Trading McCutchen would be a betrayal by the Pirates . . .

[DemDog]

so writes Kevin Gorman in today's Tribune Review.



Looks likes he reads OBN! Hope Nutting reads it and takes it to heart. Not so much in my opinion with trading McCutchen but fulfilling his promise to spend and improve the team when it got turned around.

[Quail]

Good op-ed piece. Thanks for the link Possum!



I think many of us here can relate to this quote from the article:



"We deserve better than a bottom-line owner more concerned with making payroll than the playoffs, one whose words simply are lip service."

[Speedloader88]

I am very torn on the issue of trading McCuthen. I think that I have long been conditioned to be interested more or less in the Pirates trades than I am the game. Over the years since the early 1990's, all I had to keep me interested in the team was the comings and goings of which players. The on field product was always unworthy of my attention, but the hot stove became the point of interest because it always had false hope and promise of a brighter tomorrow. I am still conditioned this way! I have not really enjoyed the winning over the last few years because it has felt like an aberration not to be relied upon.



So, that is where I find myself. A passive viewer of their success with no real connection to it because it will be fleeting. I have signed back in here not to discuss their winning, but to see what is happening with the McCuthen, J-Hay trade. The idea of them being traded is exciting because maybe we'll get some new, exciting pieces that will make us a championship team. I know that this is a false belief and a lie, but that is where my emotional attachment to this team lies.

[Bobster21]

7B584D4D4C4447494C4D5A1010280 wrote: I am very torn on the issue of trading McCuthen.  I think that I have long been conditioned to be interested more or less in the Pirates trades than I am the game.  Over the years since the early 1990's, all I had to keep me interested in the team was the comings and goings of which players.  The on field product was always unworthy of my attention, but the hot stove became the point of interest because it always had false hope and promise of a brighter tomorrow.  I am still conditioned this way!  I have not really enjoyed the winning over the last few years because it has felt like an aberration not to be relied upon. 



So, that is where I find myself.  A passive viewer of their success with no real connection to it because it will be fleeting.  I have signed back in here not to discuss their winning, but to see what is happening with the McCuthen, J-Hay trade.  The idea of them being traded is exciting because maybe we'll get some new, exciting pieces that will make us a championship team.  I know that this is a false belief and a lie, but that is where my emotional attachment to this team lies.
Your post confirmed what I have suspected about many Pirate fans. And you worded it perfectly. I think that the 20 years of losing conditioned many fans to take more interest in personnel moves (because they provided hope) than in the product on the field (which often seemed hopeless). Even in these past few, far more competitive years, many posts on the board are about proposed ideas on what the Pirates should be able to get in exchange for various players; even key players. Because that's how many fans have been conditioned to evaluate the Pirates. And, unfortunately, last off season may have been the beginning of the end of the team's brief return to respectability as we now see them following an agenda to shed salary from an already low payroll instead of modestly increasing a low payroll to add key players for a more competitive team.

[mouse]

P2 has a free article today on trading Cutch, which is a pretty good read --



http://www.piratesprospects.com/2016/12 ... trade.html

[Tintin]

Meh.....

If we can improve the team in the future, I've got no problem dealing him.

He's a great baseball player and an even better person, so that will be missed, but at the end of the day, the Pirates are what is left, not individual players.



While I agree last off-season was less than stellar, so why use that as a reason the keep a player that you can use to improve the team going forward?



And if the offer isn't what we need it to be, then keeping him is OK as well.

[SammyKhalifa]

54696E74696E000 wrote: Meh.....

If we can improve the team in the future, I've got no problem dealing him.

He's a great baseball player and an even better person, so that will be missed, but at the end of the day, the Pirates are what is left, not individual players.



While I agree last off-season was less than stellar, so why use that as a reason the keep a player that you can use to improve the team going forward?



And if the offer isn't what we need it to be, then keeping him is OK as well.


I just am not sure you want to make a deal with a player coming off a bad season. We did that with Liriano and it seems like we're going to do that with Cutch too. The Melancon deal seems like a pretty good deal, but otherwise our last few moves involving major pieces have been big fat zeroes.



And McCutchen is different. If he retired now he could almost be considered among the Pirate All-Timers. I'd tread very carefully if I were NH and I'm sure he's thinking of that.

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

McCutchen having two years left at a reasonable price is a bonus. His value wouldn't be much higher next year with one year left.



I was listening to MLB Channel on Sirius Radio and many experts had that thinking too. It just comes down to what the other teams think of him.



It is hard to disagree with that article by Gorman too. Nutting has always said he will add payroll when the team is good. He actually did do that too and the results were a playoff team. I am having my doubts now after giving Nutting the benefit of the doubt and praising him to sticking to his word.

[SammyKhalifa]

53706565646C6F616465723838000 wrote: I am very torn on the issue of trading McCuthen.  I think that I have long been conditioned to be interested more or less in the Pirates trades than I am the game.  Over the years since the early 1990's, all I had to keep me interested in the team was the comings and goings of which players.  The on field product was always unworthy of my attention, but the hot stove became the point of interest because it always had false hope and promise of a brighter tomorrow.  I am still conditioned this way!  I have not really enjoyed the winning over the last few years because it has felt like an aberration not to be relied upon. 



So, that is where I find myself.  A passive viewer of their success with no real connection to it because it will be fleeting.  I have signed back in here not to discuss their winning, but to see what is happening with the McCuthen, J-Hay trade.  The idea of them being traded is exciting because maybe we'll get some new, exciting pieces that will make us a championship team.  I know that this is a false belief and a lie, but that is where my emotional attachment to this team lies.


I don't think that's a product of the Pirates success as much as it is with the fantasy baseball mentality along with how much incredibly easier it is to follow and know the minor league systems.

[Ecbucs]

I've got to say that I don't think it matters what the Pirates do. They are not going to win if the payroll doesn't go over 100 million.



If they can't get to 115 or 120 million in today's market then they will not win a pennant other than as a long shot.



they will not make the playoffs consistently, they may stay in contention and just fade at the end a few times but they will not be in the playoffs for several years in a row.



They will just be able to afford enough talent to offer some hope if everything goes right they will win. But they will not make the move to bring in the player or players that are needed to get over the hump.



With payroll apparently capped at 100 million they will just be shuffling around talent and hope to get lucky.