6F4E466F444C2B0 wrote: Give it a try. Don't overpay. Not more than 2 years so he does not block one of the kids. Sort of an AJ Burnett deal.
It's the 2 or 3 years where things get sticky for us. It seems NH is usually willing to go 2 with a club option for the 3rd. And then some team comes along and offers a guarantee for the 3rd. Isn't that really what happened with JA Happ. It wasn't that we weren't willing to pay fair market price for him (or very close), it was the length of the contract that got us. Look no further than the Liriano fiasco of this year, that year 3 of the contract is why all the financial flexibility issues arose. We just hate getting stuck with that third year.
Maybe Nova's recent success won't translate to a huge increase in his market value. But then look at the list of FA pitching available and it is ug-ly. I'd love to get him for 2, but in this market where everyone seems willing to overpay for mediocre starting pitching, I'm not sure that 2 years will be enough...again.
8/28 Game Thread - Nova v the House of Horrors
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UtahPirate
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SammyKhalifa
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8/28 Game Thread - Nova v the House of Horrors
0021343D053C27342130550 wrote: Give it a try. Don't overpay. Not more than 2 years so he does not block one of the kids. Sort of an AJ Burnett deal.
Know what you're saying, but at the same time I don't know his third year will be as costly as Liriano's (though your point about the weak FA crop is well taken).
It's the 2 or 3 years where things get sticky for us. It seems NH is usually willing to go 2 with a club option for the 3rd. And then some team comes along and offers a guarantee for the 3rd. Isn't that really what happened with JA Happ. It wasn't that we weren't willing to pay fair market price for him (or very close), it was the length of the contract that got us. Look no further than the Liriano fiasco of this year, that year 3 of the contract is why all the financial flexibility issues arose. We just hate getting stuck with that third year.
Maybe Nova's recent success won't translate to a huge increase in his market value. But then look at the list of FA pitching available and it is ug-ly. I'd love to get him for 2, but in this market where everyone seems willing to overpay for mediocre starting pitching, I'm not sure that 2 years will be enough...again.
Know what you're saying, but at the same time I don't know his third year will be as costly as Liriano's (though your point about the weak FA crop is well taken).
It's the 2 or 3 years where things get sticky for us. It seems NH is usually willing to go 2 with a club option for the 3rd. And then some team comes along and offers a guarantee for the 3rd. Isn't that really what happened with JA Happ. It wasn't that we weren't willing to pay fair market price for him (or very close), it was the length of the contract that got us. Look no further than the Liriano fiasco of this year, that year 3 of the contract is why all the financial flexibility issues arose. We just hate getting stuck with that third year.
Maybe Nova's recent success won't translate to a huge increase in his market value. But then look at the list of FA pitching available and it is ug-ly. I'd love to get him for 2, but in this market where everyone seems willing to overpay for mediocre starting pitching, I'm not sure that 2 years will be enough...again.
8/28 Game Thread - Nova v the House of Horrors
6A5854544072515855505F58390 wrote: Give it a try. Don't overpay. Not more than 2 years so he does not block one of the kids. Sort of an AJ Burnett deal.
Know what you're saying, but at the same time I don't know his third year will be as costly as Liriano's (though your point about the weak FA crop is well taken).
It's the 2 or 3 years where things get sticky for us. It seems NH is usually willing to go 2 with a club option for the 3rd. And then some team comes along and offers a guarantee for the 3rd. Isn't that really what happened with JA Happ. It wasn't that we weren't willing to pay fair market price for him (or very close), it was the length of the contract that got us. Look no further than the Liriano fiasco of this year, that year 3 of the contract is why all the financial flexibility issues arose. We just hate getting stuck with that third year.
Maybe Nova's recent success won't translate to a huge increase in his market value. But then look at the list of FA pitching available and it is ug-ly. I'd love to get him for 2, but in this market where everyone seems willing to overpay for mediocre starting pitching, I'm not sure that 2 years will be enough...again.
I am skeptical of Nova, this is the best stretch he has ever had, he doesn't have great stuff, he is seeing these teams for first time. If he is able to pitch great for rest of season I could see signing him but right now I think it is too early. AS NH said getting him out of AL east could help and maybe much of his success is pitching to batters that don't have a lot of experience with him. Lets see if he can pitch a few more good games this year. We know there is no way his walk rate is going to stay this low.
Know what you're saying, but at the same time I don't know his third year will be as costly as Liriano's (though your point about the weak FA crop is well taken).
It's the 2 or 3 years where things get sticky for us. It seems NH is usually willing to go 2 with a club option for the 3rd. And then some team comes along and offers a guarantee for the 3rd. Isn't that really what happened with JA Happ. It wasn't that we weren't willing to pay fair market price for him (or very close), it was the length of the contract that got us. Look no further than the Liriano fiasco of this year, that year 3 of the contract is why all the financial flexibility issues arose. We just hate getting stuck with that third year.
Maybe Nova's recent success won't translate to a huge increase in his market value. But then look at the list of FA pitching available and it is ug-ly. I'd love to get him for 2, but in this market where everyone seems willing to overpay for mediocre starting pitching, I'm not sure that 2 years will be enough...again.
I am skeptical of Nova, this is the best stretch he has ever had, he doesn't have great stuff, he is seeing these teams for first time. If he is able to pitch great for rest of season I could see signing him but right now I think it is too early. AS NH said getting him out of AL east could help and maybe much of his success is pitching to batters that don't have a lot of experience with him. Lets see if he can pitch a few more good games this year. We know there is no way his walk rate is going to stay this low.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
8/28 Game Thread - Nova v the House of Horrors
What makes Nova different than Happ, for whom everyone wanted back?
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SammyKhalifa
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8/28 Game Thread - Nova v the House of Horrors
Well Happ came with a little better of a history. I was leery of the three year deal (which might still be an issue, we'll see) for Happ. Nova is younger, though. I don't know that I'd offer a deal right this moment, but it it might be the time to strike (before he hits FA). It could end up being a mistake long term but IMO not a fatal one.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
8/28 Game Thread - Nova v the House of Horrors
31030F0F1B290A030E0B0403620 wrote: Well Happ came with a little better of a history. I was leery of the three year deal (which might still be an issue, we'll see) for Happ. Nova is younger, though. I don't know that I'd offer a deal right this moment, but it it might be the time to strike (before he hits FA). It could end up being a mistake long term but IMO not a fatal one.
I agree.
Happ had a bad history or at least average to below average. Happ is also older.
I don't know what the market will be for Nova. The Pirates need to get in his head and how great it is here in Pittsburgh. maybe a 3 year $25 million can win him over? I don't know. Do a front loaded contract? Not sure why players don't want those type of deals.
I agree.
Happ had a bad history or at least average to below average. Happ is also older.
I don't know what the market will be for Nova. The Pirates need to get in his head and how great it is here in Pittsburgh. maybe a 3 year $25 million can win him over? I don't know. Do a front loaded contract? Not sure why players don't want those type of deals.
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UtahPirate
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8/28 Game Thread - Nova v the House of Horrors
Nova had a pretty good run between 2011 to 2013 before TJ in 2014. He's now two full years removed from that. Maybe he's got more going for him than I thought at first glance.
Interesting that he seemed to be Plan B after we failed to get Matt Moore as they were both guys two years removed from TJ this summer. Definitely the less sexy option... But a better history than I was aware of when the trade was made. Three years, I don't know. But he could sure solidify things for next year if he keeps pitching near his current level.
Interesting that he seemed to be Plan B after we failed to get Matt Moore as they were both guys two years removed from TJ this summer. Definitely the less sexy option... But a better history than I was aware of when the trade was made. Three years, I don't know. But he could sure solidify things for next year if he keeps pitching near his current level.
8/28 Game Thread - Nova v the House of Horrors
1637222B132A31223726430 wrote: Nova had a pretty good run between 2011 to 2013 before TJ in 2014. He's now two years full years removed from that. Maybe he's got more going for him than I thought at first glance.
Interesting that he seemed to be Plan B after we failed to get Matt Moore as they were both guys two years removed from TJ this summer. Definitely the less sexy option... But a better history than I was aware of when the trade was made. Three years, I don't know. But he could sure solidify things for next year if he keeps pitching near his current level.
He had a good record in 2012 but was basically crushed. 5.02 ERA, ten hits per nine innings, 28 homers in 170 innings. If he could repeat what he did in 2011 and 2013 he would be a useful pitcher.
Interesting that he seemed to be Plan B after we failed to get Matt Moore as they were both guys two years removed from TJ this summer. Definitely the less sexy option... But a better history than I was aware of when the trade was made. Three years, I don't know. But he could sure solidify things for next year if he keeps pitching near his current level.
He had a good record in 2012 but was basically crushed. 5.02 ERA, ten hits per nine innings, 28 homers in 170 innings. If he could repeat what he did in 2011 and 2013 he would be a useful pitcher.
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SammyKhalifa
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8/28 Game Thread - Nova v the House of Horrors
Well yeah, he's not perfect but that's also why he's not going to get $25MM a year.
8/28 Game Thread - Nova v the House of Horrors
41737F7F6B597A737E7B7473120 wrote: Well yeah, he's not perfect but that's also why he's not going to get $25MM a year.
what I'm worried about is that he could be very John Niese like both in salary and performance.
what I'm worried about is that he could be very John Niese like both in salary and performance.