48687B6667090 wrote: The issue with Polanco has less to do with his skills/production and a lot more to do with how the organization continues to promote/use him as something that he isn't. Which, quite frankly, is a major problem with how this organization operates:
It's pretty clear that despite Polanco's potential, he's not currently (and very likely will never become) a consistent, middle of the order run producer. Yet, the organization will continue to pretend that he is, and bat him 4th or 5th. It's only going to get uglier when McCutchen is gone and they plug him into the three hole in the lineup, whether or not he ever produces like a #3 hitter should.
No different than what they're currently doing with other players:
Gerrit Cole, while a very good starting pitcher, he hasn't been your prototypical, "ace." But the Pirates drafted him to be an ace, so he's gonna be their ace, even if he isn't one.
Tony Watson, was in line to be the next closer, after Melancon was no longer with the team. So, even if his results haven't been good since becoming the closer last year, he's the closer regardless.
Cutch was once an MVP and an incredible #3 hitter. The organization recognized that he isn't that anymore so they tried to dump his salary. When they failed to do that, they just said, "Oh, well although we know he isn't what he used to be, we're gonna plug him in that three hole and just say he's still an MVP!"
These are the reasons why this organization is going nowhere. They continue to place unrealistic expectations on players and put them in spots where they're likely not going to get the production needed to fill those roles adequately.
So, getting back to Polanco, he wouldn't be so much of an issue if the organization saw him as more of a complimentary player. A guy that bats 6th or 7th and makes contributions but isn't a star.
But they'll continue to pretend he's a star, trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and continue to have below .500 seasons.
The organization is ultimately satisfied with whatever happens on the field. "These are our players and these are the guys that are going to play for us, in the positions we imagined for them, results be damned."
Square pegs in round holes - yep. That's exactly the way I've been describing this team. If Kang were here I think the infield could be decent. But the outfield is a mess, even when Marte was here.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Overshadowed by everything else
547870777C5B6C7A6A190 wrote:
Polanco is a major disappointment.
......
At present, there is no part of Polanco's game that is an asset to the Pirates. He is not a great threat on the bases, he is a horrible defender, and he offers little on offense. What a disappointment. I also harken back to folks who asked for NH's head because he didn't bring up Polanco earlier.
I'm not convinced he can't be a very big bat, but he's certainly headed the wrong way with his total game.
I remember the talk about trading Polanco. I favored trading Marte, but whoever there is reason to question whether the organization over values its prospects. They're clearly afraid to move prospects.
For the first few years of Neil's tenure they were stockpiling pitchers with practically every pick. Then outfielders. There was talk about trading from strength (pitching and outfield) to acquire the remaining pieces the team would need to fill any holes.
I can't remember any trades where the Pirates traded from strength to build upon needs. Internal prospects and reclaimation projects have been it with a few exceptions (Martin, Cervelli, AJ).
What Neil does with this team is going to set the course for the next 5-6 years. Polanco, Marte, just about anyone needs to be accurately ecaluated internally.
Polanco is a major disappointment.
......
At present, there is no part of Polanco's game that is an asset to the Pirates. He is not a great threat on the bases, he is a horrible defender, and he offers little on offense. What a disappointment. I also harken back to folks who asked for NH's head because he didn't bring up Polanco earlier.
I'm not convinced he can't be a very big bat, but he's certainly headed the wrong way with his total game.
I remember the talk about trading Polanco. I favored trading Marte, but whoever there is reason to question whether the organization over values its prospects. They're clearly afraid to move prospects.
For the first few years of Neil's tenure they were stockpiling pitchers with practically every pick. Then outfielders. There was talk about trading from strength (pitching and outfield) to acquire the remaining pieces the team would need to fill any holes.
I can't remember any trades where the Pirates traded from strength to build upon needs. Internal prospects and reclaimation projects have been it with a few exceptions (Martin, Cervelli, AJ).
What Neil does with this team is going to set the course for the next 5-6 years. Polanco, Marte, just about anyone needs to be accurately ecaluated internally.
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steve49
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I'm surprised he's done as well as he has with his "way too long" swing.
So I guess what you have is a low average guy , who just now is trying to fix the above (no more wore besides), that is a butcher in LF.
Is what it is.....
So I guess what you have is a low average guy , who just now is trying to fix the above (no more wore besides), that is a butcher in LF.
Is what it is.....
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3E39283B2879744D0 wrote:
Is what it is.....
Precisely.
And if the organization cared as much as we do, they'd do something about it.
Instead, rather that realizing that Polanco, "is what he is," and make some changes/adjustments in how they view their roster and what personnel moves they may need to make they just say:
"Although he isn't what we hoped for, we're gonna keep putting him in that position. If he doesn't live up to the expectations, oh well! He's our guy, we gave him a fat, undeserved extension, and he's our cleanup guy for the next number of years!!"
Is what it is.....
Precisely.
And if the organization cared as much as we do, they'd do something about it.
Instead, rather that realizing that Polanco, "is what he is," and make some changes/adjustments in how they view their roster and what personnel moves they may need to make they just say:
"Although he isn't what we hoped for, we're gonna keep putting him in that position. If he doesn't live up to the expectations, oh well! He's our guy, we gave him a fat, undeserved extension, and he's our cleanup guy for the next number of years!!"
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
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If you move Polanco out of the middle of the line up, who bats their instead?
He is batting there based on last year, not the first month of the season. I still think he is better and will be better than any of his replacements at this point. He has to turn it around as he can't get much worse. I am so in favor of putting him back in RF.
He is batting there based on last year, not the first month of the season. I still think he is better and will be better than any of his replacements at this point. He has to turn it around as he can't get much worse. I am so in favor of putting him back in RF.
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ChitownBucco
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- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:10 pm
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5777647978160 wrote:
Is what it is.....
Precisely.
And if the organization cared as much as we do, they'd do something about it.
Instead, rather that realizing that Polanco, "is what he is," and make some changes/adjustments in how they view their roster and what personnel moves they may need to make they just say:
"Although he isn't what we hoped for, we're gonna keep putting him in that position. If he doesn't live up to the expectations, oh well! He's our guy, we gave him a fat, undeserved extension, and he's our cleanup guy for the next number of years!!"
a) its a bit early to be over-reacting this much.
b) what personnel moves are we talking? Bucs are struggling to find warm bodies to play the OF as it is, without taking Polanco out of the equation. any suggestions?
Is what it is.....
Precisely.
And if the organization cared as much as we do, they'd do something about it.
Instead, rather that realizing that Polanco, "is what he is," and make some changes/adjustments in how they view their roster and what personnel moves they may need to make they just say:
"Although he isn't what we hoped for, we're gonna keep putting him in that position. If he doesn't live up to the expectations, oh well! He's our guy, we gave him a fat, undeserved extension, and he's our cleanup guy for the next number of years!!"
a) its a bit early to be over-reacting this much.
b) what personnel moves are we talking? Bucs are struggling to find warm bodies to play the OF as it is, without taking Polanco out of the equation. any suggestions?
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johnfluharty
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6368606C6968733630477E666F6868296468070 wrote: If you move Polanco out of the middle of the line up, who bats their instead?
He is batting there based on last year, not the first month of the season. I still think he is better and will be better than any of his replacements at this point. He has to turn it around as he can't get much worse. I am so in favor of putting him back in RF.
And here is the crux of the problem. Bell could be our #4 at some point, but right now he is not ready for that role either.
He is batting there based on last year, not the first month of the season. I still think he is better and will be better than any of his replacements at this point. He has to turn it around as he can't get much worse. I am so in favor of putting him back in RF.
And here is the crux of the problem. Bell could be our #4 at some point, but right now he is not ready for that role either.
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Our cleanup hitter is in Korea. Who should be our #3 hitter is suspended.
I'm not even going to complain about the lineup configuration because not having marte and Kang screws up everybody.
It's extremely troubling to me that all of these prospects come up through the system pegged as plus defensive outfielders and only Marte is good.
I don't understand how we can't identify defensive ability properly in the minor leagues, especially OFers. Hitting is understandable. It's different in the big. A lot of unknowns. Tracking flyballs and taking decent routes is not something that players have in the minors and then forget.
Meadows is the next up OF prospect pegged as a very good fielder. Can that be trusted? Is he another guy who is all hat and no cattle defensively?
At least Gift Ngope appears to actually be as advertised defensively. Diaz seems to be as advertised as well. But so many misses ...
I'm not even going to complain about the lineup configuration because not having marte and Kang screws up everybody.
It's extremely troubling to me that all of these prospects come up through the system pegged as plus defensive outfielders and only Marte is good.
I don't understand how we can't identify defensive ability properly in the minor leagues, especially OFers. Hitting is understandable. It's different in the big. A lot of unknowns. Tracking flyballs and taking decent routes is not something that players have in the minors and then forget.
Meadows is the next up OF prospect pegged as a very good fielder. Can that be trusted? Is he another guy who is all hat and no cattle defensively?
At least Gift Ngope appears to actually be as advertised defensively. Diaz seems to be as advertised as well. But so many misses ...
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5453425142131E270 wrote: I'm surprised he's done as well as he has with his "way too long" swing.
So I guess what you have is a low average guy , who just now is trying to fix the above (no more wore besides), that is a butcher in LF.
Is what it is.....
This!!! His swing is way to long to be consistent. When everything is just right he is decent, maybe even good, but if there is one little thing out of whack he isn't going to hit.
So I guess what you have is a low average guy , who just now is trying to fix the above (no more wore besides), that is a butcher in LF.
Is what it is.....
This!!! His swing is way to long to be consistent. When everything is just right he is decent, maybe even good, but if there is one little thing out of whack he isn't going to hit.
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DemDog
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74756E7F69292E1A0 wrote: I'm surprised he's done as well as he has with his "way too long" swing.
So I guess what you have is a low average guy , who just now is trying to fix the above (no more wore besides), that is a butcher in LF.
Is what it is.....
This!!! His swing is way to long to be consistent. When everything is just right he is decent, maybe even good, but if there is one little thing out of whack he isn't going to hit.
I think you two guys have hit the nail on the head or should I say you have "barreled the ball" about Polanco's struggles. Seems that Steve Nesbitt of the PG agrees and discusses the long swing of Polanco. Good read. Polanco Still Hitting Clean Up
So I guess what you have is a low average guy , who just now is trying to fix the above (no more wore besides), that is a butcher in LF.
Is what it is.....
This!!! His swing is way to long to be consistent. When everything is just right he is decent, maybe even good, but if there is one little thing out of whack he isn't going to hit.
I think you two guys have hit the nail on the head or should I say you have "barreled the ball" about Polanco's struggles. Seems that Steve Nesbitt of the PG agrees and discusses the long swing of Polanco. Good read. Polanco Still Hitting Clean Up