Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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GermanTownship
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
Will wonders ever cease in Pirate baseball? Fielding errors will always be a part of the game. But, the constant boneheaded acts that I read in the news about what transpires during their games, it seems on a daily basis, never gets old. If players like Castro and Cruz are allowed to continue doing things that are stupid, how can anyone expect to see improvements for next year. Tired of hearing comments from Shelton about “teaching moments “. When Castro had his phone on him, and then Cruz constantly being pick off bases, they should have been immediately been benched (Cruz), and taken out of the game (Castro). Listening to the game, when Cruz was picked off, the announcer was laughing about it. He described how the pitcher was staring at him the whole time, but yet Cruz took a huge lead. They should have been sent to Indianapolis that day. These two are not exactly tearing up the league. Just look at their batting averages. Brings back bad memories of Gregory Polanco. Did he ever get better? The answer is, no. Who on OBN can actually say anything positive about any young player, other than Keller? We all know that ownership will not ever go big in free agency. Other than Hayes, Reynolds, and Newman, who else would you want back in your starting lineup next year. Newman should be either the starting shortstop or 2nd baseman next year. I also would add Chavis. Did I forget anybody that should be an everyday player, and I do mean everyday?This crap about “resting” has to stop. Put your best lineup out there everyday. If you want to win.
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Bobster21
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
It does seem that players rarely get better in their time as Pirates. Failed Pirate pitchers seem to immediately improve with a new organization and cite help they received from their new team. Even Josh Bell's defense immediately improved with the Nats and he cited the coaching. Yu Chang is hitting .306 for Tampa. Other than Keller, it's hard to find anyone who seems to be improving. That's an indictment of the coaching.
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
At present, hope may be all we have.
1) While I am encouraged to see a number of rookies playing, none have flashed the 'can't miss' tag. Hopefully some show some signs of growth over the next 1.5 months of games.
2) The key veterans, Hayes and Reynolds are both looking pretty average, and Hayes is showing some signs of fragility.
3) With the exception of Kellar (whose better performance has spanned all of 2 months), the remaining starters are below average pitchers.
4) The pen is very circumspect. They collectively do well in short stretches, but they get torched all too regularly.
5) The manager and 3rd base coach should have been shown the door at the all-star break.
At this point, hard to see this team competing next season.
1) While I am encouraged to see a number of rookies playing, none have flashed the 'can't miss' tag. Hopefully some show some signs of growth over the next 1.5 months of games.
2) The key veterans, Hayes and Reynolds are both looking pretty average, and Hayes is showing some signs of fragility.
3) With the exception of Kellar (whose better performance has spanned all of 2 months), the remaining starters are below average pitchers.
4) The pen is very circumspect. They collectively do well in short stretches, but they get torched all too regularly.
5) The manager and 3rd base coach should have been shown the door at the all-star break.
At this point, hard to see this team competing next season.
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maher.timothy20@gm
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
7E535E4F48594E0E0D3C0 wrote: It does seem that players rarely get better in their time as Pirates. Failed Pirate pitchers seem to immediately improve with a new organization and cite help they received from their new team. Even Josh Bell's defense immediately improved with the Nats and he cited the coaching. Yu Chang is hitting .306 for Tampa. Other than Keller, it's hard to find anyone who seems to be improving. That's an indictment of the coaching.
I wonder if it's also a matter of being too impatient. Players often get better into their mid and late 20s. We could right now be fielding a team that includes Josh Bell, Jameson Taillon, Joe Musgrove, Tyler Glasnow, Shane Baz, Austin Meadows, etc. Maybe we could have extended Starling Marte the way we did with Hayes.
I'm not sure if any of our minor league talent measures up to what we traded away, aside from Henry Davis who we only got indirectly from those trades (because they made us stink bad enough to get the top pick).
I wonder if it's also a matter of being too impatient. Players often get better into their mid and late 20s. We could right now be fielding a team that includes Josh Bell, Jameson Taillon, Joe Musgrove, Tyler Glasnow, Shane Baz, Austin Meadows, etc. Maybe we could have extended Starling Marte the way we did with Hayes.
I'm not sure if any of our minor league talent measures up to what we traded away, aside from Henry Davis who we only got indirectly from those trades (because they made us stink bad enough to get the top pick).
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WildwoodDave2
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
644840474C6B5C4A5A290 wrote: At present, hope may be all we have.
1) While I am encouraged to see a number of rookies playing, none have flashed the 'can't miss' tag. Hopefully some show some signs of growth over the next 1.5 months of games.
2) The key veterans, Hayes and Reynolds are both looking pretty average, and Hayes is showing some signs of fragility.
3) With the exception of Kellar (whose better performance has spanned all of 2 months), the remaining starters are below average pitchers.
4) The pen is very circumspect. They collectively do well in short stretches, but they get torched all too regularly.
5) The manager and 3rd base coach should have been shown the door at the all-star break.
At this point, hard to see this team competing next season.
They should play all the rookies the remainder of the season and try to get a feel for what they have.
1) While I am encouraged to see a number of rookies playing, none have flashed the 'can't miss' tag. Hopefully some show some signs of growth over the next 1.5 months of games.
2) The key veterans, Hayes and Reynolds are both looking pretty average, and Hayes is showing some signs of fragility.
3) With the exception of Kellar (whose better performance has spanned all of 2 months), the remaining starters are below average pitchers.
4) The pen is very circumspect. They collectively do well in short stretches, but they get torched all too regularly.
5) The manager and 3rd base coach should have been shown the door at the all-star break.
At this point, hard to see this team competing next season.
They should play all the rookies the remainder of the season and try to get a feel for what they have.
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DemDog
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
0C32373F2C34343F1F3A2D3E695B0 wrote: At present, hope may be all we have.
1) While I am encouraged to see a number of rookies playing, none have flashed the 'can't miss' tag. Hopefully some show some signs of growth over the next 1.5 months of games.
2) The key veterans, Hayes and Reynolds are both looking pretty average, and Hayes is showing some signs of fragility.
3) With the exception of Kellar (whose better performance has spanned all of 2 months), the remaining starters are below average pitchers.
4) The pen is very circumspect. They collectively do well in short stretches, but they get torched all too regularly.
5) The manager and 3rd base coach should have been shown the door at the all-star break.
At this point, hard to see this team competing next season.
They should play all the rookies the remainder of the season and try to get a feel for what they have.
That means setting, Hayes & Reynolds, Keller & Brubaker, Crowe & Bednar (when he is healthy), and a few vets who won't be around next season.
1) While I am encouraged to see a number of rookies playing, none have flashed the 'can't miss' tag. Hopefully some show some signs of growth over the next 1.5 months of games.
2) The key veterans, Hayes and Reynolds are both looking pretty average, and Hayes is showing some signs of fragility.
3) With the exception of Kellar (whose better performance has spanned all of 2 months), the remaining starters are below average pitchers.
4) The pen is very circumspect. They collectively do well in short stretches, but they get torched all too regularly.
5) The manager and 3rd base coach should have been shown the door at the all-star break.
At this point, hard to see this team competing next season.
They should play all the rookies the remainder of the season and try to get a feel for what they have.
That means setting, Hayes & Reynolds, Keller & Brubaker, Crowe & Bednar (when he is healthy), and a few vets who won't be around next season.
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WildwoodDave2
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
705159705B53340 wrote: At present, hope may be all we have.
1) While I am encouraged to see a number of rookies playing, none have flashed the 'can't miss' tag. Hopefully some show some signs of growth over the next 1.5 months of games.
2) The key veterans, Hayes and Reynolds are both looking pretty average, and Hayes is showing some signs of fragility.
3) With the exception of Kellar (whose better performance has spanned all of 2 months), the remaining starters are below average pitchers.
4) The pen is very circumspect. They collectively do well in short stretches, but they get torched all too regularly.
5) The manager and 3rd base coach should have been shown the door at the all-star break.
At this point, hard to see this team competing next season.
They should play all the rookies the remainder of the season and try to get a feel for what they have.
That means setting, Hayes & Reynolds, Keller & Brubaker, Crowe & Bednar (when he is healthy), and a few vets who won't be around next season. :P
Gamel, VANMETER, Newman Underwood GODOY (falls in VanMeter category) De Jong, Banuelos Not sure about Allen yet.In regard to Gamel, I like him but if they are not going to
sign him, why play him?
1) While I am encouraged to see a number of rookies playing, none have flashed the 'can't miss' tag. Hopefully some show some signs of growth over the next 1.5 months of games.
2) The key veterans, Hayes and Reynolds are both looking pretty average, and Hayes is showing some signs of fragility.
3) With the exception of Kellar (whose better performance has spanned all of 2 months), the remaining starters are below average pitchers.
4) The pen is very circumspect. They collectively do well in short stretches, but they get torched all too regularly.
5) The manager and 3rd base coach should have been shown the door at the all-star break.
At this point, hard to see this team competing next season.
They should play all the rookies the remainder of the season and try to get a feel for what they have.
That means setting, Hayes & Reynolds, Keller & Brubaker, Crowe & Bednar (when he is healthy), and a few vets who won't be around next season. :P
Gamel, VANMETER, Newman Underwood GODOY (falls in VanMeter category) De Jong, Banuelos Not sure about Allen yet.In regard to Gamel, I like him but if they are not going to
sign him, why play him?
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
I get everyone's frustration, but I'd like to point out, there isn't a doubt in my mind a lot of it comes from these close losses.
And we've had a lot of them. The difference we're seeing from last season is now we're experiencing how close we can be to actually being a competent team.
They have introduced a number of new players this year to get their feet wet. We're also getting our feet wet.
I can see on the horizon where more of these close games start getting won. That's a plus.
My issues are as someone mentioned, there doesn't seem to be a sure thing with any of these young guys. But let's stop for a second and think, before this season did anyone every mention Bligh Madris? Marcano? Suwinski? Mitchell? I think we need to take a step back and realize, the guys that are supposed to be the next big thing are in AA and A ball.
I know there's a blowhard all about banging on BC on this board, but give the guy a chance. Who the heck starts a thing over with no budget and builds it overnight? NO ONE. His first draft had 5 rounds and no one he was able to watch play. He's had two full drafts now. Were you expecting them to make the jump from high school all star to MLB all star in two years?
Just my take. Some say it doesn't make a difference firing the manager of a bad team mid season. I disagree. I hear all the time managers only affect "X" amount of games a season. I think that's horse hockey, because teams like the Pirates have a wider margin of one bad decision affecting the outcome, and I think Shelton has repeatedly done this.
I have criticism of BC myself, first and foremost is Shelton, and secondly, this continued resting of players. I would love to hear him explain to me how Contreras couldn't be built up in the majors instead of AAA. I would love to know why Josh VanMeter has been on the roster all season, when there are clearly guys from AA up that can outplay him, or at least play to his level. What are they going to do with Cruz? That rifle arm aside, he looks like he plays shortstop on ice skates, and I don't think he's going to be the future there. This will be my last take on BC, I want to see him extend Reynolds. He came back down to earth, but he's still the face of the franchise no matter how much they want to make it someone else. I see the names on the backs of the jerseys, and when it comes to the current team, only Hayes is close.
And we've had a lot of them. The difference we're seeing from last season is now we're experiencing how close we can be to actually being a competent team.
They have introduced a number of new players this year to get their feet wet. We're also getting our feet wet.
I can see on the horizon where more of these close games start getting won. That's a plus.
My issues are as someone mentioned, there doesn't seem to be a sure thing with any of these young guys. But let's stop for a second and think, before this season did anyone every mention Bligh Madris? Marcano? Suwinski? Mitchell? I think we need to take a step back and realize, the guys that are supposed to be the next big thing are in AA and A ball.
I know there's a blowhard all about banging on BC on this board, but give the guy a chance. Who the heck starts a thing over with no budget and builds it overnight? NO ONE. His first draft had 5 rounds and no one he was able to watch play. He's had two full drafts now. Were you expecting them to make the jump from high school all star to MLB all star in two years?
Just my take. Some say it doesn't make a difference firing the manager of a bad team mid season. I disagree. I hear all the time managers only affect "X" amount of games a season. I think that's horse hockey, because teams like the Pirates have a wider margin of one bad decision affecting the outcome, and I think Shelton has repeatedly done this.
I have criticism of BC myself, first and foremost is Shelton, and secondly, this continued resting of players. I would love to hear him explain to me how Contreras couldn't be built up in the majors instead of AAA. I would love to know why Josh VanMeter has been on the roster all season, when there are clearly guys from AA up that can outplay him, or at least play to his level. What are they going to do with Cruz? That rifle arm aside, he looks like he plays shortstop on ice skates, and I don't think he's going to be the future there. This will be my last take on BC, I want to see him extend Reynolds. He came back down to earth, but he's still the face of the franchise no matter how much they want to make it someone else. I see the names on the backs of the jerseys, and when it comes to the current team, only Hayes is close.
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
6A4C4B5E575B4C5A52390 wrote: I get everyone's frustration, but I'd like to point out, there isn't a doubt in my mind a lot of it comes from these close losses.
And we've had a lot of them. The difference we're seeing from last season is now we're experiencing how close we can be to actually being a competent team.
They have introduced a number of new players this year to get their feet wet. We're also getting our feet wet.
I can see on the horizon where more of these close games start getting won. That's a plus.
My issues are as someone mentioned, there doesn't seem to be a sure thing with any of these young guys. But let's stop for a second and think, before this season did anyone every mention Bligh Madris? Marcano? Suwinski? Mitchell? I think we need to take a step back and realize, the guys that are supposed to be the next big thing are in AA and A ball.
I know there's a blowhard all about banging on BC on this board, but give the guy a chance. Who the heck starts a thing over with no budget and builds it overnight? NO ONE. His first draft had 5 rounds and no one he was able to watch play. He's had two full drafts now. Were you expecting them to make the jump from high school all star to MLB all star in two years?
Just my take. Some say it doesn't make a difference firing the manager of a bad team mid season. I disagree. I hear all the time managers only affect "X" amount of games a season. I think that's horse hockey, because teams like the Pirates have a wider margin of one bad decision affecting the outcome, and I think Shelton has repeatedly done this.
I have criticism of BC myself, first and foremost is Shelton, and secondly, this continued resting of players. I would love to hear him explain to me how Contreras couldn't be built up in the majors instead of AAA. I would love to know why Josh VanMeter has been on the roster all season, when there are clearly guys from AA up that can outplay him, or at least play to his level. What are they going to do with Cruz? That rifle arm aside, he looks like he plays shortstop on ice skates, and I don't think he's going to be the future there. This will be my last take on BC, I want to see him extend Reynolds. He came back down to earth, but he's still the face of the franchise no matter how much they want to make it someone else. I see the names on the backs of the jerseys, and when it comes to the current team, only Hayes is close.
BC has dealt a lot of players: Frazier, Marte, Stallings, Bell, Musgrove, and Taillon. Those were all pretty big deals. I just can't see giving BC a pass for 2023 (meaning a season close to this one and being satisifed).
The Cruz at short situation is tricky to me. It looks to me like he is making a pretty good effort to stick at short. I haven't watched enough of him on television to determine if that is just wishful thinking on my part. He's made 5 errors this year but as with most infielders it's the plays that he doesn't make that need to be corrected.
And we've had a lot of them. The difference we're seeing from last season is now we're experiencing how close we can be to actually being a competent team.
They have introduced a number of new players this year to get their feet wet. We're also getting our feet wet.
I can see on the horizon where more of these close games start getting won. That's a plus.
My issues are as someone mentioned, there doesn't seem to be a sure thing with any of these young guys. But let's stop for a second and think, before this season did anyone every mention Bligh Madris? Marcano? Suwinski? Mitchell? I think we need to take a step back and realize, the guys that are supposed to be the next big thing are in AA and A ball.
I know there's a blowhard all about banging on BC on this board, but give the guy a chance. Who the heck starts a thing over with no budget and builds it overnight? NO ONE. His first draft had 5 rounds and no one he was able to watch play. He's had two full drafts now. Were you expecting them to make the jump from high school all star to MLB all star in two years?
Just my take. Some say it doesn't make a difference firing the manager of a bad team mid season. I disagree. I hear all the time managers only affect "X" amount of games a season. I think that's horse hockey, because teams like the Pirates have a wider margin of one bad decision affecting the outcome, and I think Shelton has repeatedly done this.
I have criticism of BC myself, first and foremost is Shelton, and secondly, this continued resting of players. I would love to hear him explain to me how Contreras couldn't be built up in the majors instead of AAA. I would love to know why Josh VanMeter has been on the roster all season, when there are clearly guys from AA up that can outplay him, or at least play to his level. What are they going to do with Cruz? That rifle arm aside, he looks like he plays shortstop on ice skates, and I don't think he's going to be the future there. This will be my last take on BC, I want to see him extend Reynolds. He came back down to earth, but he's still the face of the franchise no matter how much they want to make it someone else. I see the names on the backs of the jerseys, and when it comes to the current team, only Hayes is close.
BC has dealt a lot of players: Frazier, Marte, Stallings, Bell, Musgrove, and Taillon. Those were all pretty big deals. I just can't see giving BC a pass for 2023 (meaning a season close to this one and being satisifed).
The Cruz at short situation is tricky to me. It looks to me like he is making a pretty good effort to stick at short. I haven't watched enough of him on television to determine if that is just wishful thinking on my part. He's made 5 errors this year but as with most infielders it's the plays that he doesn't make that need to be corrected.
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maher.timothy20@gm
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
5B7D7A6F666A7D6B63080 wrote: I get everyone's frustration, but I'd like to point out, there isn't a doubt in my mind a lot of it comes from these close losses.
And we've had a lot of them. The difference we're seeing from last season is now we're experiencing how close we can be to actually being a competent team.
They have introduced a number of new players this year to get their feet wet. We're also getting our feet wet.
I can see on the horizon where more of these close games start getting won. That's a plus.
My issues are as someone mentioned, there doesn't seem to be a sure thing with any of these young guys. But let's stop for a second and think, before this season did anyone every mention Bligh Madris? Marcano? Suwinski? Mitchell? I think we need to take a step back and realize, the guys that are supposed to be the next big thing are in AA and A ball.
I know there's a blowhard all about banging on BC on this board, but give the guy a chance. Who the heck starts a thing over with no budget and builds it overnight? NO ONE. His first draft had 5 rounds and no one he was able to watch play. He's had two full drafts now. Were you expecting them to make the jump from high school all star to MLB all star in two years?
Just my take. Some say it doesn't make a difference firing the manager of a bad team mid season. I disagree. I hear all the time managers only affect "X" amount of games a season. I think that's horse hockey, because teams like the Pirates have a wider margin of one bad decision affecting the outcome, and I think Shelton has repeatedly done this.
I have criticism of BC myself, first and foremost is Shelton, and secondly, this continued resting of players. I would love to hear him explain to me how Contreras couldn't be built up in the majors instead of AAA. I would love to know why Josh VanMeter has been on the roster all season, when there are clearly guys from AA up that can outplay him, or at least play to his level. What are they going to do with Cruz? That rifle arm aside, he looks like he plays shortstop on ice skates, and I don't think he's going to be the future there. This will be my last take on BC, I want to see him extend Reynolds. He came back down to earth, but he's still the face of the franchise no matter how much they want to make it someone else. I see the names on the backs of the jerseys, and when it comes to the current team, only Hayes is close.
I've been on board with the rebuild generally but the past few weeks has really brought home that not all rebuilds work.
The Taillon and Musgrove trades are hard to measure now but it seems apparent that the Bell and Marte trades were complete busts. Those are two damn good players and we got virtually nothing in return.
I've assumed all arrows were pointing toward 2024 but now I'm wondering if they're really pointing toward 2030.
And we've had a lot of them. The difference we're seeing from last season is now we're experiencing how close we can be to actually being a competent team.
They have introduced a number of new players this year to get their feet wet. We're also getting our feet wet.
I can see on the horizon where more of these close games start getting won. That's a plus.
My issues are as someone mentioned, there doesn't seem to be a sure thing with any of these young guys. But let's stop for a second and think, before this season did anyone every mention Bligh Madris? Marcano? Suwinski? Mitchell? I think we need to take a step back and realize, the guys that are supposed to be the next big thing are in AA and A ball.
I know there's a blowhard all about banging on BC on this board, but give the guy a chance. Who the heck starts a thing over with no budget and builds it overnight? NO ONE. His first draft had 5 rounds and no one he was able to watch play. He's had two full drafts now. Were you expecting them to make the jump from high school all star to MLB all star in two years?
Just my take. Some say it doesn't make a difference firing the manager of a bad team mid season. I disagree. I hear all the time managers only affect "X" amount of games a season. I think that's horse hockey, because teams like the Pirates have a wider margin of one bad decision affecting the outcome, and I think Shelton has repeatedly done this.
I have criticism of BC myself, first and foremost is Shelton, and secondly, this continued resting of players. I would love to hear him explain to me how Contreras couldn't be built up in the majors instead of AAA. I would love to know why Josh VanMeter has been on the roster all season, when there are clearly guys from AA up that can outplay him, or at least play to his level. What are they going to do with Cruz? That rifle arm aside, he looks like he plays shortstop on ice skates, and I don't think he's going to be the future there. This will be my last take on BC, I want to see him extend Reynolds. He came back down to earth, but he's still the face of the franchise no matter how much they want to make it someone else. I see the names on the backs of the jerseys, and when it comes to the current team, only Hayes is close.
I've been on board with the rebuild generally but the past few weeks has really brought home that not all rebuilds work.
The Taillon and Musgrove trades are hard to measure now but it seems apparent that the Bell and Marte trades were complete busts. Those are two damn good players and we got virtually nothing in return.
I've assumed all arrows were pointing toward 2024 but now I'm wondering if they're really pointing toward 2030.