I think Freese and Harrison (and Cole for that matter) are basically right. Ownership has let down the team, and the city in their management choices over the past few years. Through sheer neglect, a team that looked like a perennial contender just a few years ago now looks poised on the edge of another long drought.
But let's say this 2018 team actually has a .500 season in them somewhere, and this could be another 1997. Could the chemistry be so bad right now that it couldn't happen? I'm not saying the veterans shouldn't speak their minds, but what is the impact of those speeches on Bell, Taillon, etc?
Can a team pull together if the veterans are this grumpy?
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Can a team pull together if the veterans are this grumpy?
I don't think the speeches will have any impact on Taillon, Bell and anybody who was with the team the past couple years.
Most likely they felt the same way to some extent.
Most likely they felt the same way to some extent.
Can a team pull together if the veterans are this grumpy?
I now view Freese as the player who has emerged as the de-facto leader of this team.
Leaders fulfill any number of roles. They inspire and encourage others by how they conduct themselves. And, they give others protection to 'quietly' agree when the leader steps forward and says what needs to be said.
In short, there is no need for Bell, Tallion or any other of the younger players to do what Freese did. In my opinion, what does need to happen is that Hurdle needs to build on Freese's comments and to help re-instill a winning attitude on this team. For example, sit Polanco or Marte for a game if either nonchalantly chases down a ball in the gap allowing a runner to take an extra base. Errors happen and can be tolerated, but the team cannot tolerate a player failing to hustle and to show that they care.
Further, this attitude could be the players rallying together to play against the attitude inculcated by management, even though that would mean that management would be a beneficiary of their better play and try to tout that management's plan is succeeding.
So, if by some miracle the team actually plays much better than everyone (anyone) has a right to expect or dream, then someone like Freese and even Hurdle needs to step forward come early July and state that it is now management's responsibility to build on the play and character that the team has shown and to help provide the talent that would be needed to actually allow them to compete. For example, the Astros (and no I am not comparing this team to the Stros) going and getting Verlander around the deadline last year.
There is a lot of blame to go around for the past 2 years. The owner, the GM, the Manager, and the players all share some of the blame. The question is who will be the first to step forward to make changes. Based on too much recent experience, it won't be the Owner or GM, so it has to fall onto the shoulders of Hurdle, the coaching staff and the players, both individually and collectively. Doubt that we will see it, but it sure would be great to think that every player is playing their heart out every game, and that the manager is really in it to win it rather than simply mouthing the words.
Leaders fulfill any number of roles. They inspire and encourage others by how they conduct themselves. And, they give others protection to 'quietly' agree when the leader steps forward and says what needs to be said.
In short, there is no need for Bell, Tallion or any other of the younger players to do what Freese did. In my opinion, what does need to happen is that Hurdle needs to build on Freese's comments and to help re-instill a winning attitude on this team. For example, sit Polanco or Marte for a game if either nonchalantly chases down a ball in the gap allowing a runner to take an extra base. Errors happen and can be tolerated, but the team cannot tolerate a player failing to hustle and to show that they care.
Further, this attitude could be the players rallying together to play against the attitude inculcated by management, even though that would mean that management would be a beneficiary of their better play and try to tout that management's plan is succeeding.
So, if by some miracle the team actually plays much better than everyone (anyone) has a right to expect or dream, then someone like Freese and even Hurdle needs to step forward come early July and state that it is now management's responsibility to build on the play and character that the team has shown and to help provide the talent that would be needed to actually allow them to compete. For example, the Astros (and no I am not comparing this team to the Stros) going and getting Verlander around the deadline last year.
There is a lot of blame to go around for the past 2 years. The owner, the GM, the Manager, and the players all share some of the blame. The question is who will be the first to step forward to make changes. Based on too much recent experience, it won't be the Owner or GM, so it has to fall onto the shoulders of Hurdle, the coaching staff and the players, both individually and collectively. Doubt that we will see it, but it sure would be great to think that every player is playing their heart out every game, and that the manager is really in it to win it rather than simply mouthing the words.
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Bobster21
Can a team pull together if the veterans are this grumpy?
08242C2B2007302636450 wrote: I now view Freese as the player who has emerged as the de-facto leader of this team.
Leaders fulfill any number of roles. They inspire and encourage others by how they conduct themselves. And, they give others protection to 'quietly' agree when the leader steps forward and says what needs to be said.
In short, there is no need for Bell, Tallion or any other of the younger players to do what Freese did. In my opinion, what does need to happen is that Hurdle needs to build on Freese's comments and to help re-instill a winning attitude on this team. For example, sit Polanco or Marte for a game if either nonchalantly chases down a ball in the gap allowing a runner to take an extra base. Errors happen and can be tolerated, but the team cannot tolerate a player failing to hustle and to show that they care.
Further, this attitude could be the players rallying together to play against the attitude inculcated by management, even though that would mean that management would be a beneficiary of their better play and try to tout that management's plan is succeeding.
So, if by some miracle the team actually plays much better than everyone (anyone) has a right to expect or dream, then someone like Freese and even Hurdle needs to step forward come early July and state that it is now management's responsibility to build on the play and character that the team has shown and to help provide the talent that would be needed to actually allow them to compete. For example, the Astros (and no I am not comparing this team to the Stros) going and getting Verlander around the deadline last year.
There is a lot of blame to go around for the past 2 years. The owner, the GM, the Manager, and the players all share some of the blame. The question is who will be the first to step forward to make changes. Based on too much recent experience, it won't be the Owner or GM, so it has to fall onto the shoulders of Hurdle, the coaching staff and the players, both individually and collectively. Doubt that we will see it, but it sure would be great to think that every player is playing their heart out every game, and that the manager is really in it to win it rather than simply mouthing the words.
Another thing Hurdle can do is that when they have a seemingly significant game against a team they are either trying to catch or trying to stay ahead of, don't rest his top player(s) because they have the next day off and a "scheduled off day" is more important than trying to win. That has to send a message to the team and, as Freese said, there just didn't seem to be any emphasis on winning.
Leaders fulfill any number of roles. They inspire and encourage others by how they conduct themselves. And, they give others protection to 'quietly' agree when the leader steps forward and says what needs to be said.
In short, there is no need for Bell, Tallion or any other of the younger players to do what Freese did. In my opinion, what does need to happen is that Hurdle needs to build on Freese's comments and to help re-instill a winning attitude on this team. For example, sit Polanco or Marte for a game if either nonchalantly chases down a ball in the gap allowing a runner to take an extra base. Errors happen and can be tolerated, but the team cannot tolerate a player failing to hustle and to show that they care.
Further, this attitude could be the players rallying together to play against the attitude inculcated by management, even though that would mean that management would be a beneficiary of their better play and try to tout that management's plan is succeeding.
So, if by some miracle the team actually plays much better than everyone (anyone) has a right to expect or dream, then someone like Freese and even Hurdle needs to step forward come early July and state that it is now management's responsibility to build on the play and character that the team has shown and to help provide the talent that would be needed to actually allow them to compete. For example, the Astros (and no I am not comparing this team to the Stros) going and getting Verlander around the deadline last year.
There is a lot of blame to go around for the past 2 years. The owner, the GM, the Manager, and the players all share some of the blame. The question is who will be the first to step forward to make changes. Based on too much recent experience, it won't be the Owner or GM, so it has to fall onto the shoulders of Hurdle, the coaching staff and the players, both individually and collectively. Doubt that we will see it, but it sure would be great to think that every player is playing their heart out every game, and that the manager is really in it to win it rather than simply mouthing the words.
Another thing Hurdle can do is that when they have a seemingly significant game against a team they are either trying to catch or trying to stay ahead of, don't rest his top player(s) because they have the next day off and a "scheduled off day" is more important than trying to win. That has to send a message to the team and, as Freese said, there just didn't seem to be any emphasis on winning.
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SteadyFreddy
Can a team pull together if the veterans are this grumpy?
Hurdle talks about winning a championship but he doesn’t do the neccessary things during the season to put his team in the best position to win games. I agree with you Bobster the giving guys days off in critical games and against division opponents when you can win a Series has got to stop. Guys like Freese and Harrison I think are really tired of it.
Can a team pull together if the veterans are this grumpy?
17302125203D02362120203D440 wrote: Hurdle talks about winning a championship but he doesn’t do the neccessary things during the season to put his team in the best position to win games. I agree with you Bobster the giving guys days off in critical games and against division opponents when you can win a Series has got to stop. Guys like Freese and Harrison I think are really tired of it.
But, Nutting and NH talk about fielding a competitive team and they have not shown anything to suggest that will happen. Why only bag on Hurdle?
But, Nutting and NH talk about fielding a competitive team and they have not shown anything to suggest that will happen. Why only bag on Hurdle?
Can a team pull together if the veterans are this grumpy?
71757D4A5C4C795E513F0 wrote: I think Freese and Harrison (and Cole for that matter) are basically right. Ownership has let down the team, and the city in their management choices over the past few years. Through sheer neglect, a team that looked like a perennial contender just a few years ago now looks poised on the edge of another long drought.
But let's say this 2018 team actually has a .500 season in them somewhere, and this could be another 1997. Could the chemistry be so bad right now that it couldn't happen? I'm not saying the veterans shouldn't speak their minds, but what is the impact of those speeches on Bell, Taillon, etc?
Won't have any impact on Bell or Taillon IMO. This roster is so terribly young. There are more guys younger than 25 on the roster than older, it seems.
However, there is a problem in this organization. I have to admit, the body language of a few vets last year weren't the greatest. Some sulked. I do believe that the attitude in the room is driven by the lack of quality moves by management. You can only tread water for so long in rough seas before drowning. You see the moves by the other teams as compared to our's, the team morale won't be good, nor should it if you are parading around saying you will be fielding a competitive team, which means one that will be fighting for a PO spot.
But let's say this 2018 team actually has a .500 season in them somewhere, and this could be another 1997. Could the chemistry be so bad right now that it couldn't happen? I'm not saying the veterans shouldn't speak their minds, but what is the impact of those speeches on Bell, Taillon, etc?
Won't have any impact on Bell or Taillon IMO. This roster is so terribly young. There are more guys younger than 25 on the roster than older, it seems.
However, there is a problem in this organization. I have to admit, the body language of a few vets last year weren't the greatest. Some sulked. I do believe that the attitude in the room is driven by the lack of quality moves by management. You can only tread water for so long in rough seas before drowning. You see the moves by the other teams as compared to our's, the team morale won't be good, nor should it if you are parading around saying you will be fielding a competitive team, which means one that will be fighting for a PO spot.
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Bobster21
Can a team pull together if the veterans are this grumpy?
3020211600000C630 wrote: Hurdle talks about winning a championship but he doesn’t do the neccessary things during the season to put his team in the best position to win games. I agree with you Bobster the giving guys days off in critical games and against division opponents when you can win a Series has got to stop. Guys like Freese and Harrison I think are really tired of it.
But, Nutting and NH talk about fielding a competitive team and they have not shown anything to suggest that will happen. Why only bag on Hurdle?
I cited Hurdle as an example of a lack of emphasis on winning (which Freddy agreed with). It's not at all the only, or even the main, reason. Nutting and NH have certainly received their fair share of criticism. They don't give Hurdle a lot to work with. But he has to share the blame as well for his counterproductive decisions. I didn't think it was necessary to rehash what's already been said many times about Nutting and NH.
But, Nutting and NH talk about fielding a competitive team and they have not shown anything to suggest that will happen. Why only bag on Hurdle?
I cited Hurdle as an example of a lack of emphasis on winning (which Freddy agreed with). It's not at all the only, or even the main, reason. Nutting and NH have certainly received their fair share of criticism. They don't give Hurdle a lot to work with. But he has to share the blame as well for his counterproductive decisions. I didn't think it was necessary to rehash what's already been said many times about Nutting and NH.
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DemDog
Can a team pull together if the veterans are this grumpy?
Freese and JHay have said their thing and have set themselves up as either team leaders or just a couple of cranky cry babies. I would hope that it is the former.
As team leaders they need to not just speak words but need to lead by example. They also need to let any man on the team that unprofessional play including apathy toward make the right plays, the basic plays will cost them and the team in terms of wins and pride.
They need a kangaroo court and if necessary need to communicate to Hurdle that how he is running things will not make for a winner or teach the kids how to win.
They also need to encourage the kids to work hard and become not just a team but a community of MLB players in the Burgh.
I am very interested to see just how your question turns out. Thanks for asking it.
As team leaders they need to not just speak words but need to lead by example. They also need to let any man on the team that unprofessional play including apathy toward make the right plays, the basic plays will cost them and the team in terms of wins and pride.
They need a kangaroo court and if necessary need to communicate to Hurdle that how he is running things will not make for a winner or teach the kids how to win.
They also need to encourage the kids to work hard and become not just a team but a community of MLB players in the Burgh.
I am very interested to see just how your question turns out. Thanks for asking it.
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fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3488
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
Can a team pull together if the veterans are this grumpy?
With the comments from Freese and Harrison this weekend I wonder if Nutting will address the team this coming week like he has done in previous seasons. If he does I would like to be a fly on the wall to see the expressions on the players faces.