Cruz and Contreras…

SteadyFreddy · Post by **SteadyFreddy** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:31 am

Should both be in the starting lineup and in the starting rotation come April next season. The Pirates really have nobody better right now on both the pitching staff and position player wise to justify not doing so. Let them start the season with the big club and roll with it . Having both of them on the roster will make them a much better team to start 2022.

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:58 am

05223337322F10243332322F560 wrote: Should both be in the starting lineup and in the starting rotation come April next season. The Pirates really have nobody better right now on both the pitching staff and position player wise to justify not doing so. Let them start the season with the big club and roll with it . Having both of them on the roster will make them a much better team to start 2022.
I disagree. Although they might already be good enough to be an improvement of what the Pirates could otherwise have to open the season, both have almost no AAA experience and throwing them to the wolves at the MLB level might prevent them from maximizing their ability. I would start them at AAA at least for about 2 months and then bring them up if they are doing well.

GreenWeenie · Post by **GreenWeenie** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:21 am

I suppose that Trades and maybe a Bargain Pick Up are both out of the question anymore.

I'm with Bob on this. Both have made nice first impressions. I can see spots during 2022, but, I'm not sure that even a superior ST would warrant an Opening Day spot. That might be an exaggeration.

The RS is big time. At least, it's supposed to be.

They're high on the list though. I'd support Cherington. If he says that they're ready, then they're ready.

Surgnbuck · Post by **Surgnbuck** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:29 am

Contreras is a solid no with me. Even if he has a remarkable ST, let's see him do that for at least a dozen or so starts against AAA competition. By then the hot hitters who will never get hot again have fizzled, and the real prospects will start showing their mettle, and we'll see how he stacks up.

Cruz, I'm not even sure if they know what position he should play. I only saw him two games, but what I saw of him at shortstop didn't look too smooth. But that being said, if he had an amazing ST, I'd be more inclined to roll with him on the big club.

I'm with GW, when BC feels they're ready, I'm good with his decision, even if that means 2023.

GreenWeenie · Post by **GreenWeenie** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:36 am

I bet Doc Andrews wants Contreras up on Opening Day. (Humor in questionable taste.)

SteadyFreddy · Post by **SteadyFreddy** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:08 am

Contreras I don’t know on second thought I probably wouldn’t rush him right away but Cruz is a no brainer for me. There are no current position players at the moment that are better then Cruz enough for him to not be in the starting 8. This team is probably gonna stink just as badly next season so why not give some of these young guys who are ready to play everyday like Cruz a shot right at the start of the season. They will be better for it I believe in the long run and hopefully it will show when the team starts to turn the corner in 2023.

rucker59@gmail.com · Post by **rucker59@gmail.com** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:53 am

Freddy, you’re going to get your wish but a couple months later than you are hoping for.

For me, Contreras looked much more polished than Cruz. But three innings of high 90s is very different than 6 innings. He deserves some AAA starts to work on the million things he needs to perfect.

Cruz is raw. I could feel that he was going to hit a HR during his two games of opportunity just like I can feel he’s going to hit many many HRs as a pirate. But at the plate I also saw him totally overwhelmed on a few pitches. He will probably spend most of next season in AAA.

But we got a taste of what’s ahead. By this time next year we will be talking about what pieces need to be added to complete the 2023 team - who are the prospects that will be ready, what FAs need to be added.

2drfischer@gmail.c · Post by **2drfischer@gmail.c** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:14 am

6B4C5D595C417E4A5D5C5C41380 wrote: Should both be in the starting lineup and in the starting rotation come April next season. The Pirates really have nobody better right now on both the pitching staff and position player wise to justify not doing so. Let them start the season with the big club and roll with it . Having both of them on the roster will make them a much better team to start 2022.

While I'm excited to see both Contreras and Cruz, along with about a dozen others, get to Pittsburgh as soon as possible, I'd be surprised if either of the two are here on Opening Day. I can see the 2022 roster starting out much like this year's, then slowly being changed as the season progresses to include the young talent in the minors.

SteadyFreddy · Post by **SteadyFreddy** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:52 am

7374626A6473343841666C60686D2F626E6C010 wrote: Freddy, you’re going to get your wish but a couple months later than you are hoping for.

For me, Contreras looked much more polished than Cruz. But three innings of high 90s is very different than 6 innings. He deserves some AAA starts to work on the million things he needs to perfect.

Cruz is raw. I could feel that he was going to hit a HR during his two games of opportunity just like I can feel he’s going to hit many many HRs as a pirate. But at the plate I also saw him totally overwhelmed on a few pitches. He will probably spend most of next season in AAA.

But we got a taste of what’s ahead. By this time next year we will be talking about what pieces need to be added to complete the 2023 team - who are the prospects that will be ready, what FAs need to be added.

I’m hoping by the end of the season guys like Cruz, Nick Gonzales, Puguero, and Mason Martin just to name a few and there are other guys as well but either all are up here or being talked about being in the 2023 starting lineup on opening day. Something is seriously wrong if we are not. Also, hopefully Contreras and Priester just to name a few of the young pitching prospects are being talked about being in the starting rotation to start 2023. Like you talked about as well VA they have to go out and sign some free agents as well and spend some damn money to add to help these young prospects and help guys like Reynolds and Hayes as well. Next season should be the last season that losing anywhere between 90-100 is even remotely acceptable. Things need to turn and turn a lot come 2023.

2drfischer@gmail.c · Post by **2drfischer@gmail.c** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:01 am

31160703061B24100706061B620 wrote: Freddy, you’re going to get your wish but a couple months later than you are hoping for.

For me, Contreras looked much more polished than Cruz. But three innings of high 90s is very different than 6 innings. He deserves some AAA starts to work on the million things he needs to perfect.

Cruz is raw. I could feel that he was going to hit a HR during his two games of opportunity just like I can feel he’s going to hit many many HRs as a pirate. But at the plate I also saw him totally overwhelmed on a few pitches. He will probably spend most of next season in AAA.

But we got a taste of what’s ahead. By this time next year we will be talking about what pieces need to be added to complete the 2023 team - who are the prospects that will be ready, what FAs need to be added.

I’m hoping by the end of the season guys like Cruz, Nick Gonzales, Puguero, and Mason Martin just to name a few and there are other guys as well but either all are up here or being talked about being in the 2023 starting lineup on opening day. Something is seriously wrong if we are not. Also, hopefully Contreras and Priester just to name a few of the young pitching prospects are being talked about being in the starting rotation to start 2023. Like you talked about as well VA [highlight]they have to go out and sign some free agents[/highlight] as well and spend some damn money to add to help these young prospects and help guys like Reynolds and Hayes as well. Next season should be the last season that losing anywhere between 90-100 is even remotely acceptable. Things need to turn and turn a lot come 2023.

Agreed. I think it's imperative that veterans are brought in to help the young guys, to teach them what coaches can't about how to succeed and deal with failure during a major league season. So, yes, spending money for a few of those free agents will serve more than one purpose.