.
I agree with you. Unfotunatley there is a direct correlation between payroll and the Pirates acquiring that one extra piece.
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DemDog
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
4565766B6A040 wrote:
It just comes down to value. The Pirates could have signed Vogelsong for the same price but they feel Hutchison, Brault, Williams, Kingham are worth more. More bang for your buck. Teams pick and choose when they need to overpay for a player. The Pirates are an organization that was very happy with their 78 wins last year. This is evidenced by the fact that they haven't done a single thing to try to improve the team for 2017.
That last line that Dog wrote above is 100% spot on.
So much so that I bolded it so everyone sees it.
Well said, Dog.
Aaron, you have added words to a post by Dogknot and given him credit for writing it. It is viewed by Dog and the Admins that you did this to bait and hassle Dog which is not in the spirit of how OBN works. So as of now you will lose your posting privelidges on OBN until Opening Day of the Regular Season At that time we will consider restoring your posting priveledges.
It just comes down to value. The Pirates could have signed Vogelsong for the same price but they feel Hutchison, Brault, Williams, Kingham are worth more. More bang for your buck. Teams pick and choose when they need to overpay for a player. The Pirates are an organization that was very happy with their 78 wins last year. This is evidenced by the fact that they haven't done a single thing to try to improve the team for 2017.
That last line that Dog wrote above is 100% spot on.
So much so that I bolded it so everyone sees it.
Well said, Dog.
Aaron, you have added words to a post by Dogknot and given him credit for writing it. It is viewed by Dog and the Admins that you did this to bait and hassle Dog which is not in the spirit of how OBN works. So as of now you will lose your posting privelidges on OBN until Opening Day of the Regular Season At that time we will consider restoring your posting priveledges.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
0538262B242E25072F38292F2E4A0 wrote: The premise of that post is that the risk of Hammel's contract being dead money in 2018 is not worth taking because of the that group of cost controlled pitchers.
It seems to me, the perfect time to take on an extra contract is exactly when you have otherwise good cost control.
It seems to me, the perfect time to take on an extra contract is exactly when you have otherwise good cost control.
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
437E606D62686341697E6F69680C0 wrote: The worst that could happen is that Hammel pitches himself out of the rotation and the Pirates have to ship out prospects to dump the salary. I know the answer to that is, don't dump salary. But the answer to that is, don't put yourself in a position where you need to dump salary.
Do you believe that payroll at 108m would equal a need to dump salary? If so, what payroll would you believe is a zero margin for the org, all else equal?
Or asked another way, how much margin do they NEED?
Do you believe that payroll at 108m would equal a need to dump salary? If so, what payroll would you believe is a zero margin for the org, all else equal?
Or asked another way, how much margin do they NEED?
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
717870616F150 wrote: The worst that could happen is that Hammel pitches himself out of the rotation and the Pirates have to ship out prospects to dump the salary. I know the answer to that is, don't dump salary. But the answer to that is, don't put yourself in a position where you need to dump salary.
Do you believe that payroll at 108m would equal a need to dump salary? If so, what payroll would you believe is a zero margin for the org, all else equal?
Or asked another way, how much margin do they NEED?
That's just it. 2 years at 16M in today's baseball climate is chump change.
Do you believe that payroll at 108m would equal a need to dump salary? If so, what payroll would you believe is a zero margin for the org, all else equal?
Or asked another way, how much margin do they NEED?
That's just it. 2 years at 16M in today's baseball climate is chump change.
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
51504B5A4C0C0B3F0 wrote: The worst that could happen is that Hammel pitches himself out of the rotation and the Pirates have to ship out prospects to dump the salary. I know the answer to that is, don't dump salary. But the answer to that is, don't put yourself in a position where you need to dump salary.
Do you believe that payroll at 108m would equal a need to dump salary? If so, what payroll would you believe is a zero margin for the org, all else equal?
Or asked another way, how much margin do they NEED?
That's just it. 2 years at 16M in today's baseball climate is chump change.
From what I've read, there are concerns about his arm health or I'm guessing it would have been more
Be that as it may. What is the salary cap where we would NEED to dump.
Do you believe that payroll at 108m would equal a need to dump salary? If so, what payroll would you believe is a zero margin for the org, all else equal?
Or asked another way, how much margin do they NEED?
That's just it. 2 years at 16M in today's baseball climate is chump change.
From what I've read, there are concerns about his arm health or I'm guessing it would have been more
Be that as it may. What is the salary cap where we would NEED to dump.
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Bobster21
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
6B626A7B750F0 wrote: The worst that could happen is that Hammel pitches himself out of the rotation and the Pirates have to ship out prospects to dump the salary. I know the answer to that is, don't dump salary. But the answer to that is, don't put yourself in a position where you need to dump salary.
Do you believe that payroll at 108m would equal a need to dump salary? If so, what payroll would you believe is a zero margin for the org, all else equal?
Or asked another way, how much margin do they NEED?
That's just it. 2 years at 16M in today's baseball climate is chump change.
From what I've read, there are concerns about his arm health or I'm guessing it would have been more
Be that as it may. What is the salary cap where we would NEED to dump.
Last year's opening day payroll was just under 86 million and they gave away prospects to shed all of Liriano's remaining salary. So I guess they're already at the level where they consider dumping necessary.
Do you believe that payroll at 108m would equal a need to dump salary? If so, what payroll would you believe is a zero margin for the org, all else equal?
Or asked another way, how much margin do they NEED?
That's just it. 2 years at 16M in today's baseball climate is chump change.
From what I've read, there are concerns about his arm health or I'm guessing it would have been more
Be that as it may. What is the salary cap where we would NEED to dump.
Last year's opening day payroll was just under 86 million and they gave away prospects to shed all of Liriano's remaining salary. So I guess they're already at the level where they consider dumping necessary.
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OrlandoMerced
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
Payroll constraint isn't the only constraint that a ML team has to manage. I agree that $8M is chump change for a major league player. The Pirates have had a close look at Hammel the last few years, and the Cubs knew him even better and decided he wasn't worth keeping for 12M, and the Cubs have depth issues with the rotation. So it's not that the Pirates aren't willing to pay that money for a back end starter, they aren't willing to pay that specific guy that money.