Vast majority of talk surrounding the rotation, rightfully, but the biggest surprise for me in 2016 was the ineffectiveness of our lineup. I absolutely loved the idea of a JHay, Cutch, Marte, Kang, Polanco (or Polanco then Kang).
I expected tons of contact, killer speed on the bases, and 120 HRs from these five. Basically none of this materialized.
Looks like they'll all be back- what can we expect in 2017? Does Bell add the power the Pirates need to replace Joyce and S-Rod? Can Kang stay healthy and out of trouble long enough to reach his potential (35/40!?)? Can Marte become a power hitter?
Cutch.... I always thought that a big part of his 2016 problems came out of Spring Training last year, where he was crushing HRs. I thought he came into April with an exaggerated swing trying to go deep, and he never found his rhythm.
I guess I'd like Cutch to drop back to 20 HRs with a lot more gap shots.
It looks pretty clear our lineup is pretty much set. Can they be better than last year?
What about the lineup?
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
What about the lineup?
I also thought Cutch came into the season trying to compensate for the power lost on Alvarez and Walker. Marte should have more power but I'll take his .300+ BA if he doesn't. But even Clemente had little power his first few years. Bell should be a huge improvement over Jaso's offense. I like the lineup. With the right pitching, this would be a great team.
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rucker59@gmail.com
What about the lineup?
496469787F6E79393A0B0 wrote: I also thought Cutch came into the season trying to compensate for the power lost on Alvarez and Walker. Marte should have more power but I'll take his .300+ BA if he doesn't. But even Clemente had little power his first few years. Bell should be a huge improvement over Jaso's offense. I like the lineup. With the right pitching, this would be a great team.
That's a strong endorsement of the lineup, but I agree with you. I think this can be a great lineup. This is not about pitching, but the potential of the lineup practically begs for a high-end addition to the rotation.
I don't think the Pirates are that far from contending with the Cubs, but it will take a commitment from the FO. It would be a shame to watch this lineup get buried by "average" pitching.
That's a strong endorsement of the lineup, but I agree with you. I think this can be a great lineup. This is not about pitching, but the potential of the lineup practically begs for a high-end addition to the rotation.
I don't think the Pirates are that far from contending with the Cubs, but it will take a commitment from the FO. It would be a shame to watch this lineup get buried by "average" pitching.
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Bobster21
What about the lineup?
6760767E7067202C557278747C793B767A78150 wrote: I also thought Cutch came into the season trying to compensate for the power lost on Alvarez and Walker. Marte should have more power but I'll take his .300+ BA if he doesn't. But even Clemente had little power his first few years. Bell should be a huge improvement over Jaso's offense. I like the lineup. With the right pitching, this would be a great team.
That's a strong endorsement of the lineup, but I agree with you. I think this can be a great lineup. This is not about pitching, but the potential of the lineup practically begs for a high-end addition to the rotation.
I don't think the Pirates are that far from contending with the Cubs, but it will take a commitment from the FO. It would be a shame to watch this lineup get buried by "average" pitching.
Sadly, this regime appears to have no interest in improving the team beyond that which can be accomplished on a shoestring budget.
That's a strong endorsement of the lineup, but I agree with you. I think this can be a great lineup. This is not about pitching, but the potential of the lineup practically begs for a high-end addition to the rotation.
I don't think the Pirates are that far from contending with the Cubs, but it will take a commitment from the FO. It would be a shame to watch this lineup get buried by "average" pitching.
Sadly, this regime appears to have no interest in improving the team beyond that which can be accomplished on a shoestring budget.
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rucker59@gmail.com
What about the lineup?
042924353223347477460 wrote: I also thought Cutch came into the season trying to compensate for the power lost on Alvarez and Walker. Marte should have more power but I'll take his .300+ BA if he doesn't. But even Clemente had little power his first few years. Bell should be a huge improvement over Jaso's offense. I like the lineup. With the right pitching, this would be a great team.
That's a strong endorsement of the lineup, but I agree with you. I think this can be a great lineup. This is not about pitching, but the potential of the lineup practically begs for a high-end addition to the rotation.
I don't think the Pirates are that far from contending with the Cubs, but it will take a commitment from the FO. It would be a shame to watch this lineup get buried by "average" pitching.
Sadly, this regime appears to have no interest in improving the team beyond that which can be accomplished on a shoestring budget.
Bingo - it seems the very success this FO has enjoyed is turning into its biggest curse. The fact they are doing nothing to finish this team exposes their agenda in a way I'm sure Mr Nutting could have never anticipated. But unless something dramatic and unexpected happens in the next three months, it is an obvious fact that ownership's agenda has been exposed.
It's weird to think, but if Neal had engineered an 88 win team and a WC everyone would probably still be ecstatic. It's because the team was truly very very good and the FO closed the door to further improvement that everything feels so hopeless.
It's not too late Bob - you've got a really good lineup. One of the best in baseball. Just a couple quality pitchers......
That's a strong endorsement of the lineup, but I agree with you. I think this can be a great lineup. This is not about pitching, but the potential of the lineup practically begs for a high-end addition to the rotation.
I don't think the Pirates are that far from contending with the Cubs, but it will take a commitment from the FO. It would be a shame to watch this lineup get buried by "average" pitching.
Sadly, this regime appears to have no interest in improving the team beyond that which can be accomplished on a shoestring budget.
Bingo - it seems the very success this FO has enjoyed is turning into its biggest curse. The fact they are doing nothing to finish this team exposes their agenda in a way I'm sure Mr Nutting could have never anticipated. But unless something dramatic and unexpected happens in the next three months, it is an obvious fact that ownership's agenda has been exposed.
It's weird to think, but if Neal had engineered an 88 win team and a WC everyone would probably still be ecstatic. It's because the team was truly very very good and the FO closed the door to further improvement that everything feels so hopeless.
It's not too late Bob - you've got a really good lineup. One of the best in baseball. Just a couple quality pitchers......
What about the lineup?
The Pirates lineup is good. Possibly very good if they get better offensive production from C, 1B and CF than they did last year, and I believe there's a reasonably good chance of that happening. Cervelli's hand injury should be healed, Bell should be a significant improvement over Jaso, and Cutch should rebound some even if not to his previous MVP level. There is also a decent chance that Polanco will have a better season as he continues to mature.
The frustrating thing about this lineup is that it will be wasted if no quality starting pitching is added to the Cole + unproven youngsters group or if the attempt to cobble together an effective bullpen without a proven closer fails. This is not at all unlike the 2016 Cincinnati Reds. Their lineup was a good productive one but they had mostly young pitching and a bit of a patchwork bullpen. They ended up with 68 wins.
The frustrating thing about this lineup is that it will be wasted if no quality starting pitching is added to the Cole + unproven youngsters group or if the attempt to cobble together an effective bullpen without a proven closer fails. This is not at all unlike the 2016 Cincinnati Reds. Their lineup was a good productive one but they had mostly young pitching and a bit of a patchwork bullpen. They ended up with 68 wins.
What about the lineup?
414650585641060A73545E525A5F1D505C5E330 wrote: I also thought Cutch came into the season trying to compensate for the power lost on Alvarez and Walker. Marte should have more power but I'll take his .300+ BA if he doesn't. But even Clemente had little power his first few years. Bell should be a huge improvement over Jaso's offense. I like the lineup. With the right pitching, this would be a great team.
That's a strong endorsement of the lineup, but I agree with you. I think this can be a great lineup. This is not about pitching, but the potential of the lineup practically begs for a high-end addition to the rotation.
I don't think the Pirates are that far from contending with the Cubs, but it will take a commitment from the FO. It would be a shame to watch this lineup get buried by "average" pitching.
The lineup could be good, if everyone does what its supposed to be. However, we are far away from the Cubs.
Why we aren't close ...
Who would you rather have ...
Arrieta, Hendricks, Lester and Wade Davis closing
or
Cole, Taillon, ??? and Tony Watson closing
There is zero commitment here to put out a quality product. I'm not sure we have average pitching.
That's a strong endorsement of the lineup, but I agree with you. I think this can be a great lineup. This is not about pitching, but the potential of the lineup practically begs for a high-end addition to the rotation.
I don't think the Pirates are that far from contending with the Cubs, but it will take a commitment from the FO. It would be a shame to watch this lineup get buried by "average" pitching.
The lineup could be good, if everyone does what its supposed to be. However, we are far away from the Cubs.
Why we aren't close ...
Who would you rather have ...
Arrieta, Hendricks, Lester and Wade Davis closing
or
Cole, Taillon, ??? and Tony Watson closing
There is zero commitment here to put out a quality product. I'm not sure we have average pitching.
What about the lineup?
6373724553535F300 wrote: I also thought Cutch came into the season trying to compensate for the power lost on Alvarez and Walker. Marte should have more power but I'll take his .300+ BA if he doesn't. But even Clemente had little power his first few years. Bell should be a huge improvement over Jaso's offense. I like the lineup. With the right pitching, this would be a great team.
That's a strong endorsement of the lineup, but I agree with you. I think this can be a great lineup. This is not about pitching, but the potential of the lineup practically begs for a high-end addition to the rotation.
I don't think the Pirates are that far from contending with the Cubs, but it will take a commitment from the FO. It would be a shame to watch this lineup get buried by "average" pitching.
The lineup could be good, if everyone does what its supposed to be. However, we are far away from the Cubs.
Why we aren't close ...
Who would you rather have ...
Arrieta, Hendricks, Lester and Wade Davis closing
or
Cole, Taillon, ??? and Tony Watson closing
There is zero commitment here to put out a quality product. I'm not sure we have average pitching.
Most of baseball would say the same thing about their first 3 pitchers and closer compared to the Cubs. What's the point of this? They Cubs also paid nearly $200 million for a guy that wound up sitting the bench as they won a world series. They have money that the Pirates and most of MLB doesn't have. Apparently most teams in MLB have zero commitment to putting out a quality product.
That's a strong endorsement of the lineup, but I agree with you. I think this can be a great lineup. This is not about pitching, but the potential of the lineup practically begs for a high-end addition to the rotation.
I don't think the Pirates are that far from contending with the Cubs, but it will take a commitment from the FO. It would be a shame to watch this lineup get buried by "average" pitching.
The lineup could be good, if everyone does what its supposed to be. However, we are far away from the Cubs.
Why we aren't close ...
Who would you rather have ...
Arrieta, Hendricks, Lester and Wade Davis closing
or
Cole, Taillon, ??? and Tony Watson closing
There is zero commitment here to put out a quality product. I'm not sure we have average pitching.
Most of baseball would say the same thing about their first 3 pitchers and closer compared to the Cubs. What's the point of this? They Cubs also paid nearly $200 million for a guy that wound up sitting the bench as they won a world series. They have money that the Pirates and most of MLB doesn't have. Apparently most teams in MLB have zero commitment to putting out a quality product.
What about the lineup?
The Pirates get a bit of a bum rap here. NH really built a great team and it played well. 98 wins is a lot, and it was done within the confines of a tight budget. Who could have predicted they would have the misfortune to end up in the division with a collection of the best teams in baseball? They would have won any other division and had a good shot to win the World Series. The heart of that team will be around for a bit yet (but getting more expensive by the year), and their pitching is coming on, so the hope is there. Enjoy this shot. The odds are against any team. Look at the Braves - they won their division something like 14 or 15 years in a row and have one world series win to show for it. All a team can hope for, all a GM can try for, is to be there at the end with a shot. [NOTE - I am old and am doing this from memory, so my facts may be loose, but the idea isn't.]
But if you want to be depressed, check out the bucsdugout.com article today on the state of the lower minors.
But if you want to be depressed, check out the bucsdugout.com article today on the state of the lower minors.
What about the lineup?
The lineup should be very good. If Kang is available, having him in the lineup for a full season should be a boost. Bell will provide much more offense from 1b than we got last year. Cervelli should rebound some. I like his high .OBP. I believe 22 will be fine, as mentioned before maybe not MVP caliber anymore but well above average. Marte didn't show much power but I won't argue with a .300 average and tons of steals. Polanco is the wildcard for this bunch. If he reaches his ceiling this offense goes from good to great IMO.