What is going on?

CarolinaBucco · Post by **CarolinaBucco** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:03 pm

It feels like the Pirates have no money, no desire to sign anyone of significance, and are actively trying to trade almost everyone.

Are things really this bleak? This depressing? Is this franchise even attempting to win in 2017?

SammyKhalifa · Post by **SammyKhalifa** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:18 pm

I agree too, and I'm not usually like that.

But worse still me is the feeling that it doesn't matter. None of it matters. No matter what we do--we could sign every single free agent--it won't make a difference because barring a fluke season it won't get us past the Cubs anyhow. And that is only going to get worse when they get their TV Deal/Network.

rucker59@gmail.com · Post by **rucker59@gmail.com** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:19 pm

That's the way I felt last winter - such a good team, so close, and it felt like the FO simply bailed out. I guess due to money. But last year's "effort" stunned me. This year, it seems like the FO is dropping hints that they are unable or unwilling to participate in the MLB world. The "budget is tight (already)" and "internal valuations" point to an organization that will be on the sidelines when it comes to building a contending team.

As someone else mentioned yesterday I think - "internal valuation" is a figment of the Pirates imagination; VALUE is determined by the market and if the Pirates undervalue every player relative to any other team the Pirates will never sign a player that another team wants.

It looks to me that the Pirates are totally dependent on the farm system. And this system will slowly be drained (which makes moving two top prospects as part of a salary dump all the more unacceptable) and I don't know what the options will be then.

Last winter I was stunned. This year I'm numb.

mouse · Post by **mouse** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:23 pm

All of those things are probably true, but there is another factor this year that enters in -- the CBA has the potential to change how teams approach the off-season. All trades have been slow (and usually are until the winter meetings). Teams are uncertain what to do until things like the luxury tax get resolved. If more fundamental changes occur (the DH in the National League being the obvious one), that will certainly affect the way teams are structured. Today is the 'deadline' for the CBA negotiation so we should know more tomorrow. But on the whole, I don't expect much on trade fronts until the winter meetings and thereafter for free agent signings.

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:30 pm

I don't really know what is going on either. I just hope it is early in the off season and moves are in the works. It isn't like other trades or big signings have happened for other teams either.

I really hope they aren't unloading the team. They just need another starter in my opinion. One that can be a top rotation guy and they have the talent to trade to get that guy.

Get some bullpen arms (plenty, don't need a big name), a starter and sign Mercer. That's the off season I expected.

I am even open for them to trade McCutchen assuming the return will be great and for major league talent. That Cespedes deal was unreal. McCutchen can easily get that type of money.

I wish I knew what was going on too. I think the Pirates are very close and can certainly compete. They just need a few more players like they do every year.

sdimmick3 · Post by **sdimmick3** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:01 pm

I don't know how you can believe anything about the Pirates rumors....one reporter says they never engaged with S-Rod, another says they tried trading J-Hay to start S-Rod....either way, very rarely do any rumors pop up about the Pirates that are true. Its usually a tight lipped thing and it can be frustrating.

Leyland1948 · Post by **Leyland1948** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:14 pm

If and when the winter meetings are over it will give you and idea of which direction this team is going to take.

SCBucco · Post by **SCBucco** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:27 pm

456C706568676D38303D31090 wrote: If and when the winter meetings are over it will give you and idea of which direction this team is going to take.

This is 100% correct. I have a bad feeling we won't like what's ahead as far as moves. Two years ago, we had 98 wins and added some late pieces to help try to win. They lost pieces in the offseason (Happ, Burnett) and failed miserably replacing them. They went cheap. Last year was a result of that. Yes, we had injuries and some struggled, but ... never carried on the momentum. So, now, this leads to 2017.

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:50 pm

I always thought the team was built for 2017.

Only player I expected to be with the team was Liriano and maybe Melancon. I expected Taillon to have a year under his belt and Bell too.

Now, I am not sure what they are doing. The team is still in place. They even have a nice bench in place. They just need a starter and some bullpen arms in my opinion.

SammyKhalifa · Post by **SammyKhalifa** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:06 pm

more like 2 or 3 starters