With the Pirates active roster now at the allowed maximum of 28 players, there is a real contrast between the pitchers and the position players.
There are 14 pitchers on the roster and Banuelos is the only left-hander. This is a situation in which he is really ripe to be over used and abused. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that so many of the right-handed relievers are not very good, and it appears that there are going to treat the newly acquired Stephenson as the equivalent of a Rule 5 pitcher.
Of the 14 position players on the roster, 6 bat exclusively left-handed, 4 are switch hitters, and only 4 bat exclusively right handed.
Going forward, read next year, the above left - right imbalances clearly need attention.
What a Contrast
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
What a Contrast
well PNC Park was built in such a way that the Bucs could get left handed hitters and left handed pitchers to provide an advantage to the home team. So far neither NH or BC has been concerned about it.
I used to think this was an organizational flaw. Now I think trying to build a team to take a little advantage of the home park doesn't matter much. There are probably just as many places on the road where it would be a disadvantage.
I used to think this was an organizational flaw. Now I think trying to build a team to take a little advantage of the home park doesn't matter much. There are probably just as many places on the road where it would be a disadvantage.
-
Bobster21
What a Contrast
270100170111620 wrote: well PNC Park was built in such a way that the Bucs could get left handed hitters and left handed pitchers to provide an advantage to the home team. So far neither NH or BC has been concerned about it.
I used to think this was an organizational flaw. Now I think trying to build a team to take a little advantage of the home park doesn't matter much. There are probably just as many places on the road where it would be a disadvantage.
The Pirates play 81 games at PNC with the other 81 divided among all other ballparks on their schedule. The only way there would be just as many disadvantages on the road is if every other park was a disadvantage to LH hitters and pitchers. Some, no doubt, would be but unless they all were, the Pirates would have the advantage by tailoring their roster to their home park.
I used to think this was an organizational flaw. Now I think trying to build a team to take a little advantage of the home park doesn't matter much. There are probably just as many places on the road where it would be a disadvantage.
The Pirates play 81 games at PNC with the other 81 divided among all other ballparks on their schedule. The only way there would be just as many disadvantages on the road is if every other park was a disadvantage to LH hitters and pitchers. Some, no doubt, would be but unless they all were, the Pirates would have the advantage by tailoring their roster to their home park.
What a Contrast
5E737E6F68796E2E2D1C0 wrote: well PNC Park was built in such a way that the Bucs could get left handed hitters and left handed pitchers to provide an advantage to the home team. So far neither NH or BC has been concerned about it.
I used to think this was an organizational flaw. Now I think trying to build a team to take a little advantage of the home park doesn't matter much. There are probably just as many places on the road where it would be a disadvantage.
The Pirates play 81 games at PNC with the other 81 divided among all other ballparks on their schedule. The only way there would be just as many disadvantages on the road is if every other park was a disadvantage to LH hitters and pitchers. Some, no doubt, would be but unless they all were, the Pirates would have the advantage by tailoring their roster to their home park.
That makes sense to me but apparently it isn't a big enough advantage for the Pirates to tailor the team to fit it.
I used to think this was an organizational flaw. Now I think trying to build a team to take a little advantage of the home park doesn't matter much. There are probably just as many places on the road where it would be a disadvantage.
The Pirates play 81 games at PNC with the other 81 divided among all other ballparks on their schedule. The only way there would be just as many disadvantages on the road is if every other park was a disadvantage to LH hitters and pitchers. Some, no doubt, would be but unless they all were, the Pirates would have the advantage by tailoring their roster to their home park.
That makes sense to me but apparently it isn't a big enough advantage for the Pirates to tailor the team to fit it.
-
Bobster21
What a Contrast
6E48495E48582B0 wrote: well PNC Park was built in such a way that the Bucs could get left handed hitters and left handed pitchers to provide an advantage to the home team. So far neither NH or BC has been concerned about it.
I used to think this was an organizational flaw. Now I think trying to build a team to take a little advantage of the home park doesn't matter much. There are probably just as many places on the road where it would be a disadvantage.
The Pirates play 81 games at PNC with the other 81 divided among all other ballparks on their schedule. The only way there would be just as many disadvantages on the road is if every other park was a disadvantage to LH hitters and pitchers. Some, no doubt, would be but unless they all were, the Pirates would have the advantage by tailoring their roster to their home park.
That makes sense to me but apparently it isn't a big enough advantage for the Pirates to tailor the team to fit it.
Most teams will acquire what they need to give them an advantage in their home park. But that costs for FAs or trading for productive players with larger contracts. But those are not options for the Pirates who have to spend years developing minor leaguers to fill needs and hope they work out.
I used to think this was an organizational flaw. Now I think trying to build a team to take a little advantage of the home park doesn't matter much. There are probably just as many places on the road where it would be a disadvantage.
The Pirates play 81 games at PNC with the other 81 divided among all other ballparks on their schedule. The only way there would be just as many disadvantages on the road is if every other park was a disadvantage to LH hitters and pitchers. Some, no doubt, would be but unless they all were, the Pirates would have the advantage by tailoring their roster to their home park.
That makes sense to me but apparently it isn't a big enough advantage for the Pirates to tailor the team to fit it.
Most teams will acquire what they need to give them an advantage in their home park. But that costs for FAs or trading for productive players with larger contracts. But those are not options for the Pirates who have to spend years developing minor leaguers to fill needs and hope they work out.
-
2drfischer@gmail.c
What a Contrast
7E535E4F48594E0E0D3C0 wrote: well PNC Park was built in such a way that the Bucs could get left handed hitters and left handed pitchers to provide an advantage to the home team. So far neither NH or BC has been concerned about it.
I used to think this was an organizational flaw. Now I think trying to build a team to take a little advantage of the home park doesn't matter much. There are probably just as many places on the road where it would be a disadvantage.
The Pirates play 81 games at PNC with the other 81 divided among all other ballparks on their schedule. The only way there would be just as many disadvantages on the road is if every other park was a disadvantage to LH hitters and pitchers. Some, no doubt, would be but unless they all were, the Pirates would have the advantage by tailoring their roster to their home park.
That makes sense to me but apparently it isn't a big enough advantage for the Pirates to tailor the team to fit it.
Most teams will acquire what they need to give them an advantage in their home park. [highlight]But that costs for FAs or trading for productive players with larger contracts. But those are not options for the Pirates[/highlight] who have to spend years developing minor leaguers to fill needs and hope they work out.
I in no way excuse the GM, development staff, or coaches for poor play on the field, but you point out the crux of the problem here in Pittsburgh. It starts with how some franchises have a distinct advantage merely because of their locations. Football and hockey (I don't know anything about the NBA) have eliminated that advantage and the leagues overall are better for it because all teams have the same chance to be competitive.
Tampa and Oakland in particular, and teams like Minnesota and Milwaukee at other times, have shown it's possible to be competitive without being in large markets. They've built exceptional staffs throughout their organizations. So it's possible to be competitive, but the odds are far longer. It's also much more difficult to maintain and hold onto a good team for very long.
In addition to the Pirates being in small-market Pittsburgh, they're owned by a man who's primary interest is making the most money/spending the least money possible, all the while avoiding any risk. It leads to what we have here now.
I've said for years that the other owners don't care one wit about what's going on here. They have to share revenues with whoever owns the franchise in Pittsburgh, anyway. It's better for them that the owner has no interest in building a winning organization. It's one less team to compete against for a title.
So, for me, the root of the problem here in Pittsburgh begins with how baseball is not structured to be equitable. Compounding that is an owner who, foremost, places earning maximum profit above all else. Again, I don't excuse the GM and the scouting, development, and field staffs. But the bigger issues begin far above them and need to be resolved first before we can expect any kind of lasting opportunity to see our Pirates be genuinely competitive.
I used to think this was an organizational flaw. Now I think trying to build a team to take a little advantage of the home park doesn't matter much. There are probably just as many places on the road where it would be a disadvantage.
The Pirates play 81 games at PNC with the other 81 divided among all other ballparks on their schedule. The only way there would be just as many disadvantages on the road is if every other park was a disadvantage to LH hitters and pitchers. Some, no doubt, would be but unless they all were, the Pirates would have the advantage by tailoring their roster to their home park.
That makes sense to me but apparently it isn't a big enough advantage for the Pirates to tailor the team to fit it.
Most teams will acquire what they need to give them an advantage in their home park. [highlight]But that costs for FAs or trading for productive players with larger contracts. But those are not options for the Pirates[/highlight] who have to spend years developing minor leaguers to fill needs and hope they work out.
I in no way excuse the GM, development staff, or coaches for poor play on the field, but you point out the crux of the problem here in Pittsburgh. It starts with how some franchises have a distinct advantage merely because of their locations. Football and hockey (I don't know anything about the NBA) have eliminated that advantage and the leagues overall are better for it because all teams have the same chance to be competitive.
Tampa and Oakland in particular, and teams like Minnesota and Milwaukee at other times, have shown it's possible to be competitive without being in large markets. They've built exceptional staffs throughout their organizations. So it's possible to be competitive, but the odds are far longer. It's also much more difficult to maintain and hold onto a good team for very long.
In addition to the Pirates being in small-market Pittsburgh, they're owned by a man who's primary interest is making the most money/spending the least money possible, all the while avoiding any risk. It leads to what we have here now.
I've said for years that the other owners don't care one wit about what's going on here. They have to share revenues with whoever owns the franchise in Pittsburgh, anyway. It's better for them that the owner has no interest in building a winning organization. It's one less team to compete against for a title.
So, for me, the root of the problem here in Pittsburgh begins with how baseball is not structured to be equitable. Compounding that is an owner who, foremost, places earning maximum profit above all else. Again, I don't excuse the GM and the scouting, development, and field staffs. But the bigger issues begin far above them and need to be resolved first before we can expect any kind of lasting opportunity to see our Pirates be genuinely competitive.
-
WildwoodDave2
What a Contrast
164056424D57474C4156644349454D480A47240 wrote: well PNC Park was built in such a way that the Bucs could get left handed hitters and left handed pitchers to provide an advantage to the home team. So far neither NH or BC has been concerned about it.
I used to think this was an organizational flaw. Now I think trying to build a team to take a little advantage of the home park doesn't matter much. There are probably just as many places on the road where it would be a disadvantage.
The Pirates play 81 games at PNC with the other 81 divided among all other ballparks on their schedule. The only way there would be just as many disadvantages on the road is if every other park was a disadvantage to LH hitters and pitchers. Some, no doubt, would be but unless they all were, the Pirates would have the advantage by tailoring their roster to their home park.
That makes sense to me but apparently it isn't a big enough advantage for the Pirates to tailor the team to fit it.
Most teams will acquire what they need to give them an advantage in their home park. [highlight]But that costs for FAs or trading for productive players with larger contracts. But those are not options for the Pirates[/highlight] who have to spend years developing minor leaguers to fill needs and hope they work out.
I in no way excuse the GM, development staff, or coaches for poor play on the field, but you point out the crux of the problem here in Pittsburgh. It starts with how some franchises have a distinct advantage merely because of their locations. Football and hockey (I don't know anything about the NBA) have eliminated that advantage and the leagues overall are better for it because all teams have the same chance to be competitive.
Tampa and Oakland in particular, and teams like Minnesota and Milwaukee at other times, have shown it's possible to be competitive without being in large markets. They've built exceptional staffs throughout their organizations. So it's possible to be competitive, but the odds are far longer. It's also much more difficult to maintain and hold onto a good team for very long.
In addition to the Pirates being in small-market Pittsburgh, they're owned by a man who's primary interest is making the most money/spending the least money possible, all the while avoiding any risk. It leads to what we have here now.
I've said for years that the other owners don't care one wit about what's going on here. They have to share revenues with whoever owns the franchise in Pittsburgh, anyway. It's better for them that the owner has no interest in building a winning organization. It's one less team to compete against for a title.
So, for me, the root of the problem here in Pittsburgh begins with how baseball is not structured to be equitable. Compounding that is an owner who, foremost, places earning maximum profit above all else. Again, I don't excuse the GM and the scouting, development, and field staffs. But the bigger issues begin far above them and need to be resolved first before we can expect any kind of lasting opportunity to see our Pirates be genuinely competitive.
I am sure that everyone agrees with you on Nutting. I have said over and over that it starts at the top. That is why I give Cherington a pass in certain areas.
I used to think this was an organizational flaw. Now I think trying to build a team to take a little advantage of the home park doesn't matter much. There are probably just as many places on the road where it would be a disadvantage.
The Pirates play 81 games at PNC with the other 81 divided among all other ballparks on their schedule. The only way there would be just as many disadvantages on the road is if every other park was a disadvantage to LH hitters and pitchers. Some, no doubt, would be but unless they all were, the Pirates would have the advantage by tailoring their roster to their home park.
That makes sense to me but apparently it isn't a big enough advantage for the Pirates to tailor the team to fit it.
Most teams will acquire what they need to give them an advantage in their home park. [highlight]But that costs for FAs or trading for productive players with larger contracts. But those are not options for the Pirates[/highlight] who have to spend years developing minor leaguers to fill needs and hope they work out.
I in no way excuse the GM, development staff, or coaches for poor play on the field, but you point out the crux of the problem here in Pittsburgh. It starts with how some franchises have a distinct advantage merely because of their locations. Football and hockey (I don't know anything about the NBA) have eliminated that advantage and the leagues overall are better for it because all teams have the same chance to be competitive.
Tampa and Oakland in particular, and teams like Minnesota and Milwaukee at other times, have shown it's possible to be competitive without being in large markets. They've built exceptional staffs throughout their organizations. So it's possible to be competitive, but the odds are far longer. It's also much more difficult to maintain and hold onto a good team for very long.
In addition to the Pirates being in small-market Pittsburgh, they're owned by a man who's primary interest is making the most money/spending the least money possible, all the while avoiding any risk. It leads to what we have here now.
I've said for years that the other owners don't care one wit about what's going on here. They have to share revenues with whoever owns the franchise in Pittsburgh, anyway. It's better for them that the owner has no interest in building a winning organization. It's one less team to compete against for a title.
So, for me, the root of the problem here in Pittsburgh begins with how baseball is not structured to be equitable. Compounding that is an owner who, foremost, places earning maximum profit above all else. Again, I don't excuse the GM and the scouting, development, and field staffs. But the bigger issues begin far above them and need to be resolved first before we can expect any kind of lasting opportunity to see our Pirates be genuinely competitive.
I am sure that everyone agrees with you on Nutting. I have said over and over that it starts at the top. That is why I give Cherington a pass in certain areas.
-
2drfischer@gmail.c
What a Contrast
There's no question Cherington has made mistakes. While he hasn't said it, we all know his intention to build the minor league system first at the expense of the major league club. It's how it's been done successfully elsewhere. Admittedly, it has made him look bad at times, especially to those who want him to look bad.
Yes, it's fair to criticize his moves here in Pittsburgh. VanMeter represents all of the indefensible moves. Shelton has proven to be incapable, but I believe he was hired just to serve until the team becomes good, and then a legit manager will take his place.
The real judgment on BC will come beginning next year when his first draft selections/trade acquisitions begin to arrive in Pittsburgh. Until then, we're just speculating on his ability to identify young talent. It takes time for those guys to wind their way here. It's the frustrating reality.
Teams primarily build through the draft. BC has had only three, one of which just took place six weeks ago. He lost an entire minor league developmental year to the pandemic just after he took the job. I don't know of any other GM who faced that situation. Yes, he deserves criticism for some of his decisions but, in all fairness, he's not yet close to being done with his rebuild.
Yes, it's fair to criticize his moves here in Pittsburgh. VanMeter represents all of the indefensible moves. Shelton has proven to be incapable, but I believe he was hired just to serve until the team becomes good, and then a legit manager will take his place.
The real judgment on BC will come beginning next year when his first draft selections/trade acquisitions begin to arrive in Pittsburgh. Until then, we're just speculating on his ability to identify young talent. It takes time for those guys to wind their way here. It's the frustrating reality.
Teams primarily build through the draft. BC has had only three, one of which just took place six weeks ago. He lost an entire minor league developmental year to the pandemic just after he took the job. I don't know of any other GM who faced that situation. Yes, he deserves criticism for some of his decisions but, in all fairness, he's not yet close to being done with his rebuild.
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
What a Contrast
"All teams have the same chance to be competitive" in other sports is a fallacy. It is not true.
If it was true, then we would see teams like the Detroit Lions and others do better than they have. Go up and down the list.
Same finances.
They may have the same budgets, but that may be all they have that's equal.
"Money" is a convenient, and in some cases, fair excuse.
Competence is as driving, and probably larger force toward competitiveness than anything else.
Give the incompetent a blank check, and what will you get?
A well-off Incompetent.
If it was true, then we would see teams like the Detroit Lions and others do better than they have. Go up and down the list.
Same finances.
They may have the same budgets, but that may be all they have that's equal.
"Money" is a convenient, and in some cases, fair excuse.
Competence is as driving, and probably larger force toward competitiveness than anything else.
Give the incompetent a blank check, and what will you get?
A well-off Incompetent.
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
What a Contrast
The real judgment of Cherington is the same as when other general managers are judged: at the end of every game. Same as for the other 29.
The previous guy was run out of town for doing badly, and this guy hasn't even gotten there yet, let alone done better.
I dont understand why we have to wait so many years before it's fair to assess anyone.
.
People on this board haven't waited to criticize Shelton or some of Cherington's players, have they?
The previous guy was run out of town for doing badly, and this guy hasn't even gotten there yet, let alone done better.
I dont understand why we have to wait so many years before it's fair to assess anyone.
.
People on this board haven't waited to criticize Shelton or some of Cherington's players, have they?