436E63727564733330010 wrote: Exactly why any depth strategy as it being put forth is flawed. Depth is there for injuries or underperformance. If you're using your depth, something negative has happened. Either someone is hurt and you immediately use the next man up, or someone has pitched poorly for a decently long stretch and you've dropped games because of it.
It's critical to have. But if depth is used because of underperformance, you're dropping games.
"Oh well if he stinks we will just give so-and-so a try" that's a painful, painful strategy.
We've got 162 and they all count the same. Must finish ahead of STL if you want a playoff spot. Good luck with that without another starter. need 1 more. just a run-of-the-mill starter. THEN you can rely on the depth list for #5 and the inevitable injuries and you're not dropping a bunch of games.
I agree with that. However, Kuhl put up very good AA and AAA numbers and was pretty impressive for a rookie last year. IMHO, he will be better than any reclamation starter they can acquire and deserves a shot as 4 or 5.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... &year=2016
So I think we're only looking for 1 more. We know they want Hutchison to justify the Liriano/Ramirez/McGwire trade so he'll be given every chance to make the rotation in ST. So will Glasnow. If either of them pans out and Kuhl builds upon a good 2016 the rotation should be better then last year and maybe even pretty good. We know this FO is not going to obtain a proven, quality pitcher if he comes with a large salary. But even as it stands, I'm not ready to write off this rotation. I think worst case scenario is that they get another Vogelsong type in ST for #5. But there's a reasonable chance that won't be necessary.
I also believe that Kuhl will be a solid member of the starting 5. If Glasnow is not ready then I prefer to go with Brault as our lone Left hander rather than seeing Hutchinson in the starting rotation.
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Wouldn't it make some sense to see who does well in Spring Training? And as to Hutchison, he's had an off-season to work on whatever Searage has suggested for him. It might be interesting to see how well that advice has worked before just tossing him aside.
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I would not be opposed to adding Jason Hammel. The longer he sits out there maybe he could be had on a one year deal.
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SammyKhalifa
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654342554353200 wrote: Exactly why any depth strategy as it being put forth is flawed. Depth is there for injuries or underperformance. If you're using your depth, something negative has happened. Either someone is hurt and you immediately use the next man up, or someone has pitched poorly for a decently long stretch and you've dropped games because of it.
It's critical to have. But if depth is used because of underperformance, you're dropping games.
"Oh well if he stinks we will just give so-and-so a try" that's a painful, painful strategy.
We've got 162 and they all count the same. Must finish ahead of STL if you want a playoff spot. Good luck with that without another starter. need 1 more. just a run-of-the-mill starter. THEN you can rely on the depth list for #5 and the inevitable injuries and you're not dropping a bunch of games.
I agree with that. However, Kuhl put up very good AA and AAA numbers and was pretty impressive for a rookie last year. IMHO, he will be better than any reclamation starter they can acquire and deserves a shot as 4 or 5.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... &year=2016
So I think we're only looking for 1 more. We know they want Hutchison to justify the Liriano/Ramirez/McGwire trade so he'll be given every chance to make the rotation in ST. So will Glasnow. If either of them pans out and Kuhl builds upon a good 2016 the rotation should be better then last year and maybe even pretty good. We know this FO is not going to obtain a proven, quality pitcher if he comes with a large salary. But even as it stands, I'm not ready to write off this rotation. I think worst case scenario is that they get another Vogelsong type in ST for #5. But there's a reasonable chance that won't be necessary.
This staff those is extremely vulnerable if Cole, Taillon or Nova get injured or under perform. I would like to have a little more margin for error. I do think Kuhl could be real deal and that he can do better than what Morton or Locke ever did.
Over the long season starting pitching can make or break a team and the Pirates are borderline with their rotation. To contend they need a lot of things to go right.
Yeah, if you just starting the season and you're already hoping on the guys we're talking about here, you're just asking for last year all over again.
It's critical to have. But if depth is used because of underperformance, you're dropping games.
"Oh well if he stinks we will just give so-and-so a try" that's a painful, painful strategy.
We've got 162 and they all count the same. Must finish ahead of STL if you want a playoff spot. Good luck with that without another starter. need 1 more. just a run-of-the-mill starter. THEN you can rely on the depth list for #5 and the inevitable injuries and you're not dropping a bunch of games.
I agree with that. However, Kuhl put up very good AA and AAA numbers and was pretty impressive for a rookie last year. IMHO, he will be better than any reclamation starter they can acquire and deserves a shot as 4 or 5.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... &year=2016
So I think we're only looking for 1 more. We know they want Hutchison to justify the Liriano/Ramirez/McGwire trade so he'll be given every chance to make the rotation in ST. So will Glasnow. If either of them pans out and Kuhl builds upon a good 2016 the rotation should be better then last year and maybe even pretty good. We know this FO is not going to obtain a proven, quality pitcher if he comes with a large salary. But even as it stands, I'm not ready to write off this rotation. I think worst case scenario is that they get another Vogelsong type in ST for #5. But there's a reasonable chance that won't be necessary.
This staff those is extremely vulnerable if Cole, Taillon or Nova get injured or under perform. I would like to have a little more margin for error. I do think Kuhl could be real deal and that he can do better than what Morton or Locke ever did.
Over the long season starting pitching can make or break a team and the Pirates are borderline with their rotation. To contend they need a lot of things to go right.
Yeah, if you just starting the season and you're already hoping on the guys we're talking about here, you're just asking for last year all over again.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
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It's not hoping, it pointing out who can actually help and asking how good they are for a few starts.
If any team loses their top two guys, they will be in trouble. Not just the 2016 Pirates. The 2015 Pirates would have failed too if Cole and Liriano didn't perform.
If any team loses their top two guys, they will be in trouble. Not just the 2016 Pirates. The 2015 Pirates would have failed too if Cole and Liriano didn't perform.
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rucker59@gmail.com
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7E58594E58483B0 wrote: I don't agree with Glasnow making or breaking the 2017 season either. He is a special talent, but he isn't as polished as Cole or Taillon when they came up. He eventually can be better than them, but he still has some learning and needs to get more polished.
A healthy Cole can be very good. We have seen this before. I don't get into the labeling of starters as much as others. Its nice to have that "ace" but every team in baseball would take Cole in their rotation. Every team.
I don't think it is fans putting the pressure on Glasnow but it is saying if the Bucs don't have strong starting pitching then the season is not going to be successful. the way it lines up now, the Bucs are counting on Kuhl and Glasnow (or someone else from the list) to be at least average major league starters in 2017.
If anything, the team is putting pressure on these guys.
This is exactly what I meant. If Glasnow were to "breakout" the Pirates are suddenly a team with significant potential. If he can't pitch in the big leagues the Pirates are going to struggle. This team can be very very good if Glasnow reaches toward potential, very very average if he doesn't.
A healthy Cole can be very good. We have seen this before. I don't get into the labeling of starters as much as others. Its nice to have that "ace" but every team in baseball would take Cole in their rotation. Every team.
I don't think it is fans putting the pressure on Glasnow but it is saying if the Bucs don't have strong starting pitching then the season is not going to be successful. the way it lines up now, the Bucs are counting on Kuhl and Glasnow (or someone else from the list) to be at least average major league starters in 2017.
If anything, the team is putting pressure on these guys.
This is exactly what I meant. If Glasnow were to "breakout" the Pirates are suddenly a team with significant potential. If he can't pitch in the big leagues the Pirates are going to struggle. This team can be very very good if Glasnow reaches toward potential, very very average if he doesn't.
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404751595740070B72555F535B5E1C515D5F320 wrote: I don't agree with Glasnow making or breaking the 2017 season either. He is a special talent, but he isn't as polished as Cole or Taillon when they came up. He eventually can be better than them, but he still has some learning and needs to get more polished.
A healthy Cole can be very good. We have seen this before. I don't get into the labeling of starters as much as others. Its nice to have that "ace" but every team in baseball would take Cole in their rotation. Every team.
I don't think it is fans putting the pressure on Glasnow but it is saying if the Bucs don't have strong starting pitching then the season is not going to be successful. the way it lines up now, the Bucs are counting on Kuhl and Glasnow (or someone else from the list) to be at least average major league starters in 2017.
If anything, the team is putting pressure on these guys.
This is exactly what I meant. If Glasnow were to "breakout" the Pirates are suddenly a team with significant potential. If he can't pitch in the big leagues the Pirates are going to struggle. This team can be very very good if Glasnow reaches toward potential, very very average if he doesn't.
will say one thing in team's favor about this. They were right about Taillon being able to well last year so maybe they are pretty certain that Glasnow or Hutchison can come through in 2017. I think NH's head should be on the line though on how 2017 plays out. If it is another 2016 his seat (along with others) should be very hot.
A healthy Cole can be very good. We have seen this before. I don't get into the labeling of starters as much as others. Its nice to have that "ace" but every team in baseball would take Cole in their rotation. Every team.
I don't think it is fans putting the pressure on Glasnow but it is saying if the Bucs don't have strong starting pitching then the season is not going to be successful. the way it lines up now, the Bucs are counting on Kuhl and Glasnow (or someone else from the list) to be at least average major league starters in 2017.
If anything, the team is putting pressure on these guys.
This is exactly what I meant. If Glasnow were to "breakout" the Pirates are suddenly a team with significant potential. If he can't pitch in the big leagues the Pirates are going to struggle. This team can be very very good if Glasnow reaches toward potential, very very average if he doesn't.
will say one thing in team's favor about this. They were right about Taillon being able to well last year so maybe they are pretty certain that Glasnow or Hutchison can come through in 2017. I think NH's head should be on the line though on how 2017 plays out. If it is another 2016 his seat (along with others) should be very hot.
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SammyKhalifa
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060D05090C0D165355221B030A0D0D4C010D620 wrote: It's not hoping, it pointing out who can actually help and asking how good they are for a few starts.
If any team loses their top two guys, they will be in trouble. Not just the 2016 Pirates. The 2015 Pirates would have failed too if Cole and Liriano didn't perform.
Of course they would be, but not nearly as in trouble as they are if 40% of their rotation is built on dreams and wishes. Those are the kinds of guys that are nice to have as experiments and contingency plans, but shouldn't be a #1 option.
The 2015 team got lucky. What did they use, like 7 SP all year? You shouldn't base your plan on being lucky either.
If any team loses their top two guys, they will be in trouble. Not just the 2016 Pirates. The 2015 Pirates would have failed too if Cole and Liriano didn't perform.
Of course they would be, but not nearly as in trouble as they are if 40% of their rotation is built on dreams and wishes. Those are the kinds of guys that are nice to have as experiments and contingency plans, but shouldn't be a #1 option.
The 2015 team got lucky. What did they use, like 7 SP all year? You shouldn't base your plan on being lucky either.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Starting Pitching Depth
Lucky? I love how when the Pirates were successful the term "lucky" is being used. Why isn't it a well thought out plan.
Here is a breakdown of the three playoff seasons and the amount of starters used:
2013 - 12
2014 - 8
2015 - 8
The point of this thread was asking what people thought of the individual pitchers and how good can they be since they don't get the hype. We know about Glasnow, but not much attention for the others. Anyone on that list can shine through too.
For example, I didn't know anything about Chad Kuhl before last year. I was impressed with him as a 23 year old rookie. The Pirates won nine of the fourteen games he started. He only got rocked twice (both by the Cubs) and the Pirates actually won one of those games too.
Here is a breakdown of the three playoff seasons and the amount of starters used:
2013 - 12
2014 - 8
2015 - 8
The point of this thread was asking what people thought of the individual pitchers and how good can they be since they don't get the hype. We know about Glasnow, but not much attention for the others. Anyone on that list can shine through too.
For example, I didn't know anything about Chad Kuhl before last year. I was impressed with him as a 23 year old rookie. The Pirates won nine of the fourteen games he started. He only got rocked twice (both by the Cubs) and the Pirates actually won one of those games too.