Only the bucs

[Wildwoodcoach]

Ironically, the title of this topic is extremely close to the name of this Forum.
I mentioned this last year and after reading Jolly Roger's post concerning last nights game
it all surfaced again. I am talking about the mental lapses and the complete lack of fundamentals
and mistakes that Little Leaguers don't make. Part of the problem besides the fact that the bucs
have the worst owner in baseball ( but we all know that) is the following: With the baseball package,
I watch a great many games. The teams that do well, for the most part, have a set line up. The Pirates
continue to just plug someone in the lineup and play wherever. Example Tommy Pham. Suwinshi, Triolo
IKF, Frazier, Valdez,and some others. It is not easy to master one position let alone multiple ones. You can ask
Doc who God Bless him, still plays baseball as an Outfielder. He will tell you that a ball hit to left comes off the bat
differently than one hit to Right. Then they have Frazier who plays Infield and Outfield. I haven't mentioned Cruz
yet, because he is just plain stupid and should just DH.
Now we go back to ownership. The teams that do well for the most part have players with set positions. These players
are paid very well. So, when the owner is a penny pincher, you get players who can play different positions but none of
them very well. You certainly can save money that way when you can just plug anyone in there. I can go on, but I am sure
you see my point. I seldom go on like this so please don't compare me with Surg.

[Bobster]

I think another problem is the culture of losing. Players on winning teams know the feeling of playing for the good of the team. No one wants to let the others down because doing so can cost games that are valuable in the pennant race. Players on a team that is rarely in contention for anything are probably more likely to play for their own benefit. If you don't feel like hustling, you don't. If you get one less base because you stood and admired a long hit, who cares? If you want to swing for the fences instead of situational hitting, it's worth the gamble because the team isn't going anywhere anyway. If you try unsuccessfully for a sensational diving catch instead of playing the ball into a single, it's worth it to make the highlight reel. Letting the team down when it just leads to one more loss in series of losses doesn't feel as bad as costing the team in a significant game.

And the players see that Cherington doesn't add top talent. They see that Shelton seems to manage for some future game instead of the game in front of him. They know they are on a team going nowhere. It's the perfect storm for a culture of losing and not caring to do things right.

[Wildwoodcoach]

I think another problem is the culture of losing. Players on winning teams know the feeling of playing for the good of the team. No one wants to let the others down because doing so can cost games that are valuable in the pennant race. Players on a team that is rarely in contention for anything are probably more likely to play for their own benefit. If you don't feel like hustling, you don't. If you get one less base because you stood and admired a long hit, who cares? If you want to swing for the fences instead of situational hitting, it's worth the gamble because the team isn't going anywhere anyway. If you try unsuccessfully for a sensational diving catch instead of playing the ball into a single, it's worth it to make the highlight reel. Letting the team down when it just leads to one more loss in series of losses doesn't feel as bad as costing the team in a significant game.

And the players see that Cherington doesn't add top talent. They see that Shelton seems to manage for some future game instead of the game in front of him. They know they are on a team going nowhere. It's the perfect storm for a culture of losing and not caring to do things right.

Add this to mine and add that since Shelton lets the players get away with this attitude,
what else can one expect

[Babe Adams]

I think one of their problems is this business model of dealing off veterans for prospects, with result that the team is a patchwork of other organizations. When the Pirates take a player to the trade market, there's probably a couple hundred guys they're willing to accept in return, and the other teams can slip their guys who aren't focused during drills into the package of players they offer

[Bobster]

I think one of their problems is this business model of dealing off veterans for prospects, with result that the team is a patchwork of other organizations. When the Pirates take a player to the trade market, there's probably a couple hundred guys they're willing to accept in return, and the other teams can slip their guys who aren't focused during drills into the package of players they offer

When the Pirates make trades, they never receive topnotch talent in return because those players come with large contracts that Nutting won't pay. I suspect they are offered better players than they accept because of the money factor. So they always trade quality for quantity. And teams rarely give up top prospects. So a Pirates GM has to evaluate MLB players who might have unreached potential and minor league 2nd-tier prospects whose organizations are willing to part with them but might develop into something more. But for every Cruz or Reynolds or Musgrove, they get a Suwinski or a Colin Moran or a Michael Feliz. And when Huntington actually traded for a proven veteran, he acquired Chris Archer, who was coming off 2 previous bad years and still struggling at mid-season when the trade was made and gave up top prospects to get him. So that was a gross misevaluation of talent. It's tough to make good trades when you won't accept proven good players and are bad at evaluating talent for the unproven ones.