183538292E3F28686B5A0 wrote: Payroll up, down, whatever. I don't care how much they spend frankly. It does not matter to me if they spent more or less in 2014 compared to 2015.
But go get a pitcher if you need one.
I think most would agree with that. It's not as if there is a magic number we expect them to hit in payroll. But when the team struggles because they don't fill a key need despite their revenue and an annually low payroll that could absorb a higher salaried key addition, it becomes frustrating to fans.
IMHO, the FO is doing everything it can to be as competitive as possible within the confines of maintaining one of MLB's lowest payrolls annually. They would love to win a championship but not at the price of adding a key player that would take them out of their comfort zone of the 24th or 25th lowest payroll. If Bell and Kang come thru, their lineup should be very competitive (and every team has question marks). But they appear to be going with a suspect starting rotation that will cost less than 15 million total and that's if Hutchison ($2,300,000) makes it. Otherwise it could be about 13 million for 5 starters. Cole and Nova got what they could. Taillon and the other in-house candidates all figure to be minimum salaried. It sure seems like they could afford something like KC gave Jason Hammel in order to add one more legit starter.
Not even as much this offseason as last year. You could make an argument (I'm not) that the pickings this year were slim. But if I recall last years' FA class was pretty nice, certainly better than Ryan Vogelsong and a reliever-turned-starter experiment (which are fine fallback plans but not something we should ever want to go into the season with).
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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OrlandoMerced
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
I don't disagree with the notion that the Pirates have a vacancy in the starting rotation that should be filled. I do disagree with the notion that this Hammel signing is indicative of anything. So if we take it for granted that Cole, Nova and Taillon are the top three. Then at this moment, they have Kuhl, Glasnow, Brault, Kingham and Williams for the bottom two spots. For 2017, would one really want to make the argument that Hammel should be getting starts over Kuhl and Glasnow? And then in 2018? What do you do with him, you're paying him $8M and you might not want him anywhere near the mound.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
Their evaluations last year were wrong. They thought Niese would be better, he wasn't. They thought Vogelsong would be just as good as Morton and Nicasio would be better than Locke. You could argue they got the same production as Morton (still not sure why it took so long with the Nicasio experiment). Cole and Liriano were bad. Especially, Liriano. Taillon would be called up to replace the worst starter.
I am sure money and value came into play, but on paper they should have had the same production as 2015. Cole and Liriano were the biggest issues. Niese wasn't like Burnett at all. Taillon wasn't going to replace Liriano.
This year, they would rather go with Hutchison or Brault for $6 million - $7.5 million less than someone than Hammels. I think the can afford Hammels, but is he worth the extra money compared to their value they already have? They are probably thinking "No".
We also can't complain about all the team friendly contracts. The Pirates best pitcher makes less than $4 million a year. That is based on his age and tenure than his ability. Do you want the Pirates to pay Cole $10 million so the payroll will be higher? Or give Marte or Polanco more money just for the sake of raising payroll? The worst contract on the team is Harrison's in my opinion. But some would think that is fair market for a new starting second baseman.
They can always add payroll and players at the deadline like they have done so many times. Hopefully, the Pirates get to that point and can outbid others or take other higher player salaries than some other teams in the same race.
I am sure money and value came into play, but on paper they should have had the same production as 2015. Cole and Liriano were the biggest issues. Niese wasn't like Burnett at all. Taillon wasn't going to replace Liriano.
This year, they would rather go with Hutchison or Brault for $6 million - $7.5 million less than someone than Hammels. I think the can afford Hammels, but is he worth the extra money compared to their value they already have? They are probably thinking "No".
We also can't complain about all the team friendly contracts. The Pirates best pitcher makes less than $4 million a year. That is based on his age and tenure than his ability. Do you want the Pirates to pay Cole $10 million so the payroll will be higher? Or give Marte or Polanco more money just for the sake of raising payroll? The worst contract on the team is Harrison's in my opinion. But some would think that is fair market for a new starting second baseman.
They can always add payroll and players at the deadline like they have done so many times. Hopefully, the Pirates get to that point and can outbid others or take other higher player salaries than some other teams in the same race.
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
4F726C616E646F4D6572636564000 wrote: I don't disagree with the notion that the Pirates have a vacancy in the starting rotation that should be filled. I do disagree with the notion that this Hammel signing is indicative of anything. So if we take it for granted that Cole, Nova and Taillon are the top three. Then at this moment, they have Kuhl, Glasnow, Brault, Kingham and Williams for the bottom two spots. For 2017, would one really want to make the argument that Hammel should be getting starts over Kuhl and Glasnow? And then in 2018? What do you do with him, you're paying him $8M and you might not want him anywhere near the mound.
the premise of this post is what to do if you have too much pitching.
Isn't the answer simple? Make a deal from strength to fill an area of weakness.
the premise of this post is what to do if you have too much pitching.
Isn't the answer simple? Make a deal from strength to fill an area of weakness.
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OrlandoMerced
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
The premise of that post is that the risk of Hammel's contract being dead money in 2018 is not worth taking because of the that group of cost controlled pitchers.
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
0439272A252F24062E39282E2F4B0 wrote: The premise of that post is that the risk of Hammel's contract being dead money in 2018 is not worth taking because of the that group of cost controlled pitchers.
you think starting pitching is fine for 2017 and 2018? Would certainly help team if that is the case.
I still think dealing from strength is not a bad idea. Look at ChiSox and what they are able to ask for Quintana because he is good and cost controlled. None of these guys may get to that value but they could be pretty valuable if the Bucs have needs elsewhere.
you think starting pitching is fine for 2017 and 2018? Would certainly help team if that is the case.
I still think dealing from strength is not a bad idea. Look at ChiSox and what they are able to ask for Quintana because he is good and cost controlled. None of these guys may get to that value but they could be pretty valuable if the Bucs have needs elsewhere.
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SammyKhalifa
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- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
2C110F020D070C2E0611000607630 wrote: The premise of that post is that the risk of Hammel's contract being dead money in 2018 is not worth taking because of the that group of cost controlled pitchers.
What's the worst that would happen, that we have too many pitchers? When has that ever happened in the history of baseball?
What's the worst that would happen, that we have too many pitchers? When has that ever happened in the history of baseball?
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
0E28293E28384B0 wrote: The premise of that post is that the risk of Hammel's contract being dead money in 2018 is not worth taking because of the that group of cost controlled pitchers.
you think starting pitching is fine for 2017 and 2018? Would certainly help team if that is the case.
I still think dealing from strength is not a bad idea. Look at ChiSox and what they are able to ask for Quintana because he is good and cost controlled. None of these guys may get to that value but they could be pretty valuable if the Bucs have needs elsewhere.
Quintana is still with the White Sox. They aren't getting what they are asking for right now.
If the guys stink, then you have a stinky player you have to pay.
It just comes down to value. The Pirates could have signed Vogelsong for the same price but they feel Hutchison, Brault, Williams, Kingham are worth more. More bang for your buck. Teams pick and choose when they need to overpay for a player. The Pirates are a little more choosey.
you think starting pitching is fine for 2017 and 2018? Would certainly help team if that is the case.
I still think dealing from strength is not a bad idea. Look at ChiSox and what they are able to ask for Quintana because he is good and cost controlled. None of these guys may get to that value but they could be pretty valuable if the Bucs have needs elsewhere.
Quintana is still with the White Sox. They aren't getting what they are asking for right now.
If the guys stink, then you have a stinky player you have to pay.
It just comes down to value. The Pirates could have signed Vogelsong for the same price but they feel Hutchison, Brault, Williams, Kingham are worth more. More bang for your buck. Teams pick and choose when they need to overpay for a player. The Pirates are a little more choosey.
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OrlandoMerced
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
The worst that could happen is that Hammel pitches himself out of the rotation and the Pirates have to ship out prospects to dump the salary. I know the answer to that is, don't dump salary. But the answer to that is, don't put yourself in a position where you need to dump salary.
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
2B20282421203B7E780F362E272020612C204F0 wrote:
It just comes down to value. The Pirates could have signed Vogelsong for the same price but they feel Hutchison, Brault, Williams, Kingham are worth more. More bang for your buck. Teams pick and choose when they need to overpay for a player. The Pirates are an organization that was very happy with their 78 wins last year. This is evidenced by the fact that they haven't done a single thing to try to improve the team for 2017.
That last line that Dog wrote above is 100% spot on.
So much so that I bolded it so everyone sees it.
Well said, Dog.
It just comes down to value. The Pirates could have signed Vogelsong for the same price but they feel Hutchison, Brault, Williams, Kingham are worth more. More bang for your buck. Teams pick and choose when they need to overpay for a player. The Pirates are an organization that was very happy with their 78 wins last year. This is evidenced by the fact that they haven't done a single thing to try to improve the team for 2017.
That last line that Dog wrote above is 100% spot on.
So much so that I bolded it so everyone sees it.
Well said, Dog.