Pirates Clubhouse

[Bobster]

Very interesting column on Dejan Kovacevic's blog. I know there are those who don't like Dejan and don't want to believe anything he writes. But this is a case of him simply describing what he witnessed.

He made the trip for the Cleveland series and went into the visitors'' clubhouse where he counted 15 names he did not recognize on the Pirates' locker stalls interspersed with the players' stalls. These turned out to be various staffers including exercise assistants, nutritionists, video workers and even a "coordinator, mental performance." While it is not unusual to employ such people, it is uncommon for them to travel with the team and share a clubhouse that is traditionally players only. Dejan inquired about this to a team official and was told it's due to trying to get every edge they can.

Others did not share Cherington's enthusiasm for this approach. Dejan asked an anonymous player about it and received an eye roll and a laugh. He asked someone associated with another team and was told, ""Enormous non-difference-making head count." Another source had not heard of other teams taking so many staffers on the road.

Not only does this approach not seem to be working (judged by the W-L record and mostly inadequate player performances) but it's likely counterproductive when players can't even talk to one another in the clubhouse for fear of saying something negative that one of Cherington's traveling minions reports back to him. It looks like another case of Cherington trying to be the smartest one in the room and employing every method for player improvement other than actually improving their ability to pitch, hit and field between the lines. At least their mental performance is being coordinated.

[Doc]

Very interesting column on Dejan Kovacevic's blog. I know there are those who don't like Dejan and don't want to believe anything he writes. But this is a case of him simply describing what he witnessed.

He made the trip for the Cleveland series and went into the visitors'' clubhouse where he counted 15 names he did not recognize on the Pirates' locker stalls interspersed with the players' stalls. These turned out to be various staffers including exercise assistants, nutritionists, video workers and even a "coordinator, mental performance." While it is not unusual to employ such people, it is uncommon for them to travel with the team and share a clubhouse that is traditionally players only. Dejan inquired about this to a team official and was told it's due to trying to get every edge they can.

Others did not share Cherington's enthusiasm for this approach. Dejan asked an anonymous player about it and received an eye roll and a laugh. He asked someone associated with another team and was told, ""Enormous non-difference-making head count." Another source had not heard of other teams taking so many staffers on the road.

Not only does this approach not seem to be working (judged by the W-L record and mostly inadequate player performances) but it's likely counterproductive when players can't even talk to one another in the clubhouse for fear of saying something negative that one of Cherington's traveling minions reports back to him. It looks like another case of Cherington trying to be the smartest one in the room and employing every method for player improvement other than actually improving their ability to pitch, hit and field between the lines. At least their mental performance is being coordinated.

Many of us have pointed out how bad the Pirates are at either identifying talent in the draft and/or in the development of those players. Looks like it might be more of the later, which makes more sense, especially when we see players leave here and go on to have success elsewhere.

[Bobster]

Many of us have pointed out how bad the Pirates are at either identifying talent in the draft and/or in the development of those players. Looks like it might be more of the later, which makes more sense, especially when we see players leave here and go on to have success elsewhere.

I'm reminded of the scene in "Money Ball" when Brad Pitt stops listening to his old scouting staff in favor of newer ideas. Seems like Cherington is all about new ideas and they aren't working. Maybe he needs to listen to a room full of old, cigar smoking baseball scouts who actually know good players when they see them. 'Cause there's way too few on the roster.

[Doc]

Many of us have pointed out how bad the Pirates are at either identifying talent in the draft and/or in the development of those players. Looks like it might be more of the later, which makes more sense, especially when we see players leave here and go on to have success elsewhere.

I'm reminded of the scene in "Money Ball" when Brad Pitt stops listening to his old scouting staff in favor of newer ideas. Seems like Cherington is all about new ideas and they aren't working. Maybe he needs to listen to a room full of old, cigar smoking baseball scouts who actually know good players when they see them. 'Cause there's way too few on the roster.

Good one. What he’s attempted over his time here has failed for the most part. Those ideas may work in another organization but they haven’t in his four years here.

[3pirates3]

You don't give random staffers clubhouse stalls alongside the players. I'm surprised Nutting's covering flights and accommodations for all these guys.

[Doc]

You don't give random staffers clubhouse stalls alongside the players. I'm surprised Nutting's covering flights and accommodations for all these guys.

Nutting has it covered, 3P. Those guys drove to Chicago in a minivan and are staying in a Motel 6 along the interstate near Gary, Indiana.

[mouse]

Has this been confirmed by any other source? This sounds more like an exaggeration for effect that an actual factual statement.

[Bobster]

Has this been confirmed by any other source? This sounds more like an exaggeration for effect that an actual factual statement.

Maybe you should ask if anyone is denying the story. The actual number was 18 but 3 of them belonged. Here's a quote. You can decide if it's an actual factual statement or an exaggeration for effect.

"The Pirates' clubhouse here at Progressive Field, meaning the one room dedicated to the players, had 18 non-players occupying stalls.

Uh-huh ... 18.

Nameplates and all. All interspersed throughout the room among the players, as opposed to being set apart in some way. No one was any different than Andrew McCutchen.

And not only were these not players, they weren't even any of Shelton's coaches, all of whom had a separate room. Two were athletic trainers, and that's the norm. One was a strength coach, also the norm. But the other 15, from the best I could tell, were various versions of staffers, exercise assistants, nutritionists, video workers and more, all part of Cherington's years-long hiring spree that's brought the most bloated version of baseball operations anyone can recall.

So there were 28 active players and 18 staffers in there. Walked around and tallied 'em up myself after the game."

He also stated, "I reached out to a team official who explained, without elaboration, that the Pirates feel it's important to try to get every edge they can."

No one has denied this. The Pirates haven't issued a statement objecting to it or citing a team official's explanation if the story itself was nothing more than an exaggeration. And I doubt Dejan would have readers very long is he just made stuff up and reported it as fact. But believe whatever you want.

[mouse]

I used to hear complaints in the days when the team would bring ten or twelve minor league players to the team that there was no locker space for everyone and how crowded it was. Eighteen non-players, with locker space, seems even more crowded.

[Bobster]

I used to hear complaints in the days when the team would bring ten or twelve minor league players to the team that there was no locker space for everyone and how crowded it was. Eighteen non-players, with locker space, seems even more crowded.

It sure does. Cleveland must have large clubhouses. Today Dejan wrote that there were only a few non players with locker stalls at Wrigley. I don’t know if that’s because there’s less room in the older ballpark or if it’s because the Pirates felt they were getting bad publicity.