Deal with Yanks getting close?

[rucker59@gmail.com]

6269616D6869723731467F676E6969286569060 wrote: I'll add - its pretty well documented on here that Neal has graded poorly on drafting.  I think the next biggest miss by Neal is the poor internal evaluation of their prospects.  If you're not drafting well, and you're not in the FA mkt, then the ability to move the right pieces FOR the right pieces is critical. Neal has refused to move anyone that he evaluates highly.  Too many of those prospects have not lived up to their expectations - they could have had substantially more value in a trade than they have on the team.



Neal sits on his hands while Ozuna could have been acquired. freeing up Marte.  Watching the Cardinals work the winter (as an example) highlights just how unlikely the Pirates are to ever build a championship team.  (and if the Cardinals get Donaldson....).


Why would he feel he needs to move them if they are highly evaluated?  I don't blame him for not moving them, I blame his evaluation as a whole. 



He has done this with new players too, not just his drafted prospects or international signings.  Niese and Jaso come to mind.  They weren't close as good compared to the players they replaced.  Harrison over Walker too. 



I do agree with you in not seeing that certain guys might not pan out, but how do you expect a return for those guys.  Guys like Tony Sanchez, Alen Hanson, and Brad Lincoln come to mind.  He probably held onto them too long.  But what could he have really got for them too? 



Tyler Glasnow might be that next guy.  Do you trade him now or hope he is a fixture for the Pirates?  That is always a tough call.  I am also watching all the middle infielders the Pirates have who should be coming up.  I feel sometimes too many is a bad thing too.  He should pick between Kevin Newman, Cole Tucker, and Kevin Kramer and maybe deal one of those guys. 



I don't know why Huntington has never traded a top guy.  He has made some really good deadline deals, but didn't have to give up anyone of significance in return.  I don't know why he has never made an off season trade involving prospects.  I feel he has had plenty of opportunity the past six years or so.




We're saying the same thing I think .



It's not that he should trade his best players, its that he has not evaluated talent well enough to know who is going to live up to potential. I would think internal valuations should be much better than another team's scouting. Polanco and Pedro could have been traded for a king's ransom early in their careers. Was there really nothing for the Pirates to "see" on those guys? Polanco's big swing and shaky defense - nobody ever said "hey, he has some holes that makes him riskier than the book says. See what you can get for them".

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

717660686671363A43646E626A6F2D606C6E030 wrote: I'll add - its pretty well documented on here that Neal has graded poorly on drafting.  I think the next biggest miss by Neal is the poor internal evaluation of their prospects.  If you're not drafting well, and you're not in the FA mkt, then the ability to move the right pieces FOR the right pieces is critical. Neal has refused to move anyone that he evaluates highly.  Too many of those prospects have not lived up to their expectations - they could have had substantially more value in a trade than they have on the team.



Neal sits on his hands while Ozuna could have been acquired. freeing up Marte.  Watching the Cardinals work the winter (as an example) highlights just how unlikely the Pirates are to ever build a championship team.  (and if the Cardinals get Donaldson....).


Why would he feel he needs to move them if they are highly evaluated?  I don't blame him for not moving them, I blame his evaluation as a whole. 



He has done this with new players too, not just his drafted prospects or international signings.  Niese and Jaso come to mind.  They weren't close as good compared to the players they replaced.  Harrison over Walker too. 



I do agree with you in not seeing that certain guys might not pan out, but how do you expect a return for those guys.  Guys like Tony Sanchez, Alen Hanson, and Brad Lincoln come to mind.  He probably held onto them too long.  But what could he have really got for them too? 



Tyler Glasnow might be that next guy.  Do you trade him now or hope he is a fixture for the Pirates?  That is always a tough call.  I am also watching all the middle infielders the Pirates have who should be coming up.  I feel sometimes too many is a bad thing too.  He should pick between Kevin Newman, Cole Tucker, and Kevin Kramer and maybe deal one of those guys. 



I don't know why Huntington has never traded a top guy.  He has made some really good deadline deals, but didn't have to give up anyone of significance in return.  I don't know why he has never made an off season trade involving prospects.  I feel he has had plenty of opportunity the past six years or so.




We're saying the same thing I think  .



It's not that he should trade his best players, its that he has not evaluated talent well enough to know who is going to live up to potential.  I would think internal valuations should be much  better than another team's scouting.  Polanco and Pedro could have been traded for a king's ransom early in their careers.  Was there really nothing for the Pirates to "see" on those guys?  Polanco's big swing and shaky defense - nobody ever said "hey, he has some holes that makes him riskier than the book says.  See what you can get for them".




Yeah, but who knows if they would have won in 2013 without Alvarez or without both he and Polanco in 2014 and 2015? You have to play the guys to win instead of always trying to flip them for the better.



It's easier said after the fact since they didn't win it all. Could you imagine if they traded Alvarez in 2012 or after the 2013 season? Finally develop a big time power bat, then trade him away because in the fan's eyes "he got too expensive".

[Aaron]

373C34383D3C276264132A323B3C3C7D303C530 wrote:  



It's easier said after the fact since they didn't win it all.  Could you imagine if they traded Alvarez in 2012 or after the 2013 season?  Finally develop a big time power bat, then trade him away because in the fan's eyes "he got too expensive". 




You might want to start paying attention.



Not only did they get rid of him when they deemed, "he got too expensive," they got absolutely nothing in return.



He was non-tendered because they didn't want to pay him. He was, for all intents and purposes, released.



I'm sure you have an answer how that's different, just like having no direction and no plan are two different things, right?

[notes34]

5171627F7E100 wrote:  



It's easier said after the fact since they didn't win it all.  Could you imagine if they traded Alvarez in 2012 or after the 2013 season?  Finally develop a big time power bat, then trade him away because in the fan's eyes "he got too expensive". 




You might want to start paying attention.



Not only did they get rid of him when they deemed, "he got too expensive," they got absolutely nothing in return.



He was non-tendered because they didn't want to pay him. He was, for all intents and purposes, released.



I'm sure you have an answer how that's different, just like having no direction and no plan are two different things, right?
There was also the fact he kinda sucked at catching the ball!

[Aaron]

69687362743433070 wrote:  



It's easier said after the fact since they didn't win it all.  Could you imagine if they traded Alvarez in 2012 or after the 2013 season?  Finally develop a big time power bat, then trade him away because in the fan's eyes "he got too expensive". 




You might want to start paying attention.



Not only did they get rid of him when they deemed, "he got too expensive," they got absolutely nothing in return.



He was non-tendered because they didn't want to pay him. He was, for all intents and purposes, released.



I'm sure you have an answer how that's different, just like having no direction and no plan are two different things, right?
There was also the fact he kinda sucked at catching the ball!


No doubt. His defense started out solid and seemingly fell apart over his career.



That doesn't change the point of my post in response to Dog.

[dmetz]

416766716777040 wrote: I'll add - its pretty well documented on here that Neal has graded poorly on drafting.  I think the next biggest miss by Neal is the poor internal evaluation of their prospects.  If you're not drafting well, and you're not in the FA mkt, then the ability to move the right pieces FOR the right pieces is critical. Neal has refused to move anyone that he evaluates highly.  Too many of those prospects have not lived up to their expectations - they could have had substantially more value in a trade than they have on the team.



Neal sits on his hands while Ozuna could have been acquired. freeing up Marte.  Watching the Cardinals work the winter (as an example) highlights just how unlikely the Pirates are to ever build a championship team.  (and if the Cardinals get Donaldson....).


Why would he feel he needs to move them if they are highly evaluated?  I don't blame him for not moving them, I blame his evaluation as a whole. 



He has done this with new players too, not just his drafted prospects or international signings.  Niese and Jaso come to mind.  They weren't close as good compared to the players they replaced.  Harrison over Walker too. 



I do agree with you in not seeing that certain guys might not pan out, but how do you expect a return for those guys.  Guys like Tony Sanchez, Alen Hanson, and Brad Lincoln come to mind.  He probably held onto them too long.  But what could he have really got for them too? 



Tyler Glasnow might be that next guy.  Do you trade him now or hope he is a fixture for the Pirates?  That is always a tough call.  I am also watching all the middle infielders the Pirates have who should be coming up.  I feel sometimes too many is a bad thing too.  He should pick between Kevin Newman, Cole Tucker, and Kevin Kramer and maybe deal one of those guys. 



I don't know why Huntington has never traded a top guy.  He has made some really good deadline deals, but didn't have to give up anyone of significance in return.  I don't know why he has never made an off season trade involving prospects.  I feel he has had plenty of opportunity the past six years or so.






The most logical answer is he sucks at being a g.m. 


Nah, that just cannot be it. (Until 24 hours after he's finally fired)

[SammyKhalifa]

With no sufficient bid emerging, the Orioles are now indicating that star third baseman Manny Machado “is staying put,” according to Bob Nightengale of USA Today (via Twitter). That could yet change if a big new offer comes in the door, but it seems that Baltimore will no longer actively shop the pending free agent.

[Bobster21]

6B5955554173505954515E59380 wrote: With no sufficient bid emerging, the Orioles are now indicating that star third baseman Manny Machado “is staying put,” according to Bob Nightengale of USA Today (via Twitter). That could yet change if a big new offer comes in the door, but it seems that Baltimore will no longer actively shop the pending free agent.
Yeah, but that actually means little. If a team makes a great offer for him in a week or 2, I doubt the Orioles will decline it because it was after their arbitrary deadline. Seems more like an effort to improve the offers they're getting. Lack of pitching will keep Orioles from competing in 2018 even with Machado and he's a free agent after 2018. So staying put really hurts the Orioles.

[mouse]

This doesn't seem to be too bad an offer --



https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/re ... li=BBnba9I

[SammyKhalifa]

7D505D4C4B5A4D0D0E3F0 wrote: With no sufficient bid emerging, the Orioles are now indicating that star third baseman Manny Machado “is staying put,” according to Bob Nightengale of USA Today (via Twitter). That could yet change if a big new offer comes in the door, but it seems that Baltimore will no longer actively shop the pending free agent.
Yeah, but that actually means little. If a team makes a great offer for him in a week or 2, I doubt the Orioles will decline it because it was after their arbitrary deadline. Seems more like an effort to improve the offers they're getting. Lack of pitching will keep Orioles from competing in 2018 even with Machado and he's a free agent after 2018. So staying put really hurts the Orioles.




OK, but what then of reaction to rumors that a Cole deal have "Cooled." Isn't it the same thing?