OnlyBucs

I'm surprised the Pirates offered him a 4-year extension following two mostly disappointing seasons. That's unusual in major league sports. (Then again, the Pirates are unusual).



I'm also surprised he seems enthusiastic about staying on board (in theory) for 4 more years, considering Pirates ownership seems more fiscally conservative (i.e., CHEAP) than ever. It's very difficult to say that the future looks bright.



I have always liked and supported Hurdle, but have finally starting to cool on him a bit this year. The constant emphasis on resting players has been frustrating. However, I'm not sure if that's a Hurdle thing or a larger franchise philosophy kind of thing, with the directive coming from upstairs.

I am disappointed.



I started to write a post last week that I subsequently destroyed because I was trying to offer my perspective on everything that I thought that the Pirates should do this off-season.



Number 1 on my list was to replace Hurdle. I wrote that I really don't know if Hurdle is a good manager or a bad manager, but from where I sit, he has done nothing to make the current situation any better. As such, I believe he should be replaced.



I also agree that 4 years is too long of an extension. My concern is if the team really goes south, that the owner will not be inclined to eat his salary (if warranted) and to move on.

775A57464150470704350 wrote: Is anyone truly surprised by this?
I'm not surprised. TBMTIB is not going to admit they have a mgr that needs to be replaced or that a problem with the team even exists. They'll say it was just one of those years with unexpected losses of Kang and Marte. Looking forward to another quiet off season. 




JMO, Hurdle is the least out our problems. We have two bigger issues - both ahead of him in the food chain. However, those two won't be going anywhere either as I suspect an extension happens with our GM.



We won't make a significant change in the offseason. Look at our offseason this year - Hudson and Gosselin. I expect similar to that, sadly.

Teams don't want scapegoat managers. Managers get fired all the time. Tracy and Russell were both fired under Huntington/Nutting.

5E4E4F786E6E620D0 wrote: Is anyone truly surprised by this?
I'm not surprised. TBMTIB is not going to admit they have a mgr that needs to be replaced or that a problem with the team even exists. They'll say it was just one of those years with unexpected losses of Kang and Marte. Looking forward to another quiet off season. 




JMO, Hurdle is the least out our problems.  We have two bigger issues - both ahead of him in the food chain.  However, those two won't be going anywhere either as I suspect an extension happens with our GM.



We won't make a significant change in the offseason.  Look at our offseason this year - Hudson and Gosselin.  I expect similar to that, sadly.
Hurdle is a problem but not the biggest one. That, of course, is Nutting. But Hurdle's bad managing makes a bad team even worse. IMHO, Hurdle's managing this season has been terrible. But as I've said in previous years, he's generally an average, run-of-the-year MLB mgr. With luck, he can improve and once again achieve mediocrity. But a financially challenged team that will never compete with other teams for talent needs a manager much better than average.

5B767B6A6D7C6B2B28190 wrote: Is anyone truly surprised by this?
I'm not surprised. TBMTIB is not going to admit they have a mgr that needs to be replaced or that a problem with the team even exists. They'll say it was just one of those years with unexpected losses of Kang and Marte. Looking forward to another quiet off season. 




JMO, Hurdle is the least out our problems.  We have two bigger issues - both ahead of him in the food chain.  However, those two won't be going anywhere either as I suspect an extension happens with our GM.



We won't make a significant change in the offseason.  Look at our offseason this year - Hudson and Gosselin.  I expect similar to that, sadly.
Hurdle is a problem but not the biggest one. That, of course, is Nutting. But Hurdle's bad managing makes a bad team even worse. IMHO, Hurdle's managing this season has been terrible. But as I've said in previous years, he's generally an average, run-of-the-year MLB mgr. With luck, he can improve and once again achieve mediocrity. But a financially challenged team that will never compete with other teams for talent needs a manager much better than average. 




I agree with this. Up until this year, I thought Hurdle did a very good job. As Bobster said though, this year, I've lost a lot of confidence in him. His constant resting of players (which, in principle, I have no real issue with, but I think he overdoes it), the way he handles the bullpen, playing Jaso and Cervelli/Stewart over Osuna and Diaz when it was clear the rooks were at least the equals, if not superior, to the vets, all of that...just seems to me he has cost the team some games this year.



That said, the real issue is Nutting. Until that changes, you can put any manager you want in there. You can put any GM you want in there. Won't matter a bit, because you can only make so much lemonade out of lemons. At times, Nutting won't even provide the lemons.



Then again, and this is getting off topic, I know, NH hasn't really done that well with what he HAS been given, either. He seems to have a propensity for mediocre guys who come cheap, relative to acquiring an All-Star at the same position. I wish he would commit to a youth movement, save the money they spend on mediocre vets, and go out and get one above average player.



E.G. no reason to get Rodriguez when you already have Moroff. I'd be willing to bet that Moroff could match, or even out produce Rodriguez over a full season. Same with Benoit and Hudson, when you already have guys like Santana and Neverauskas.

604D40515647501013220 wrote: Is anyone truly surprised by this?
I'm not surprised. TBMTIB is not going to admit they have a mgr that needs to be replaced or that a problem with the team even exists. They'll say it was just one of those years with unexpected losses of Kang and Marte. Looking forward to another quiet off season. 




JMO, Hurdle is the least out our problems.  We have two bigger issues - both ahead of him in the food chain.  However, those two won't be going anywhere either as I suspect an extension happens with our GM.



We won't make a significant change in the offseason.  Look at our offseason this year - Hudson and Gosselin.  I expect similar to that, sadly.
Hurdle is a problem but not the biggest one. That, of course, is Nutting. But Hurdle's bad managing makes a bad team even worse. IMHO, Hurdle's managing this season has been terrible. But as I've said in previous years, he's generally an average, run-of-the-year MLB mgr. With luck, he can improve and once again achieve mediocrity. But a financially challenged team that will never compete with other teams for talent needs a manager much better than average. 






I don't think Hurdle is biggest problem either. Actually staying the course charted by management with Nutting in charge is biggest problem.



If you don't have money resources of other teams you have to do something to give your team a chance. For the Bucs that means best GM possible and best manager.



The GM position is the position the team should be willing to overpay for.

The resting of players seems like a team philosophy thing. Was it done more this year or was it just noticed more since the team didn't win?



I have come to the conclusion that managers are pretty much the same game in and game out. They use the same strategies as everyone else. There are only a few that think outside the box.



Hurdle does bring that respect and leadership to the team. That was something I noticed that changed after watching Lamont, McClendon, Tracy, and Russell.



I want some of the strategies and philosophies to be changed. Hurdle is a good man to get messages across to the players.

The Dodgers have been "resting" players using the new DL rules all season and nobody seems to be complaining.

61535F5F4B795A535E5B5453320 wrote: The Dodgers have been "resting" players using the new DL rules all season and nobody seems to be complaining. 
yep, and that rule was tailor made for the Pirates but they continued to play with a man short rather than using it. Don't really understand why.