Here we go
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SteadyFreddy
Here we go
Right now if the Bucs were in any other division just to put somethings in perspective here would be there situation. They would be 11 games behind the Nationals in the East. They would be 12.5 games behind the Rockies in the West, and currently they are 11.5 games out of both the 1st and 2nd wildcard spots behind both the Dodgers and DBacks who currently have the same record. So as I've been saying the Pirates treading water in this division sooner or later will have them buried in the standings and completely irrelevant in the standings as soon as early to mid July.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
Here we go
092E3F3B3E231C283F3E3E235A0 wrote: The Pirates absolutely handed this game to the Cubs because of complete and total mismanagement by Hurdle. Polanco flat out stinks too and is quickly turning into Jose Tabata Part II. No excuse for his numbers to be as terrible as they are right now. Hurdle is a complete moron for using Rivero the way he did in the 8th. It's insane.
Why do you think Nicasio wouldn't have exploded in the 8th vs the top of the order and Bryant?
This game wasn't handed to the Cubs. They crushed the ball in the 9th and still faced the tying run in the 9th. Well if you start the 8th with Nicasio and he gets in trouble you can go to Rivero and get can get 4 or even 5 outs if he has too. He has the stones to pitch in these kinds of situations and is your best option to close games. They handed the game to the Cubs by once again overthinking things. Like I said anyway this team is going nowhere at 7 games under .500. The Pirates would be completely buried if they were in any other division in baseball. To start the 8th inning with Rivero was a dumb decision when you don't have a great closer to pitch in the 9th inning. Having Nicasio face Heyward when he has a .380 average against him is even more ridiculous. Like I said handed the game to the Cubs.
Agree, Nicasio should have started the 8th inning and Rivero to save him if necessary. Nicasio has not shown himself to be able to close out games, just like Watson. They are actually paying Hurdle to do this stuff, crazy.
Why do you think Nicasio wouldn't have exploded in the 8th vs the top of the order and Bryant?
This game wasn't handed to the Cubs. They crushed the ball in the 9th and still faced the tying run in the 9th. Well if you start the 8th with Nicasio and he gets in trouble you can go to Rivero and get can get 4 or even 5 outs if he has too. He has the stones to pitch in these kinds of situations and is your best option to close games. They handed the game to the Cubs by once again overthinking things. Like I said anyway this team is going nowhere at 7 games under .500. The Pirates would be completely buried if they were in any other division in baseball. To start the 8th inning with Rivero was a dumb decision when you don't have a great closer to pitch in the 9th inning. Having Nicasio face Heyward when he has a .380 average against him is even more ridiculous. Like I said handed the game to the Cubs.
Agree, Nicasio should have started the 8th inning and Rivero to save him if necessary. Nicasio has not shown himself to be able to close out games, just like Watson. They are actually paying Hurdle to do this stuff, crazy.
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Bobster21
Here we go
7B5C4D494C516E5A4D4C4C51280 wrote: Right now if the Bucs were in any other division just to put somethings in perspective here would be there situation. They would be 11 games behind the Nationals in the East. They would be 12.5 games behind the Rockies in the West, and currently they are 11.5 games out of both the 1st and 2nd wildcard spots behind both the Dodgers and DBacks who currently have the same record. So as I've been saying the Pirates treading water in this division sooner or later will have them buried in the standings and completely irrelevant in the standings as soon as early to mid July.
That's why I don't get excited about them still being within striking distance of their division lead. Even in a weak division there are 3 other teams ahead of them. They are 7 under .500 for a reason. Thru 67 games they have maintained problematic rotation and bullpen issues. Hitting has been inconsistent. Hurdle has consistently made poor decisions. And the front office has not budged from their stance on refusing to try to compensate for the losses of Kang and Marte. I don't see any reason to believe this team is going to suddenly become much more efficient, turn things around and challenge for 1st place. It seems far more reasonable to anticipate a continuation of how things have been going and fall further and further behind.
That's why I don't get excited about them still being within striking distance of their division lead. Even in a weak division there are 3 other teams ahead of them. They are 7 under .500 for a reason. Thru 67 games they have maintained problematic rotation and bullpen issues. Hitting has been inconsistent. Hurdle has consistently made poor decisions. And the front office has not budged from their stance on refusing to try to compensate for the losses of Kang and Marte. I don't see any reason to believe this team is going to suddenly become much more efficient, turn things around and challenge for 1st place. It seems far more reasonable to anticipate a continuation of how things have been going and fall further and further behind.
Here we go
Two things...
1. They don't play in another division. They play in the NL Central, of which the rules dictate someone must win. In 2015 when we won 98 and would have won every other division in baseball, we kept hearing the same mantra, "They don't play in another division. They play in the NL Central, and 98 wins isn't good enough to win the Central." Well, this year, 84 or 85 wins might get you a division crown.
2. Last night stunk. But, Hurdle did the right thing, IMO. Many posters on this very board bemoan the role of the closer, and routinely argue that your best reliever should be used in the highest leverage situations. I can only imagine the angst that would have gone on here had Nicasio come in in the 8th and given up the lead to Rizzo (lefty), Happ (switch hitter who's better from the left side), and Schwarber (lefty). The only thing I would have done differently and I wish Hurdle would have done was have Watson pitch to Heyward. I agree that Rivero was spent after the Russell AB. But Heyward has killed Nicasio. Owns him. If I'm Hurdle, I use Watson as a LOOGY there and have him get Heyward. Then turn it over to Nicasio.
1. They don't play in another division. They play in the NL Central, of which the rules dictate someone must win. In 2015 when we won 98 and would have won every other division in baseball, we kept hearing the same mantra, "They don't play in another division. They play in the NL Central, and 98 wins isn't good enough to win the Central." Well, this year, 84 or 85 wins might get you a division crown.
2. Last night stunk. But, Hurdle did the right thing, IMO. Many posters on this very board bemoan the role of the closer, and routinely argue that your best reliever should be used in the highest leverage situations. I can only imagine the angst that would have gone on here had Nicasio come in in the 8th and given up the lead to Rizzo (lefty), Happ (switch hitter who's better from the left side), and Schwarber (lefty). The only thing I would have done differently and I wish Hurdle would have done was have Watson pitch to Heyward. I agree that Rivero was spent after the Russell AB. But Heyward has killed Nicasio. Owns him. If I'm Hurdle, I use Watson as a LOOGY there and have him get Heyward. Then turn it over to Nicasio.
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SteadyFreddy
Here we go
This team won't sniff 84 or 85 wins IA not gonna happen. Right now they would have to go 54-41 in their last 95 games remaining just to win 84 games. Has this team shown you anything this season to make you believe they can play 13 games above .500 for the remainder of the season?? The Cubs at some point are going to catch fire here it's just a matter of time. They have too much talent and are too good of a team for us to realistically expect them to be a .500 or just below .500 team the rest of the season. If that happens which it most likely will sooner rather then later this season is over.
The bad part about this also is the 2nd wildcard is not even an option for the Pirates this season seeing how good both the Dodgers and Diamondbacks and even the Rockies are in the NL West. Normally playing right around or even below .500 even until August will at least keep you in the 2nd wildcard race but that's not happening this season as the Pirates have no chance what so ever of getting a wildcard spot at this point as they are already 11.5 games back not even halfway into the season. They have no chance of making up that kind of deficit.
The bad part about this also is the 2nd wildcard is not even an option for the Pirates this season seeing how good both the Dodgers and Diamondbacks and even the Rockies are in the NL West. Normally playing right around or even below .500 even until August will at least keep you in the 2nd wildcard race but that's not happening this season as the Pirates have no chance what so ever of getting a wildcard spot at this point as they are already 11.5 games back not even halfway into the season. They have no chance of making up that kind of deficit.
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Bobster21
Here we go
282023140227000F610 wrote: Two things...
1. They don't play in another division. They play in the NL Central, of which the rules dictate someone must win. In 2015 when we won 98 and would have won every other division in baseball, we kept hearing the same mantra, "They don't play in another division. They play in the NL Central, and 98 wins isn't good enough to win the Central." Well, this year, 84 or 85 wins might get you a division crown.
2. Last night stunk. But, Hurdle did the right thing, IMO. Many posters on this very board bemoan the role of the closer, and routinely argue that your best reliever should be used in the highest leverage situations. I can only imagine the angst that would have gone on here had Nicasio come in in the 8th and given up the lead to Rizzo (lefty), Happ (switch hitter who's better from the left side), and Schwarber (lefty). The only thing I would have done differently and I wish Hurdle would have done was have Watson pitch to Heyward. I agree that Rivero was spent after the Russell AB. But Heyward has killed Nicasio. Owns him. If I'm Hurdle, I use Watson as a LOOGY there and have him get Heyward. Then turn it over to Nicasio.
I suspect that if Rivero had had a quick 8th he would have come back in the 9th. Maybe a 2-inning save. But the 20-pitch inning changed that. Still, I would have let him pitch to Heyward since that guy owns Nicasio. Or, if that wasn't possible, then Watson as you suggested. Anyone but Nicasio for that batter. But since Watson had nothing, I guess it wouldn't have mattered.
1. They don't play in another division. They play in the NL Central, of which the rules dictate someone must win. In 2015 when we won 98 and would have won every other division in baseball, we kept hearing the same mantra, "They don't play in another division. They play in the NL Central, and 98 wins isn't good enough to win the Central." Well, this year, 84 or 85 wins might get you a division crown.
2. Last night stunk. But, Hurdle did the right thing, IMO. Many posters on this very board bemoan the role of the closer, and routinely argue that your best reliever should be used in the highest leverage situations. I can only imagine the angst that would have gone on here had Nicasio come in in the 8th and given up the lead to Rizzo (lefty), Happ (switch hitter who's better from the left side), and Schwarber (lefty). The only thing I would have done differently and I wish Hurdle would have done was have Watson pitch to Heyward. I agree that Rivero was spent after the Russell AB. But Heyward has killed Nicasio. Owns him. If I'm Hurdle, I use Watson as a LOOGY there and have him get Heyward. Then turn it over to Nicasio.
I suspect that if Rivero had had a quick 8th he would have come back in the 9th. Maybe a 2-inning save. But the 20-pitch inning changed that. Still, I would have let him pitch to Heyward since that guy owns Nicasio. Or, if that wasn't possible, then Watson as you suggested. Anyone but Nicasio for that batter. But since Watson had nothing, I guess it wouldn't have mattered.
Here we go
00273632372A15213637372A530 wrote: This team won't sniff 84 or 85 wins IA not gonna happen. Right now they would have to go 54-41 in their last 95 games remaining just to win 84 games. Has this team shown you anything this season to make you believe they can play 13 games above .500 for the remainder of the season?? The Cubs at some point are going to catch fire here it's just a matter of time. They have too much talent and are too good of a team for us to realistically expect them to be a .500 or just below .500 team the rest of the season. If that happens which it most likely will sooner rather then later this season is over.
The bad part about this also is the 2nd wildcard is not even an option for the Pirates this season seeing how good both the Dodgers and Diamondbacks and even the Rockies are in the NL West. Normally playing right around or even below .500 even until August will at least keep you in the 2nd wildcard race but that's not happening this season as the Pirates have no chance what so ever of getting a wildcard spot at this point as they are already 11.5 games back not even halfway into the season. They have no chance of making up that kind of deficit.
This management team stinks.
Guys, it's ten years since this group has been hired. The drafting and player development just isn't good enough to make a team with a Nutting budget a legit contender.
Bob Nutting is 100% satisfied with the disaster that his team is because wins and losses don't matter when the value of your franchise increases by $50 million per year.
The bad part about this also is the 2nd wildcard is not even an option for the Pirates this season seeing how good both the Dodgers and Diamondbacks and even the Rockies are in the NL West. Normally playing right around or even below .500 even until August will at least keep you in the 2nd wildcard race but that's not happening this season as the Pirates have no chance what so ever of getting a wildcard spot at this point as they are already 11.5 games back not even halfway into the season. They have no chance of making up that kind of deficit.
This management team stinks.
Guys, it's ten years since this group has been hired. The drafting and player development just isn't good enough to make a team with a Nutting budget a legit contender.
Bob Nutting is 100% satisfied with the disaster that his team is because wins and losses don't matter when the value of your franchise increases by $50 million per year.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Here we go
Just my .02€: last night hurt. Especially against the Cubs.
What could have been....
What could have been....
Here we go
595152657356717E100 wrote: Two things...
1. They don't play in another division. They play in the NL Central, of which the rules dictate someone must win. In 2015 when we won 98 and would have won every other division in baseball, we kept hearing the same mantra, "They don't play in another division. They play in the NL Central, and 98 wins isn't good enough to win the Central." Well, this year, 84 or 85 wins might get you a division crown.
2. Last night stunk. But, Hurdle did the right thing, IMO. Many posters on this very board bemoan the role of the closer, and routinely argue that your best reliever should be used in the highest leverage situations. I can only imagine the angst that would have gone on here had Nicasio come in in the 8th and given up the lead to Rizzo (lefty), Happ (switch hitter who's better from the left side), and Schwarber (lefty). The only thing I would have done differently and I wish Hurdle would have done was have Watson pitch to Heyward. I agree that Rivero was spent after the Russell AB. But Heyward has killed Nicasio. Owns him. If I'm Hurdle, I use Watson as a LOOGY there and have him get Heyward. Then turn it over to Nicasio.
Finally someone writes exactly what I was thinking. Watson should have been used as a LOOGY to get Heyward. Could not believe Clint opted to start the inning with Nicosia vs. Heyward.
1. They don't play in another division. They play in the NL Central, of which the rules dictate someone must win. In 2015 when we won 98 and would have won every other division in baseball, we kept hearing the same mantra, "They don't play in another division. They play in the NL Central, and 98 wins isn't good enough to win the Central." Well, this year, 84 or 85 wins might get you a division crown.
2. Last night stunk. But, Hurdle did the right thing, IMO. Many posters on this very board bemoan the role of the closer, and routinely argue that your best reliever should be used in the highest leverage situations. I can only imagine the angst that would have gone on here had Nicasio come in in the 8th and given up the lead to Rizzo (lefty), Happ (switch hitter who's better from the left side), and Schwarber (lefty). The only thing I would have done differently and I wish Hurdle would have done was have Watson pitch to Heyward. I agree that Rivero was spent after the Russell AB. But Heyward has killed Nicasio. Owns him. If I'm Hurdle, I use Watson as a LOOGY there and have him get Heyward. Then turn it over to Nicasio.
Finally someone writes exactly what I was thinking. Watson should have been used as a LOOGY to get Heyward. Could not believe Clint opted to start the inning with Nicosia vs. Heyward.
Here we go
5373607D7C120 wrote: This team won't sniff 84 or 85 wins IA not gonna happen. Right now they would have to go 54-41 in their last 95 games remaining just to win 84 games. Has this team shown you anything this season to make you believe they can play 13 games above .500 for the remainder of the season?? The Cubs at some point are going to catch fire here it's just a matter of time. They have too much talent and are too good of a team for us to realistically expect them to be a .500 or just below .500 team the rest of the season. If that happens which it most likely will sooner rather then later this season is over.
The bad part about this also is the 2nd wildcard is not even an option for the Pirates this season seeing how good both the Dodgers and Diamondbacks and even the Rockies are in the NL West. Normally playing right around or even below .500 even until August will at least keep you in the 2nd wildcard race but that's not happening this season as the Pirates have no chance what so ever of getting a wildcard spot at this point as they are already 11.5 games back not even halfway into the season. They have no chance of making up that kind of deficit.
This management team stinks.
Guys, it's ten years since this group has been hired. The drafting and player development just isn't good enough to make a team with a Nutting budget a legit contender.
Bob Nutting is 100% satisfied with the disaster that his team is because wins and losses don't matter when the value of your franchise increases by $50 million per year.
So who do you replace the management team with? I want names.
The bad part about this also is the 2nd wildcard is not even an option for the Pirates this season seeing how good both the Dodgers and Diamondbacks and even the Rockies are in the NL West. Normally playing right around or even below .500 even until August will at least keep you in the 2nd wildcard race but that's not happening this season as the Pirates have no chance what so ever of getting a wildcard spot at this point as they are already 11.5 games back not even halfway into the season. They have no chance of making up that kind of deficit.
This management team stinks.
Guys, it's ten years since this group has been hired. The drafting and player development just isn't good enough to make a team with a Nutting budget a legit contender.
Bob Nutting is 100% satisfied with the disaster that his team is because wins and losses don't matter when the value of your franchise increases by $50 million per year.
So who do you replace the management team with? I want names.