With Brownie today:
1) unfortunately I picked up the show a couple of minutes in, and just caught the tail end of a discussion about whether Neal will be active with trades or FAs. Maybe someone can share details.
2) he did make clear, however, that he really likes this team and believes they are capable of a deep run.
3) defended starting Jaso.
4) he evaded questions about payroll. Except for a little detour through recent history about the fans: Neal claimed we "have the smallest fan base in MLB". Immediately added a comment about "one of the smallest markets" and then made the following statement: he gave a back handed compliment to Pirate fans for our attendance "growing to almost average" in MLB before falling off the past two years. Greg tried to tie attendance and payroll together ("which comes first, attendance or payroll?") and Neal basically implied that the best we can apparently do is get close to average attendance THEREFORE we're basically stuck with what we've got. Greg never asked the obvious Q: "if attendance is middle of the league, will payroll also be middle of the league?" Greg basically offered up a platform for Neal to defend the FO by patronizing/blaming the fans.
This misdirect, mislead, shifting of responsibility REALLY ticks me off (as did Brownie's participation). Neal - if you're reading this by chance, this is the final nail in the coffin for me with respect to my season ticket package: I'll simply say I'm a long term ST owner, full season with a lot money going to the Pirates; I will be dropping to a 20 game plan with a much cheaper seat (I'll keep the 20 game plan to maintain my "seniority"). No words can describe how much I dislike these cheap shots to the fans. Shame on you, and you've chased off someone that I didn't think anyone could chase off: ME.
Neal's radio show
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
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Neal's radio show
I really am insensed that he makes an absolute lie stating that we have the smallest fanbase. He must be referring to geographic proximity to other fanbases. Even that assumption I would have to challenge. Shame on Brown for the cream puff interview.
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Bobster21
Neal's radio show
02272424311A272F2D3A480 wrote: I really am insensed that he makes an absolute lie stating that we have the smallest fanbase. He must be referring to geographic proximity to other fanbases. Even that assumption I would have to challenge. Shame on Brown for the cream puff interview.
Brown is paid to promote the Pirates. He's not going to ask tough questions and put NH on the spot.
Brown is paid to promote the Pirates. He's not going to ask tough questions and put NH on the spot.
Neal's radio show
I don't know what's worse, that NH says this kind of stuff on air, or that parts of our fanbase lap it up and actually believe it
It's not the fans fault. Whether they love NH or they hate him. Whether they defend and apologize for these guys or they dont. We are all in the same boat, and these jokers are stearing the ship into iceburgs and blaming the passengers.
It's not the fans fault. Whether they love NH or they hate him. Whether they defend and apologize for these guys or they dont. We are all in the same boat, and these jokers are stearing the ship into iceburgs and blaming the passengers.
Neal's radio show
7473656D6374333F46616B676F6A2865696B060 wrote: With Brownie today:
1) unfortunately I picked up the show a couple of minutes in, and just caught the tail end of a discussion about whether Neal will be active with trades or FAs. Maybe someone can share details.
2) he did make clear, however, that he really likes this team and believes they are capable of a deep run.
3) defended starting Jaso.
4) he evaded questions about payroll. Except for a little detour through recent history about the fans: Neal claimed we "have the smallest fan base in MLB". Immediately added a comment about "one of the smallest markets" and then made the following statement: he gave a back handed compliment to Pirate fans for our attendance "growing to almost average" in MLB before falling off the past two years. Greg tried to tie attendance and payroll together ("which comes first, attendance or payroll?") and Neal basically implied that the best we can apparently do is get close to average attendance THEREFORE we're basically stuck with what we've got. Greg never asked the obvious Q: "if attendance is middle of the league, will payroll also be middle of the league?" Greg basically offered up a platform for Neal to defend the FO by patronizing/blaming the fans.
This misdirect, mislead, shifting of responsibility REALLY ticks me off (as did Brownie's participation). Neal - if you're reading this by chance, this is the final nail in the coffin for me with respect to my season ticket package: I'll simply say I'm a long term ST owner, full season with a lot money going to the Pirates; I will be dropping to a 20 game plan with a much cheaper seat (I'll keep the 20 game plan to maintain my "seniority"). No words can describe how much I dislike these cheap shots to the fans. Shame on you, and you've chased off someone that I didn't think anyone could chase off: ME.
quick question to anyone:
Name the last Pirate team Neal didn't like.
1) unfortunately I picked up the show a couple of minutes in, and just caught the tail end of a discussion about whether Neal will be active with trades or FAs. Maybe someone can share details.
2) he did make clear, however, that he really likes this team and believes they are capable of a deep run.
3) defended starting Jaso.
4) he evaded questions about payroll. Except for a little detour through recent history about the fans: Neal claimed we "have the smallest fan base in MLB". Immediately added a comment about "one of the smallest markets" and then made the following statement: he gave a back handed compliment to Pirate fans for our attendance "growing to almost average" in MLB before falling off the past two years. Greg tried to tie attendance and payroll together ("which comes first, attendance or payroll?") and Neal basically implied that the best we can apparently do is get close to average attendance THEREFORE we're basically stuck with what we've got. Greg never asked the obvious Q: "if attendance is middle of the league, will payroll also be middle of the league?" Greg basically offered up a platform for Neal to defend the FO by patronizing/blaming the fans.
This misdirect, mislead, shifting of responsibility REALLY ticks me off (as did Brownie's participation). Neal - if you're reading this by chance, this is the final nail in the coffin for me with respect to my season ticket package: I'll simply say I'm a long term ST owner, full season with a lot money going to the Pirates; I will be dropping to a 20 game plan with a much cheaper seat (I'll keep the 20 game plan to maintain my "seniority"). No words can describe how much I dislike these cheap shots to the fans. Shame on you, and you've chased off someone that I didn't think anyone could chase off: ME.
quick question to anyone:
Name the last Pirate team Neal didn't like.
Neal's radio show
44616262775C61696B7C0E0 wrote: I really am insensed that he makes an absolute lie stating that we have the smallest fanbase. He must be referring to geographic proximity to other fanbases. Even that assumption I would have to challenge. Shame on Brown for the cream puff interview.
I didn't listen to the interview.
VA did NOT quote NH as saying we have the smallest. VA quoted him as saying we have "one of the smallest." That seems about right to me. Consider how many fans left during the 20 years of sucking. Consider how incredibly close we are to numerous other pro baseball teams. Consider how much more draw there has been over the last 20 years for the Pens and Steelers. Steelers fans do not equal Pirates fans. That statement is not surprising. If you'd like to disagree with it, show some numbers.
Secondly, I don't like the argument that simply because attendance is on par with team XYZ, payroll should be similar. The Pirates ticket prices are still insanely cheap compared to other teams in the league. You can sit in the first row behind the Pirates dugout for <$60. They are twice that at most other ballparks. And those prices have only jumped to that level in the last few years.
I didn't listen to the interview.
VA did NOT quote NH as saying we have the smallest. VA quoted him as saying we have "one of the smallest." That seems about right to me. Consider how many fans left during the 20 years of sucking. Consider how incredibly close we are to numerous other pro baseball teams. Consider how much more draw there has been over the last 20 years for the Pens and Steelers. Steelers fans do not equal Pirates fans. That statement is not surprising. If you'd like to disagree with it, show some numbers.
Secondly, I don't like the argument that simply because attendance is on par with team XYZ, payroll should be similar. The Pirates ticket prices are still insanely cheap compared to other teams in the league. You can sit in the first row behind the Pirates dugout for <$60. They are twice that at most other ballparks. And those prices have only jumped to that level in the last few years.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Neal's radio show
Anyone have a link to this interview?
I still don't get how attendance is tied into winning. They played a game in front of four thousand fans this year in Williamsport.
I still don't get how attendance is tied into winning. They played a game in front of four thousand fans this year in Williamsport.
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Bobster21
Neal's radio show
44597D7F71140 wrote: I really am insensed that he makes an absolute lie stating that we have the smallest fanbase. He must be referring to geographic proximity to other fanbases. Even that assumption I would have to challenge. Shame on Brown for the cream puff interview.
I didn't listen to the interview.
VA did NOT quote NH as saying we have the smallest. VA quoted him as saying we have "one of the smallest." That seems about right to me. Consider how many fans left during the 20 years of sucking. Consider how incredibly close we are to numerous other pro baseball teams. Consider how much more draw there has been over the last 20 years for the Pens and Steelers. Steelers fans do not equal Pirates fans. That statement is not surprising. If you'd like to disagree with it, show some numbers.
Secondly, I don't like the argument that simply because attendance is on par with team XYZ, payroll should be similar. The Pirates ticket prices are still insanely cheap compared to other teams in the league. You can sit in the first row behind the Pirates dugout for <$60. They are twice that at most other ballparks. And those prices have only jumped to that level in the last few years.
Not so sure about that. Depending on the source, their tickets prices are either middle of the pack:
https://www.vividseats.com/blog/mlb-ticket-prices
or among the highest:
http://time.com/money/4713938/heres-how ... s-in-2017/
I didn't listen to the interview.
VA did NOT quote NH as saying we have the smallest. VA quoted him as saying we have "one of the smallest." That seems about right to me. Consider how many fans left during the 20 years of sucking. Consider how incredibly close we are to numerous other pro baseball teams. Consider how much more draw there has been over the last 20 years for the Pens and Steelers. Steelers fans do not equal Pirates fans. That statement is not surprising. If you'd like to disagree with it, show some numbers.
Secondly, I don't like the argument that simply because attendance is on par with team XYZ, payroll should be similar. The Pirates ticket prices are still insanely cheap compared to other teams in the league. You can sit in the first row behind the Pirates dugout for <$60. They are twice that at most other ballparks. And those prices have only jumped to that level in the last few years.
Not so sure about that. Depending on the source, their tickets prices are either middle of the pack:
https://www.vividseats.com/blog/mlb-ticket-prices
or among the highest:
http://time.com/money/4713938/heres-how ... s-in-2017/
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Neal's radio show
Not an excuse, but it doesn't help the Pirates that the Penguins and Steelers are playoff teams and have high ticket prices (to me at least, not sure of the league averages). They share the same entertainment dollar in a less populated city. Pitt football gets hit hard due to this too. Pitt football also has a bad product.
If it came down to it, are you going to spend $100 at a Pirates game or $150 at the Steelers game? I would assume most would pick the Steelers.
Again, not an excuse. Huntington shouldn't mention the fans. the fans proved to show up when the team was good. They had five years in a row with over 2 million fans. They might get close this year too. Attendance usually reflects the season before with a few exceptions. 2013 should be an indicator on how the fans showed up for a winner.
If it came down to it, are you going to spend $100 at a Pirates game or $150 at the Steelers game? I would assume most would pick the Steelers.
Again, not an excuse. Huntington shouldn't mention the fans. the fans proved to show up when the team was good. They had five years in a row with over 2 million fans. They might get close this year too. Attendance usually reflects the season before with a few exceptions. 2013 should be an indicator on how the fans showed up for a winner.
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Bobster21
Neal's radio show
060D05090C0D165355221B030A0D0D4C010D620 wrote: Not an excuse, but it doesn't help the Pirates that the Penguins and Steelers are playoff teams and have high ticket prices (to me at least, not sure of the league averages). They share the same entertainment dollar in a less populated city. Pitt football gets hit hard due to this too. Pitt football also has a bad product.
If it came down to it, are you going to spend $100 at a Pirates game or $150 at the Steelers game? I would assume most would pick the Steelers.
Again, not an excuse. Huntington shouldn't mention the fans. the fans proved to show up when the team was good. They had five years in a row with over 2 million fans. They might get close this year too. Attendance usually reflects the season before with a few exceptions. 2013 should be an indicator on how the fans showed up for a winner.
That's exactly right. IIRC, Coonelly initally told the lie made the comment that payroll would rise when the time was right. Then he backed off that a little and said payroll would rise when attendance showed the city's support. The 2013 attendance of 2.25 mil was second in franchise history only to the first year of PNC (2.46 mil in 2001). 2014 was even better (2.44 mil). 2015 set a new franchise record (2.49 mil). But payroll didn't go up for 2016. The "time was right" in terms of competing, coming off a 98-win year. The "time was right" in terms of attendance, which was the highest in team history. And the payroll in 2016? It went down. And down further in 2017. And as payroll went down, so did the team's competitiveness. And when that went down, so did attendance.
And now it's the same old song and dance. "Payroll is based on attendance." Except the last time they said that they were lying. Why believe them now? Fans can spend money on the Steelers and Pens. Teams that make an effort to reward their fans with good play. The Pirates are too cheap to do that. The Pirates took a great fan base and whittled it down by whittling payroll and team talent down. It's almost as though they deliberately downgraded the team in order to downgrade attendance in order to blame not spending money on the fans. But this is not a "chicken or the egg" scenario. The attendance was there. It dwindled because the product on the field was downgraded. Not the other way around.
If it came down to it, are you going to spend $100 at a Pirates game or $150 at the Steelers game? I would assume most would pick the Steelers.
Again, not an excuse. Huntington shouldn't mention the fans. the fans proved to show up when the team was good. They had five years in a row with over 2 million fans. They might get close this year too. Attendance usually reflects the season before with a few exceptions. 2013 should be an indicator on how the fans showed up for a winner.
That's exactly right. IIRC, Coonelly initally told the lie made the comment that payroll would rise when the time was right. Then he backed off that a little and said payroll would rise when attendance showed the city's support. The 2013 attendance of 2.25 mil was second in franchise history only to the first year of PNC (2.46 mil in 2001). 2014 was even better (2.44 mil). 2015 set a new franchise record (2.49 mil). But payroll didn't go up for 2016. The "time was right" in terms of competing, coming off a 98-win year. The "time was right" in terms of attendance, which was the highest in team history. And the payroll in 2016? It went down. And down further in 2017. And as payroll went down, so did the team's competitiveness. And when that went down, so did attendance.
And now it's the same old song and dance. "Payroll is based on attendance." Except the last time they said that they were lying. Why believe them now? Fans can spend money on the Steelers and Pens. Teams that make an effort to reward their fans with good play. The Pirates are too cheap to do that. The Pirates took a great fan base and whittled it down by whittling payroll and team talent down. It's almost as though they deliberately downgraded the team in order to downgrade attendance in order to blame not spending money on the fans. But this is not a "chicken or the egg" scenario. The attendance was there. It dwindled because the product on the field was downgraded. Not the other way around.