Re: 2024 Official Spring Training Thread
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:41 pm
As we get ready for the Pirates to play ball, I got to thinking about the trades since BC has taken over. A where are they now thing. Not all trades, just guys that were good or expected to be. When I say good, it means they have not been reduced to hanger on journeymen guys, they've been part of major league rosters primarily, and not up and down AAA guys. I'll also include guys who we know were signed hoping they would revive their careers, and flip them at the deadline, guys that worked out fairly well for the Bucs.
Joe Musgrove (8.9 WAR with SD)- RHP-David Bednar (Pirates closer 6.0 WAR with Pirates), C-Endy Rodriguez (IL 40 man roster 0.2 WAR with Pirates), OF-Hudson Head (22-Greensboro), LHP-Omar Cruz (gone), RHP-Drake Fellows (25-Bradenton). If Rodriguez can come back from his injury and become a solid 2-3 WAR player, this trade, which is already starting to be forgotten about, will turn out to be a winner for the Pirates. But wow, Musgrove sure would look nice in the rotation.
Starling Marte (1.1 WAR with AZ; 9.3 WAR total AZ, MIA, OAK, NYM)-RHP-Brennan Malone (23-Indy), SS-Liover Peguero (-0.4 WAR with Pirates), $250,000 international signing bonus pool. Part of the 20-21 international draft class includes 4 players in the Pirates top 50 prospects. This trade has yet, and may never make it more than a salary dump.
Josh Bell (6.5 WAR with Wash, 6.5 WAR total Wash, SD, Clev, Mia)- RHP Wil Crowe (0.2 WAR with Pirates, released, pitching in KBO league, gave up Aaron Judge's 60th HR), RHP Eddy Yean (22-Greensboro). This trade is an absolute disaster, as Yean was the prize return, and can't get above high A.
Jameson Taillon (3.6 WAR with NYY)- RHP Miguel Yajure (-1.4 WAR with Pirates, released, in NPB, first player in MLB history to wear number 89, the last number to never have been worn in MLB), RHP Roansy Contreras (1.0 WAR with Pirates on their 40 man roster), OF Canaan Smith-Njigba (-0.2 WAR with Pirates, waived, claimed back off waivers on 40 man roster), SS Maikol Escotto (21-Greensboro, 38th ranked prospect). This is a low bar to climb over if Contreras can return to form. However, it was Yajure that was the prime return. So far, underwhelming at the very least.
Adam Frazier and 1.4 million (1.0 WAR with SD, 3.4 WAR total SD, Sea, Balt)- IF/OF Tucupita Marcano (-0.9 WAR with Pirates, released, claimed by SD) , OF Jack Suwinski (3.4 WAR with Pirates and starting CF), RHP Michell Miliano (declared free agency). So far a very solid trade for the Pirates as Suwinski alone makes this trade a good one, though Marcano was the centerpiece. Needless to say, the Padres may be wary when Ben approaches in the future.
Clay Holmes (4.4 WAR with NYY, now their closer with 44 saves)- IF Diego Castillo (0.2 WAR with Pirates; traded to AZ for RHP Scott Randall 25-Indy), IF Hoy Park (-0.5 WAR with Pirates; traded to Boston for LHP Inmer Lobo-20 DSL). This was mostly a case of swapping potential for potential, and the Yankees clearly won this trade, as Holmes is a legit all star level relief pitcher.
Robert Stephenson (1.2 WAR with TBR; signed 3/33 FA contract with Angels)- SS Alika Williams (-0.2 WAR with Pirates, on 40 man roster) A confusing trade, as Stephenson never amounted to much with the Reds or the Rockies, made improvement with the Pirates, and became all star level with Tampa Bay, and parlayed his time there into a rich contract with the Angels. The Rays didn't give up much, though fixing a guy and letting him go for nothing is just as bad as the Pirates trading him for organizational filler. Two relief pitchers that makes you wonder had we fixed them, what kind of bullpen would we be looking at now with RS and Holmes? Pirates took a beat down on this trade.
Daniel Vogelbach (1.1 WAR with NYM; on minor league deal with Toronto)- RHP Colin Holderman (0.5 WAR with Pirates on 40 man roster) Holderman was a much more productive player for the Pirates in 2023 than Vogelbach was for the Mets. DV was 0.9 WAR with the Mets in less than half a season to Holderman's -0.2 WAR the trade year, but Holderman far outperformed him last season. Holderman is in the majors, Vogelbach is not. Holderman has become a solid bullpen piece. GMBC finally wins a relief pitcher trade.
Rich Hill (-1.1 with SD; currently a FA) and Ji Man Choi (-0.4 WAR with SD; signed minor league contract with NYM)- LHP Jackson Wolf (Pirates 40 man roster), OF Estuar Suero (18 FCL), 1B Alfonso Rivas (0.3 WAR with Pirates; claimed off waivers by Clev; DFA by Clev; claim by LAA; dfa by LAA; claimed by StL on their 40 man roster). This was a trade that the Pirates won more by subtraction than addition. If Suero or Wolf contribute anything, it's a disaster for SD. The only thing that could have made it better is if the Pirates had been able to trade Rivas, who was able to land on a 40 man roster.
Jose Quintana (1.6 WAR with StL; signed 2/26 FA deal with NYM, 3.2 total with StL and NYM) and Chris Stratton (0.4 WAR with StL, 0.8 total with StL and Tex; signed 1 year FA deal with KC)- RHP Johan Oviedo (2.8 WAR with Pirates, out for 2024 with TJ surgery), OF Malcom Nunez (22 Indy, Pirates #22 prospect). If Oviedo returns to form in 2025, this was an absolute fleecing of the Cardinals, who have nothing to show for this deal, though Stratton was part of the Montgomery package to Texas. Yinzers wait patiently (?) to see if Nunez is the savior at first base.
Jacob Stallings (-1.3 WAR with Miami; signed 1/2 FA deal with Rockies)- RHP Zach Thompson (-0.2 WAR with Pirates; traded to Tor for Chavez Young who elected FA in November. Thompson was DFA by Tor, and elected FA in November as well), RHP Kyle Nicolas (-0.3 WAR with Pirates, on Pirates 40 man roster), OF Connor Scott (24-Altoona). A nothing for nothing trade it turns out, though there's still hope for the Pirates with Nicolas to win this trade. Stallings was traded after a career year, and it's a shame they didn't get more because they got rid of him at just the right time.
Tyler Anderson (0.3 WAR with Sea; 4.8 WAR total with Sea, LAD, LAA. Signed a 1/8 deal with LAD; signed a 3/39 deal with LAA.) - C Carter Bins (25-Altoona), RHP Joaquin Tejada (20-DSL) If they only knew what he would become, they could have kept him. Bins has been injury plagued, and highly regarded as a defensive catcher, and is a non-roster invite to Pirates ST. The Pirates lost this deal, simply because they signed Anderson with the intent of flipping him if he did well, and they haven't shown anything so far in return.
Carlos Santana (1.1 WAR with Milwaukee, signed 1/5.25 with Min)- SS Jhonny Severino (18 DSL). Hard to say with this one, Brewers gave the kid a ton of money to trade him this fast. Hard to imagine the Pirates couldn't have gotten a MLB player in this trade.
So what's your take? I know there have been other trades, but these are the ones that standout simply because they were deadline deals, or offseason deals that were supposed to build the organization.
Joe Musgrove (8.9 WAR with SD)- RHP-David Bednar (Pirates closer 6.0 WAR with Pirates), C-Endy Rodriguez (IL 40 man roster 0.2 WAR with Pirates), OF-Hudson Head (22-Greensboro), LHP-Omar Cruz (gone), RHP-Drake Fellows (25-Bradenton). If Rodriguez can come back from his injury and become a solid 2-3 WAR player, this trade, which is already starting to be forgotten about, will turn out to be a winner for the Pirates. But wow, Musgrove sure would look nice in the rotation.
Starling Marte (1.1 WAR with AZ; 9.3 WAR total AZ, MIA, OAK, NYM)-RHP-Brennan Malone (23-Indy), SS-Liover Peguero (-0.4 WAR with Pirates), $250,000 international signing bonus pool. Part of the 20-21 international draft class includes 4 players in the Pirates top 50 prospects. This trade has yet, and may never make it more than a salary dump.
Josh Bell (6.5 WAR with Wash, 6.5 WAR total Wash, SD, Clev, Mia)- RHP Wil Crowe (0.2 WAR with Pirates, released, pitching in KBO league, gave up Aaron Judge's 60th HR), RHP Eddy Yean (22-Greensboro). This trade is an absolute disaster, as Yean was the prize return, and can't get above high A.
Jameson Taillon (3.6 WAR with NYY)- RHP Miguel Yajure (-1.4 WAR with Pirates, released, in NPB, first player in MLB history to wear number 89, the last number to never have been worn in MLB), RHP Roansy Contreras (1.0 WAR with Pirates on their 40 man roster), OF Canaan Smith-Njigba (-0.2 WAR with Pirates, waived, claimed back off waivers on 40 man roster), SS Maikol Escotto (21-Greensboro, 38th ranked prospect). This is a low bar to climb over if Contreras can return to form. However, it was Yajure that was the prime return. So far, underwhelming at the very least.
Adam Frazier and 1.4 million (1.0 WAR with SD, 3.4 WAR total SD, Sea, Balt)- IF/OF Tucupita Marcano (-0.9 WAR with Pirates, released, claimed by SD) , OF Jack Suwinski (3.4 WAR with Pirates and starting CF), RHP Michell Miliano (declared free agency). So far a very solid trade for the Pirates as Suwinski alone makes this trade a good one, though Marcano was the centerpiece. Needless to say, the Padres may be wary when Ben approaches in the future.
Clay Holmes (4.4 WAR with NYY, now their closer with 44 saves)- IF Diego Castillo (0.2 WAR with Pirates; traded to AZ for RHP Scott Randall 25-Indy), IF Hoy Park (-0.5 WAR with Pirates; traded to Boston for LHP Inmer Lobo-20 DSL). This was mostly a case of swapping potential for potential, and the Yankees clearly won this trade, as Holmes is a legit all star level relief pitcher.
Robert Stephenson (1.2 WAR with TBR; signed 3/33 FA contract with Angels)- SS Alika Williams (-0.2 WAR with Pirates, on 40 man roster) A confusing trade, as Stephenson never amounted to much with the Reds or the Rockies, made improvement with the Pirates, and became all star level with Tampa Bay, and parlayed his time there into a rich contract with the Angels. The Rays didn't give up much, though fixing a guy and letting him go for nothing is just as bad as the Pirates trading him for organizational filler. Two relief pitchers that makes you wonder had we fixed them, what kind of bullpen would we be looking at now with RS and Holmes? Pirates took a beat down on this trade.
Daniel Vogelbach (1.1 WAR with NYM; on minor league deal with Toronto)- RHP Colin Holderman (0.5 WAR with Pirates on 40 man roster) Holderman was a much more productive player for the Pirates in 2023 than Vogelbach was for the Mets. DV was 0.9 WAR with the Mets in less than half a season to Holderman's -0.2 WAR the trade year, but Holderman far outperformed him last season. Holderman is in the majors, Vogelbach is not. Holderman has become a solid bullpen piece. GMBC finally wins a relief pitcher trade.
Rich Hill (-1.1 with SD; currently a FA) and Ji Man Choi (-0.4 WAR with SD; signed minor league contract with NYM)- LHP Jackson Wolf (Pirates 40 man roster), OF Estuar Suero (18 FCL), 1B Alfonso Rivas (0.3 WAR with Pirates; claimed off waivers by Clev; DFA by Clev; claim by LAA; dfa by LAA; claimed by StL on their 40 man roster). This was a trade that the Pirates won more by subtraction than addition. If Suero or Wolf contribute anything, it's a disaster for SD. The only thing that could have made it better is if the Pirates had been able to trade Rivas, who was able to land on a 40 man roster.
Jose Quintana (1.6 WAR with StL; signed 2/26 FA deal with NYM, 3.2 total with StL and NYM) and Chris Stratton (0.4 WAR with StL, 0.8 total with StL and Tex; signed 1 year FA deal with KC)- RHP Johan Oviedo (2.8 WAR with Pirates, out for 2024 with TJ surgery), OF Malcom Nunez (22 Indy, Pirates #22 prospect). If Oviedo returns to form in 2025, this was an absolute fleecing of the Cardinals, who have nothing to show for this deal, though Stratton was part of the Montgomery package to Texas. Yinzers wait patiently (?) to see if Nunez is the savior at first base.
Jacob Stallings (-1.3 WAR with Miami; signed 1/2 FA deal with Rockies)- RHP Zach Thompson (-0.2 WAR with Pirates; traded to Tor for Chavez Young who elected FA in November. Thompson was DFA by Tor, and elected FA in November as well), RHP Kyle Nicolas (-0.3 WAR with Pirates, on Pirates 40 man roster), OF Connor Scott (24-Altoona). A nothing for nothing trade it turns out, though there's still hope for the Pirates with Nicolas to win this trade. Stallings was traded after a career year, and it's a shame they didn't get more because they got rid of him at just the right time.
Tyler Anderson (0.3 WAR with Sea; 4.8 WAR total with Sea, LAD, LAA. Signed a 1/8 deal with LAD; signed a 3/39 deal with LAA.) - C Carter Bins (25-Altoona), RHP Joaquin Tejada (20-DSL) If they only knew what he would become, they could have kept him. Bins has been injury plagued, and highly regarded as a defensive catcher, and is a non-roster invite to Pirates ST. The Pirates lost this deal, simply because they signed Anderson with the intent of flipping him if he did well, and they haven't shown anything so far in return.
Carlos Santana (1.1 WAR with Milwaukee, signed 1/5.25 with Min)- SS Jhonny Severino (18 DSL). Hard to say with this one, Brewers gave the kid a ton of money to trade him this fast. Hard to imagine the Pirates couldn't have gotten a MLB player in this trade.
So what's your take? I know there have been other trades, but these are the ones that standout simply because they were deadline deals, or offseason deals that were supposed to build the organization.