Something to Think About This Offseason

fjk090852-7 · Post by **fjk090852-7** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:10 am

In 1977 the Bucs traded Al Oliver a very good player in return for Bert Blyleven and John Milner. Both players played key roles in the 1979 World Series team. During this season the conversations have been what should the Bucs decide to do with Cutch. What if they retain Cutch and field offers for Marte ? Can they acquire a solid pitcher like they did in 1977 and back up outfielder ? Can Marte bring them the players they need to reach the World Series? The outfielder they get in return and Frazier could play left field on a platoon basis. Maybe the Bucs also attempt to bring back S Rod who could also play left field on occasion. I agree that Marte is probably a better center fielder than Cutch at this time, but if the Bucs could acquire a solid pitcher with years of control and a decent outfielder would you trade Marte this off season ?

ArnoldRothstein · Post by **ArnoldRothstein** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:15 pm

I'm not anxious to trade Marte, but his HBPs make me nervous. He's 16th on the active list, everyone ahead of him is over 30. If someone offered value, I'd trade them the fractured radius that's waiting to happen.

Quail · Post by **Quail** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:36 pm

Personally I'd prefer to trade Cutch or Polanco before I trade Marte. There are a couple of reasons for this. First, given the priority assigned to 'financial flexibility' by the Pirates front office and ownership, keeping Cutch and his salary will inhibit spending in other important areas (starting pitching, bullpen, bench). Secondly I've seen enough of Cutch and Polanco to know that neither one cuts it defensively as a center fielder. Marte should be our center fielder going forward on a team that may have to rely on playing 'small ball' to be competitive.

If by some miracle the Pirates decide to actually spend the amount on payroll that is commensurate to their revenue and operating income (18th & 9th in MLB) versus their current payroll (25th) then keeping Cutch and his salary would not prevent spending in other team need areas. That being the case I think the Pirates could get the best trade return by dealing Marte, and I would be willing to make an 'Al Oliver-type of deal' with him. I think acquiring a top notch starting pitcher and a decent outfielder could make the continuing inadequacy of Cutch's CF defense at least somewhat tolerable in view of overall team strengthening.

Having said all of that I don't see the Pirates dealing any of our outfielders except Cutch. The organization is obsessed with internal valuations of personnel and their value versus cost ratio. As we saw with Liriano earlier this season, once a player is not delivering at the level the Pirates' deem cost effective they're gone.

MaineBucs · Post by **MaineBucs** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:53 pm

Although watching Polanco's performance slide has been difficult, I too remain in the camp of trading Cutch this off-season and keeping Marte and Polanco. All three have been beset with nagging injuries at one point or another, but I attribute much of that to the rigors of a 162 game schedule and constant travel.

I value the defense that Marte would bring to CF, recognizing that the team's defensive performance in LF will drop substantially. My hope is that by mid-season Meadows can arrive to help out.

Osushawn · Post by **Osushawn** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:38 pm

0E222A2D2601362030430 wrote: Although watching Polanco's performance slide has been difficult, I too remain in the camp of trading Cutch this off-season and keeping Marte and Polanco. All three have been beset with nagging injuries at one point or another, but I attribute much of that to the rigors of a 162 game schedule and constant travel.

I value the defense that Marte would bring to CF, recognizing that the team's defensive performance in LF will drop substantially. My hope is that by mid-season Meadows can arrive to help out.

I agree. We can keep Jaso for the meantime and hope he has a hot start again and put Bell in left. Trade/release Jaso once Meadows is ready and move Pedro Bell back to first.

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:14 pm

I think most people would want to trade McCutchen. I think most teams would rather have one of the other two (Polanco, Marte).

That is the question. Would you trade Marte for that return?

Personally, I would have to know who these Pitchers are first to just answer that. Marte is a special talent. Yeah, he had a down year, but plenty of signs oh him being a super star or at least as good as what McCutchen has done.

I think the Pirates have other chips to trade. It is hard to trade young talent, but the pitchers right now could bring a decent return too. If there is a team that is looking to rebuild or know they are few years away, they might like Brault, Williams, Kuhl or Glasnow.

That is the route I would take. Try to win now by keeping your starting eight and trade for a known Pitcher.

mouse · Post by **mouse** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:56 pm

If I were trading an outfielder I would probably go with Polanco. He would fetch a good return and is the least intense of the outfielders. But I would also move Cutch to maybe left field and shift Marte to center.

kansasfan · Post by **kansasfan** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:32 pm

While I'm not a huge fan of WAR (as I do not agree with how much emphasis is puts on baserunning and defensive metrics that I believe still need a whole lot more work to be truly accurate), Marte is 2nd and Polanco 20th in the NL in WAR for all outfielders with over 300 plate appearances (ESPN version).

They are both younger and (in the near term) less expensive than Cutch - and they do not have Cutch's brand appeal. Add to that the ability to put Marte in CF and Bell in the OF (at least until Meadows comes up), and I truly believe Cutch is the best of the OF to trade and could fetch us a starting pitcher with 1 or 2 years of control left. Just don't know who.

Although I do agree with others that both Marte and Polanco do have their concerns (I think they will always have nagging injuries due to their style of play), we have flexibility to cover the OF and 1B with Meadows, Bell and Freese (and, hopefully, Joyce - I would put Freese's contract in front of him to see if he's interested).

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:45 pm

Joyce sure has struggled lately with more playing time. He is losing money.

SCBucco · Post by **SCBucco** » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:00 am

123E36313A1D2A3C2C5F0 wrote: Although watching Polanco's performance slide has been difficult, I too remain in the camp of trading Cutch this off-season and keeping Marte and Polanco. All three have been beset with nagging injuries at one point or another, but I attribute much of that to the rigors of a 162 game schedule and constant travel.

I value the defense that Marte would bring to CF, recognizing that the team's defensive performance in LF will drop substantially. My hope is that by mid-season Meadows can arrive to help out.

I prefer keeping Marte and Polanco over Cutch too.

I have a question to ask everyone. Washington is craving for a title. They wanted to collect talents. Should the Pirates be intrigued enough to call them and ask for Lucas Giolito and Trea Turner? Would that be intriguing enough? Maybe Washington has to add more, but ...

Then again, its the matter of the fO going out and using the remaining millions of dollars to improve the club more.