Huntington on Bell/Jaso on radio show...

[CTBucco]

IMO, the FO really doesn't want to eat Jaso's contract. I think they are going to give him every chance to get in a hot streak to make him more appealing to some AL team looking for a bench bat for the stretch run. Bell having a slump in his return to AAA makes it easier to give Jaso this chance since they also don't want Bell to be slumping when he comes up to stay.



I believe the FO may be overly sensitive to letting prospects struggle a little when they come up. It is how they learn as long as it doesn't break them. Glasnow needs to learn how to deal with the tougher competition against that competition. I compare him to Randy Johnson at this point. He was overpowering but wild. He didn't improve his command until he had been in MLB a couple of years. NH would have kept him down until he was 28 years old.



NOTE: I generally like the direction this FO takes the team.

[Steve19981]

7551454D48240 wrote: It's pretty laughable how people complained all last year about Alvarez' defense and now gloss over Bell's. Personally, I value offense over defense at first as I have always. Curious about people's philosophical flip flop. Why was it relevant last year and not relevant now?


Well, Pedro was historically bad at first.  Maybe Bell would be nearly as bad but he is doing better at Indy than what Pedro did for Bucs last year.  I don't see it as a flip flop at all. 


It's difficult for me to say historically bad when Ryan Howard was in the ball park of that bad just seven years prior.




In 2008 (his worst defensive season) Howard had a .988 fielding percentage. He made 19 errors in 1528 chances. Last year Pedro made 23 errors in 1057 chances for a .978 fielding percentage. Not in the same "ball park" or even the same county.



Pedro was Dick Stuart historically bad. Howard was not. And that is the reason that many of us aren't concerned about Bell. No one should reasonably expect Pedro level defense from Bell or anyone else for that matter for another generation.   




Sorry the difference between bad and "historically" bad simply isnt wide enough to have me convinced. Were talking the difference of one and 100 outcomes. Not to mention Mike Jacobs also had a worse similar UZR/ 100 in 2008. Pedro might be worse, but Bell projects to be really bad as well. Degree of bad really doesn't make a huge difference esp. Over two months.



I think Bell is the better hitter long term. I also think firstbase defense is barely worth noting, but to jump on Pedro and gloss over it with seems silly. If it was something important, it should always be important.

[SammyKhalifa]

Jaso's career overall numbers were in line with Pedro's offensive season last year. So if that had continued then yeah this is an upgrade. Jaso is in the middle of a big two month slide though so the discussion changes.

[SteadyFreddy]

5047516670707C130 wrote: IMO, the FO really doesn't want to eat Jaso's contract. I think they are going to give him every chance to get in a hot streak to make him more appealing to some AL team looking for a bench bat for the stretch run. Bell having a slump in his return to AAA makes it easier to give Jaso this chance since they also don't want Bell to be slumping when he comes up to stay.



I believe the FO may be overly sensitive to letting prospects struggle a little when they come up. It is how they learn as long as it doesn't break them. Glasnow needs to learn how to deal with the tougher competition against that competition. I compare him to Randy Johnson at this point. He was overpowering but wild. He didn't improve his command until he had been in MLB a couple of years. NH would have kept him down until he was 28 years old.



NOTE:  I generally like the direction this FO takes the team. Jaso's contract at this rate is looking like one of the worst decisions the Pirates have made in quite sometime. They should have never given this guy a multi year deal and paid him 4 million dollars a season. You cant keep Jaso around next season at 4 million dollars on the bench when he cant play any other positions and he cant hit left handed pitching. He is essentially useless. If they aren't going DFA Jaso which I suspect they wont do, the Pirates really need to try desperately to dump this guy at the waiver deadline or trade him in the offseason for anything. They need to have that 4 million dollars tied up in Jaso right now to use for pitching help or anything else for that matter other then Jaso.

[Quail]

6E49584B580C0404050C3D0 wrote: It's pretty laughable how people complained all last year about Alvarez' defense and now gloss over Bell's. Personally, I value offense over defense at first as I have always. Curious about people's philosophical flip flop. Why was it relevant last year and not relevant now?


Well, Pedro was historically bad at first.  Maybe Bell would be nearly as bad but he is doing better at Indy than what Pedro did for Bucs last year.  I don't see it as a flip flop at all. 


It's difficult for me to say historically bad when Ryan Howard was in the ball park of that bad just seven years prior.




In 2008 (his worst defensive season) Howard had a .988 fielding percentage. He made 19 errors in 1528 chances. Last year Pedro made 23 errors in 1057 chances for a .978 fielding percentage. Not in the same "ball park" or even the same county.



Pedro was Dick Stuart historically bad. Howard was not. And that is the reason that many of us aren't concerned about Bell. No one should reasonably expect Pedro level defense from Bell or anyone else for that matter for another generation.   




Sorry the difference between bad and "historically" bad simply isnt wide enough to have me convinced. Were talking the difference of one and 100 outcomes. Not to mention Mike Jacobs also had a worse similar UZR/ 100 in 2008. Pedro might be worse, but Bell projects to be really bad as well. Degree of bad really doesn't make a huge difference esp. Over two months.



I think Bell is the better hitter long term. I also think firstbase defense is barely worth noting, but to jump on Pedro and gloss over it with seems silly. If it was something important, it should always be important.




I understand your position and respect it. We can agree to disagree about the possible ramifications of 'bad' vs 'historically bad'.



For myself I find that this year's offense which is suffering due in large part to unexpectedly poor production by Cutch, Kang, and Cervelli is in greater need of a productive bat at 1B than last year's team, especially now that Jaso, after a very good start, has become an offensive liability too.



If it was an acceptable strategy last year to play Pedro at 1B regularly with a much more productive Cutch, Kang, and Cervelli in the lineup then it should be at least as acceptable to give Bell a try at 1B this year. He might not be very good defensively, but will almost certainly be better than Pedro. And the need for what Bell could add to the offense in 2016 is more urgent.

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

Even if Bell is worse than Alvarez on defense, his bat is still needed over Jaso's.



I would take the risk. Personally, I would play Freese, Kang and Rodriguez more too.

[Quail]

4A41494540415A1F196E574F464141004D412E0 wrote: Even if Bell is worse than Alvarez on defense, his bat is still needed over Jaso's.



I would take the risk.  Personally, I would play Freese, Kang and Rodriguez more too.


I agree Dog. It's worth the risk when our season is on the line.

[Wrathchild]

These arguments in favor of Bell replacing Jaso are premised on the belief that the Pirates are actively putting an inferior product on the field by not using readily available assets. Does anyone really believe that? This isn't dumping a bad contract or failing to make a trade. This is simply refusing to promote a better player. I doubt that. Jaso has had the same general value as Alvarez last year according to BR. He has hit less and played better defense. They have both been basically zero value players. So, it's not a matter of Bell playing defense as bad as Pedro. If he plays defense even close to Pedro, he has to hit better than Pedro to be better than Jaso. There would seem to be a reasonable belief that he wouldn't. On this, I'm willing to defer to management thought, as I haven't seen his defense.

[Ecbucs]

4F6A796C707B7071747C180 wrote: These arguments in favor of Bell replacing Jaso are premised on the belief that the Pirates are actively putting an inferior product on the field by not using readily available assets.  Does anyone really believe that? This isn't dumping a bad contract or failing to make a trade. This is simply refusing to promote a better player. I doubt that.  Jaso has had the same general value as Alvarez last year according to BR. He has hit less and played better defense.  They have both been basically zero value players. So, it's not a matter of Bell playing defense as bad as Pedro.  If he plays defense even close to Pedro, he has to hit better than Pedro to be better than Jaso.  There would seem to be a reasonable belief that he wouldn't. On this, I'm willing to defer to management thought, as I haven't seen his defense.


you are quoting Jaso's value for the year, it is below zero since the All Star break. Which imo means there is a fairly good chance that Bell could be better.

[Wrathchild]

240203140212610 wrote: These arguments in favor of Bell replacing Jaso are premised on the belief that the Pirates are actively putting an inferior product on the field by not using readily available assets.  Does anyone really believe that? This isn't dumping a bad contract or failing to make a trade. This is simply refusing to promote a better player. I doubt that.  Jaso has had the same general value as Alvarez last year according to BR. He has hit less and played better defense.  They have both been basically zero value players. So, it's not a matter of Bell playing defense as bad as Pedro.  If he plays defense even close to Pedro, he has to hit better than Pedro to be better than Jaso.  There would seem to be a reasonable belief that he wouldn't. On this, I'm willing to defer to management thought, as I haven't seen his defense.


you are quoting Jaso's value for the year, it is below zero since the All Star break.  Which imo means there is a fairly good chance that Bell could be better.




You can't manage a team in that fashion. Your style would have McCutchen continuing to sit in favor of Joyce. Jaso is hitting way below his norm. Recently, in my opinion, he's been getting unlucky. His at bat bats have looked much better than his results with several lineouts, etc. In any event, without seeing Bell's defense, it's hard to conclude that he would be a clear upgrade and, again, why would the Pirates make such a choice.