OnlyBucs

3D3A2C242A3D7A760F28222E2623612C20224F0 wrote: The  comment about drafting, developing, trading etc is the way to improve a last place team, is spot on. That is what Ben Cherington and his group are doing, and I have said it more than once [highlight]he would not have come to Pittsburgh if he did not receive assurances that when the time comes he will add pieces for the organization to contend for the postseason.[/highlight]




I wouldn't be surprised that BC received those assurances.  I also wouldn't be surprised if Nutting didn't carry through with them.  Is there anything that you've seen from Nutting since he gained control of the franchise that would suggest he would honor his promise?  Me neither.
You are so right about the way that Bob Nutting has run this franchise. Notwithstanding, I either read, or heard that after the 2019 season the Nutting family, possibly Mr. Nutting , was not pleased how the media and fans were writing and talking negatively towards the family. I may be in the minority, but I think the current management group including Travis Williams, as well as BC group have been given the directive to right the organization. I might be wrong, but I am going to continue to remain positive with the current Management Group.


Agreed.  I’ll go further - the current management team is doing an excellent job establishing a foundation to build a team.  It or may not be successful, but they are working a plan which is not only realistic but the ONLY realistic plan that has a chance to succeed. 



And count me as one that has grown weary of the same posts over and over by a few.  I’ve been off the board for two-three weeks as a result. 



Go kick your cans down some other lane.  Sheeze.



Oh, and I can’t wait to see what this self appointed expert panel is going to bring to the rest of our lives.  Oh boy.   



Maybe the mods can assign numbers 1, 2 and 3 to those posters who say the same three things over in every thread. 



Sorry for my surly attitude.  But most of this isn’t baseball talk, it’s a private bi!ch session carried out in public. 



(To be clean, I am not referring to Utah’s venting; he was actually offering ways forward).


Thanks for writing this VA.  It's spot on for me.  We bought the minor league tv package this year and have had a really good time watching some great baseball at the minor league levels.  I have had a hard time being interested in the Pirates because these guys aren't going to be the ones who are on the team when they make the playoffs.  I haven't read much on this board since the season began because it is largely the same stuff every day.  I check it out, see that it's SSDD and leave for a month or two.  I hope Bobster is right moving forward.



And I would further say that I appreciate the overwhelmingly negative perspective.  I'm not there, but it leads to good banter.  But it's annoying when it turns to the same talking points all of the time.  This franchise is in a fascinating place.  The big league team is terrible, but they have really built something in the minors.  This is what they did 10 years ago.  Though from some posters, you'd think they were about to step into their 30th year of losing.


Thanks for posting this PMike. You are so correct about what the Pirates have built in the minor league. The major league team is going to be very exciting in two years. Some of the high end prospects will arrive in mid 2022, which will make that team interesting down the stretch. I don’t give a darn about giving a team a point or two when they make some offseason signing or acquisition.  Who cares! Most of the time that just causes more negative posts against the Pirates because they did not sign some particular player. Enjoy the offseason, if the Bucs make a trade or a signing we make our comments either positive or negative. The Pirates will have an interesting offseason beginning with the makeup of the 40 man winter roster. The biggest offseason move is whether the Owners and Players can agree on a new Labor Agreement, and if it contains changes regarding free agency, arbitration, expanding playoffs, the DH, as well as maybe a salary floor. Come Monday let’s enjoy the offseason.


Amen and Amen.

It’s fair to disagree with BC approach, but all of the BS that doesn’t even try to consider what he’s done so far is completely unfair and agenda driven.



What’s really interesting to me is that Ben started with very little to even flip. 



Despite The perpetual personal agendas, the next two years are going to be a whirlwind. About 2023 There is every reason to anticipate meaningful baseball and it looks good for many years after that. Plenty to speak about this off-season and it’s actually about baseball.
Can you tell me how you purchased the Minor League Baseball package

0A3431392A323239193C2B386F5D0 wrote: The  comment about drafting, developing, trading etc is the way to improve a last place team, is spot on. That is what Ben Cherington and his group are doing, and I have said it more than once [highlight]he would not have come to Pittsburgh if he did not receive assurances that when the time comes he will add pieces for the organization to contend for the postseason.[/highlight]




I wouldn't be surprised that BC received those assurances.  I also wouldn't be surprised if Nutting didn't carry through with them.  Is there anything that you've seen from Nutting since he gained control of the franchise that would suggest he would honor his promise?  Me neither.
You are so right about the way that Bob Nutting has run this franchise. Notwithstanding, I either read, or heard that after the 2019 season the Nutting family, possibly Mr. Nutting , was not pleased how the media and fans were writing and talking negatively towards the family. I may be in the minority, but I think the current management group including Travis Williams, as well as BC group have been given the directive to right the organization. I might be wrong, but I am going to continue to remain positive with the current Management Group.


Agreed.  I’ll go further - the current management team is doing an excellent job establishing a foundation to build a team.  It or may not be successful, but they are working a plan which is not only realistic but the ONLY realistic plan that has a chance to succeed. 



And count me as one that has grown weary of the same posts over and over by a few.  I’ve been off the board for two-three weeks as a result. 



Go kick your cans down some other lane.  Sheeze.



Oh, and I can’t wait to see what this self appointed expert panel is going to bring to the rest of our lives.  Oh boy.   



Maybe the mods can assign numbers 1, 2 and 3 to those posters who say the same three things over in every thread. 



Sorry for my surly attitude.  But most of this isn’t baseball talk, it’s a private bi!ch session carried out in public. 



(To be clean, I am not referring to Utah’s venting; he was actually offering ways forward).


Thanks for writing this VA.  It's spot on for me.  We bought the minor league tv package this year and have had a really good time watching some great baseball at the minor league levels.  I have had a hard time being interested in the Pirates because these guys aren't going to be the ones who are on the team when they make the playoffs.  I haven't read much on this board since the season began because it is largely the same stuff every day.  I check it out, see that it's SSDD and leave for a month or two.  I hope Bobster is right moving forward.



And I would further say that I appreciate the overwhelmingly negative perspective.  I'm not there, but it leads to good banter.  But it's annoying when it turns to the same talking points all of the time.  This franchise is in a fascinating place.  The big league team is terrible, but they have really built something in the minors.  This is what they did 10 years ago.  Though from some posters, you'd think they were about to step into their 30th year of losing.


Thanks for posting this PMike. You are so correct about what the Pirates have built in the minor league. The major league team is going to be very exciting in two years. Some of the high end prospects will arrive in mid 2022, which will make that team interesting down the stretch. I don’t give a darn about giving a team a point or two when they make some offseason signing or acquisition.  Who cares! Most of the time that just causes more negative posts against the Pirates because they did not sign some particular player. Enjoy the offseason, if the Bucs make a trade or a signing we make our comments either positive or negative. The Pirates will have an interesting offseason beginning with the makeup of the 40 man winter roster. The biggest offseason move is whether the Owners and Players can agree on a new Labor Agreement, and if it contains changes regarding free agency, arbitration, expanding playoffs, the DH, as well as maybe a salary floor. Come Monday let’s enjoy the offseason.


Amen and Amen.

It’s fair to disagree with BC approach, but all of the BS that doesn’t even try to consider what he’s done so far is completely unfair and agenda driven.



What’s really interesting to me is that Ben started with very little to even flip. 



Despite The perpetual personal agendas, the next two years are going to be a whirlwind. About 2023 There is every reason to anticipate meaningful baseball and it looks good for many years after that. Plenty to speak about this off-season and it’s actually about baseball.
Can you tell me how you purchased the Minor League Baseball package


I think I bought it through the app on the Apple store, but there are probably multiple ways to make the purchase.



https://www.milb.com/live-stream-games

1F0226242A4F0 wrote: The  comment about drafting, developing, trading etc is the way to improve a last place team, is spot on. That is what Ben Cherington and his group are doing, and I have said it more than once [highlight]he would not have come to Pittsburgh if he did not receive assurances that when the time comes he will add pieces for the organization to contend for the postseason.[/highlight]




I wouldn't be surprised that BC received those assurances.  I also wouldn't be surprised if Nutting didn't carry through with them.  Is there anything that you've seen from Nutting since he gained control of the franchise that would suggest he would honor his promise?  Me neither.
You are so right about the way that Bob Nutting has run this franchise. Notwithstanding, I either read, or heard that after the 2019 season the Nutting family, possibly Mr. Nutting , was not pleased how the media and fans were writing and talking negatively towards the family. I may be in the minority, but I think the current management group including Travis Williams, as well as BC group have been given the directive to right the organization. I might be wrong, but I am going to continue to remain positive with the current Management Group.


Agreed.  I’ll go further - the current management team is doing an excellent job establishing a foundation to build a team.  It or may not be successful, but they are working a plan which is not only realistic but the ONLY realistic plan that has a chance to succeed. 



And count me as one that has grown weary of the same posts over and over by a few.  I’ve been off the board for two-three weeks as a result. 



Go kick your cans down some other lane.  Sheeze.



Oh, and I can’t wait to see what this self appointed expert panel is going to bring to the rest of our lives.  Oh boy.   



Maybe the mods can assign numbers 1, 2 and 3 to those posters who say the same three things over in every thread. 



Sorry for my surly attitude.  But most of this isn’t baseball talk, it’s a private bi!ch session carried out in public. 



(To be clean, I am not referring to Utah’s venting; he was actually offering ways forward).


Thanks for writing this VA.  It's spot on for me.  We bought the minor league tv package this year and have had a really good time watching some great baseball at the minor league levels.  I have had a hard time being interested in the Pirates because these guys aren't going to be the ones who are on the team when they make the playoffs.  I haven't read much on this board since the season began because it is largely the same stuff every day.  I check it out, see that it's SSDD and leave for a month or two.  I hope Bobster is right moving forward.



And I would further say that I appreciate the overwhelmingly negative perspective.  I'm not there, but it leads to good banter.  But it's annoying when it turns to the same talking points all of the time.  This franchise is in a fascinating place.  The big league team is terrible, but they have really built something in the minors.  This is what they did 10 years ago.  Though from some posters, you'd think they were about to step into their 30th year of losing.


Thanks for posting this PMike. You are so correct about what the Pirates have built in the minor league. The major league team is going to be very exciting in two years. Some of the high end prospects will arrive in mid 2022, which will make that team interesting down the stretch. I don’t give a darn about giving a team a point or two when they make some offseason signing or acquisition.  Who cares! Most of the time that just causes more negative posts against the Pirates because they did not sign some particular player. Enjoy the offseason, if the Bucs make a trade or a signing we make our comments either positive or negative. The Pirates will have an interesting offseason beginning with the makeup of the 40 man winter roster. The biggest offseason move is whether the Owners and Players can agree on a new Labor Agreement, and if it contains changes regarding free agency, arbitration, expanding playoffs, the DH, as well as maybe a salary floor. Come Monday let’s enjoy the offseason.


Amen and Amen.

It’s fair to disagree with BC approach, but all of the BS that doesn’t even try to consider what he’s done so far is completely unfair and agenda driven.



What’s really interesting to me is that Ben started with very little to even flip. 



Despite The perpetual personal agendas, the next two years are going to be a whirlwind. About 2023 There is every reason to anticipate meaningful baseball and it looks good for many years after that. Plenty to speak about this off-season and it’s actually about baseball.
Can you tell me how you purchased the Minor League Baseball package


I think I bought it through the app on the Apple store, but there are probably multiple ways to make the purchase.



https://www.milb.com/live-stream-games




Thank you- will check it out

606771797760272B52757F737B7E3C717D7F120 wrote: The  comment about drafting, developing, trading etc is the way to improve a last place team, is spot on. That is what Ben Cherington and his group are doing, and I have said it more than once [highlight]he would not have come to Pittsburgh if he did not receive assurances that when the time comes he will add pieces for the organization to contend for the postseason.[/highlight]




I wouldn't be surprised that BC received those assurances.  I also wouldn't be surprised if Nutting didn't carry through with them.  Is there anything that you've seen from Nutting since he gained control of the franchise that would suggest he would honor his promise?  Me neither.
You are so right about the way that Bob Nutting has run this franchise. Notwithstanding, I either read, or heard that after the 2019 season the Nutting family, possibly Mr. Nutting , was not pleased how the media and fans were writing and talking negatively towards the family. I may be in the minority, but I think the current management group including Travis Williams, as well as BC group have been given the directive to right the organization. I might be wrong, but I am going to continue to remain positive with the current Management Group.


Agreed.  I’ll go further - the current management team is doing an excellent job establishing a foundation to build a team.  It or may not be successful, but they are working a plan which is not only realistic but the ONLY realistic plan that has a chance to succeed. 



And count me as one that has grown weary of the same posts over and over by a few.  I’ve been off the board for two-three weeks as a result. 



Go kick your cans down some other lane.  Sheeze.



Oh, and I can’t wait to see what this self appointed expert panel is going to bring to the rest of our lives.  Oh boy.   



Maybe the mods can assign numbers 1, 2 and 3 to those posters who say the same three things over in every thread. 



Sorry for my surly attitude.  But most of this isn’t baseball talk, it’s a private bi!ch session carried out in public. 



(To be clean, I am not referring to Utah’s venting; he was actually offering ways forward).
We are all entitled to our own opinions. We all want the Bucs to succeed and have different opinions as to how it should be done. That is what makes any board interesting. I did take exception to one comment you made when you mentioned "self appointed experts". Believe me, I am no expert. Also, we were all given the opportunity to be on the panel. I thought it would be fun and said yes. As I mentioned before, I just graded the signing from 0-5 on what I felt the player deserved. Something to do during the Winter months. If more than one member disagreed with Shedman's grade, he made an "adjustment".

To my understanding, everyone here is as much of an expert as anyone else.  Some may add more supporting facts to base their opinion on, but that's about it.



I don't think that people make themselves look better by making personal attacks on folks they don't agree with.



Dave said it best:  Shed coordinates the OST polling, and anyone who'd like to participate has been welcomed to.  I haven't seen him turn anyone down.

635D5850435B5B507055425106340 wrote: The  comment about drafting, developing, trading etc is the way to improve a last place team, is spot on. That is what Ben Cherington and his group are doing, and I have said it more than once [highlight]he would not have come to Pittsburgh if he did not receive assurances that when the time comes he will add pieces for the organization to contend for the postseason.[/highlight]




I wouldn't be surprised that BC received those assurances.  I also wouldn't be surprised if Nutting didn't carry through with them.  Is there anything that you've seen from Nutting since he gained control of the franchise that would suggest he would honor his promise?  Me neither.
You are so right about the way that Bob Nutting has run this franchise. Notwithstanding, I either read, or heard that after the 2019 season the Nutting family, possibly Mr. Nutting , was not pleased how the media and fans were writing and talking negatively towards the family. I may be in the minority, but I think the current management group including Travis Williams, as well as BC group have been given the directive to right the organization. I might be wrong, but I am going to continue to remain positive with the current Management Group.


Agreed.  I’ll go further - the current management team is doing an excellent job establishing a foundation to build a team.  It or may not be successful, but they are working a plan which is not only realistic but the ONLY realistic plan that has a chance to succeed. 



And count me as one that has grown weary of the same posts over and over by a few.  I’ve been off the board for two-three weeks as a result. 



Go kick your cans down some other lane.  Sheeze.



Oh, and I can’t wait to see what this self appointed expert panel is going to bring to the rest of our lives.  Oh boy.   



Maybe the mods can assign numbers 1, 2 and 3 to those posters who say the same three things over in every thread. 



Sorry for my surly attitude.  But most of this isn’t baseball talk, it’s a private bi!ch session carried out in public. 



(To be clean, I am not referring to Utah’s venting; he was actually offering ways forward).
We are all entitled to our own opinions. We all want the Bucs to succeed and have different opinions as to how it should be done. That is what makes any board interesting. I did take exception to one comment you made when you mentioned "self appointed experts". Believe me, I am no expert. Also, we were all given the opportunity to be on the panel. I thought it would be fun and said yes. As I mentioned before, I just graded the signing from 0-5 on what I felt the player deserved. Something to do during the Winter months. If more than one member disagreed with Shedman's grade, he made an "adjustment".
Last year was the first year we did the off season thread on OBN. It was a carryover from the PMB board when that board folded and some of their posters joined OBN. It’s a way to have something to talk about in the offseason as it relates to all MLB moves. And I don’t think many, if any, are too concerned about the actual ”grades” accorded those moves.



As Pirates fans we are all too familiar with their off season habits. Or lack thereof. No relevant free agents, few significant trades. Whether we like it or not, that’s not how BC is trying to repair this broken franchise. Nor could it be with Nutting’s refusal to spend. BC seems to be drafting better than his predecessor and the talent at AA and A is encouraging. It seems fair to evaluate BC for what he is actually doing and criticize or praise based on that. It seems pointless to constantly whine about not embarking on a different course preferred by fans but not feasible with no financial support from the owner.



What was annoying about the off season thread last year was that with every move at the MLB level other GMs made, we saw the obligatory “BC is doing nothing, BC is kicking the can, BC should be fired” stuff. It’s fair to criticize the poor MLB roster BC gave us this year. But it’s also fair to keep in mind that was not the course he embarked on. BC will ultimately be judged on how well his plan works to rebuild this team, good or bad. Not on how poorly the MLB roster did in 2021 while the system was being replenished. Some of us at OBN were past members of PMB. When I was there many moons ago there was an “anything goes” attitude. There seemed to be few standards for posting or if there were, they weren’t enforced. Some posters seemed more interested in “stirring the pot” or getting under everyone’s skin than in discussing the Pirates. We don’t want that at OBN. So keep the off season thread for discussing off season moves throughout MLB. Not for a daily gripe session about a course of action the Pirates are not taking. It should be a fun thread and not an annoyance based on the behavior of one or two posters.

163B36272031266665540 wrote: The  comment about drafting, developing, trading etc is the way to improve a last place team, is spot on. That is what Ben Cherington and his group are doing, and I have said it more than once [highlight]he would not have come to Pittsburgh if he did not receive assurances that when the time comes he will add pieces for the organization to contend for the postseason.[/highlight]




I wouldn't be surprised that BC received those assurances.  I also wouldn't be surprised if Nutting didn't carry through with them.  Is there anything that you've seen from Nutting since he gained control of the franchise that would suggest he would honor his promise?  Me neither.
You are so right about the way that Bob Nutting has run this franchise. Notwithstanding, I either read, or heard that after the 2019 season the Nutting family, possibly Mr. Nutting , was not pleased how the media and fans were writing and talking negatively towards the family. I may be in the minority, but I think the current management group including Travis Williams, as well as BC group have been given the directive to right the organization. I might be wrong, but I am going to continue to remain positive with the current Management Group.


Agreed.  I’ll go further - the current management team is doing an excellent job establishing a foundation to build a team.  It or may not be successful, but they are working a plan which is not only realistic but the ONLY realistic plan that has a chance to succeed. 



And count me as one that has grown weary of the same posts over and over by a few.  I’ve been off the board for two-three weeks as a result. 



Go kick your cans down some other lane.  Sheeze.



Oh, and I can’t wait to see what this self appointed expert panel is going to bring to the rest of our lives.  Oh boy.   



Maybe the mods can assign numbers 1, 2 and 3 to those posters who say the same three things over in every thread. 



Sorry for my surly attitude.  But most of this isn’t baseball talk, it’s a private bi!ch session carried out in public. 



(To be clean, I am not referring to Utah’s venting; he was actually offering ways forward).
We are all entitled to our own opinions. We all want the Bucs to succeed and have different opinions as to how it should be done. That is what makes any board interesting. I did take exception to one comment you made when you mentioned "self appointed experts". Believe me, I am no expert. Also, we were all given the opportunity to be on the panel. I thought it would be fun and said yes. As I mentioned before, I just graded the signing from 0-5 on what I felt the player deserved. Something to do during the Winter months. If more than one member disagreed with Shedman's grade, he made an "adjustment".
Last year was the first year we did the off season thread on OBN. It was a carryover from the PMB board when that board folded and some of their posters joined OBN. It’s a way to have something to talk about in the offseason as it relates to all MLB moves. And I don’t think many, if any, are too concerned about the actual ”grades” accorded those moves.



As Pirates fans we are all too familiar with their off season habits. Or lack thereof. No relevant free agents, few significant trades. Whether we like it or not, that’s not how BC is trying to repair this broken franchise. Nor could it be with Nutting’s refusal to spend. BC seems to be drafting better than his predecessor and the talent at AA and A is encouraging. It seems fair to evaluate BC for what he is actually doing and criticize or praise based on that. It seems pointless to constantly whine about not embarking on a different course preferred by fans but not feasible with no financial support from the owner.



What was annoying about the off season thread last year was that with every move at the MLB level other GMs made, we saw the obligatory “BC is doing nothing, BC is kicking the can, BC should be fired” stuff. It’s fair to criticize the poor MLB roster BC gave us this year. But it’s also fair to keep in mind that was not the course he embarked on. BC will ultimately be judged on how well his plan works to rebuild this team, good or bad. Not on how poorly the MLB roster did in 2021 while the system was being replenished. Some of us at OBN were past members of PMB. When I was there many moons ago there was an “anything goes” attitude. There seemed to be few standards for posting or if there were, they weren’t enforced. Some posters seemed more interested in “stirring the pot” or getting under everyone’s skin than in discussing the Pirates. We don’t want that at OBN. So keep the off season thread for discussing off season moves throughout MLB. Not for a daily gripe session about a course of action the Pirates are not taking. It should be a fun thread and not an annoyance based on the behavior of one or two posters.   




For those who are the few that Bobster is talking about, be aware that we will not stand for the annoyance you create.

What in anybodys right mind would make you think Bob will spend money? His track record? 20 some years of pocketing money. If you don't think he made money this year your crazy.

On top of it, if anyone one thinks the man has any shame your double crazy. He laughs all the way to the bank. He doesn't think like you and I. It how his family became billionaires. The Bucos are a business plain and simple. He has shown that after the 3 miracle years in the mid 10's..... he slashed payroll!!!!!

We are not the Ray's... he could spend money. He doesn't t care!!

If we ever win again it will be a strike it lucky year like before.

If you really really think Cherington was guaranteed he would have payroll then you have not paid attention for the last 2 decades. The hillbilly billionaire takes a dump truck and trucks all that money he makes at PNC and from the MLB handouts back to WV.

If he wasn't, he and the 24 other "small market" owners would be having a fit. Really think 24 billionaires would sit back and let 5 or 6 teams make all the money?

Not how they got rich!



Its about actions people. How can you possibly think his actions will change? Bc he's been shamed in the media!!!

Blahhhhh! Thats a good one. Guess what, he owns most of the media. He doesn't give a hoot.

All I can do is point out that our payroll was in the $100M range during the few playoff years. I think BN will be willing to go there again if he is confident we have that kind of talent again.

303532343C362F323B282E235A0 wrote: All I can do is point out that our payroll was in the $100M range during the few playoff years.  I think BN will be willing to go there again if he is confident we have that kind of talent again.
hopefully we will be able to find out