OnlyBucs

fjk090852-7 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:39 pm I know there are members of this site who feel Ben Cherington has not graded well as the Pirates GM. Recently I started thinking about the work he has done since he was hired in 2019. I agree that a trade of Josh Bell was a bust. Probably the Marte trade could have brought back another player as good as Peguero. The trades that brought back Bednar, Suwinski, Endy,and Oviedo were good moves. By having an owner who watches his money, Ben has had some good free agent signings such as Tyler Anderson, Jose Quintana, Vince Velasquez,( unfortunately he got injured) now Chapman and Perez.
The amateur drafts have brought in players like Jones, Johnson, Davis, Skenes, Chandler, as well as Solometo just to name a few. Yes one could say they were high draft picks how could you go wrong, but just think back of some previous drafts in which the Pirates had high draft choices but the players were not very good. The Front Office has added some new people during the current regime.
For me I don’t know enough about the players they have signed during the International Draft so I cannot say if we have been successful or not. In my opinion I feel Ben has done a good job since he arrived and I would give him B or B- for his work. I am sure it is very difficult to work when the owner doesn’t want to open the checkbook.

Doc wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:21 pm

fjk090852-7 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:39 pm I know there are members of this site who feel Ben Cherington has not graded well as the Pirates GM. Recently I started thinking about the work he has done since he was hired in 2019. I agree that a trade of Josh Bell was a bust. Probably the Marte trade could have brought back another player as good as Peguero. The trades that brought back Bednar, Suwinski, Endy,and Oviedo were good moves. By having an owner who watches his money, Ben has had some good free agent signings such as Tyler Anderson, Jose Quintana, Vince Velasquez,( unfortunately he got injured) now Chapman and Perez.
The amateur drafts have brought in players like Jones, Johnson, Davis, Skenes, Chandler, as well as Solometo just to name a few. Yes one could say they were high draft picks how could you go wrong, but just think back of some previous drafts in which the Pirates had high draft choices but the players were not very good. The Front Office has added some new people during the current regime.
For me I don’t know enough about the players they have signed during the International Draft so I cannot say if we have been successful or not. In my opinion I feel Ben has done a good job since he arrived and I would give him B or B- for his work. I am sure it is very difficult to work when the owner doesn’t want to open the checkbook.

I’ve always believed that 2024 was the season in which Cherington’s work needed to begin to pay dividends. (Losing a year to Covid right when he was hired worked against him, of course.) Last year, we started to see the arrival of young players he’s acquired. They got their introduction to Major League Baseball and now need to prove they’re good enough to stay and also get better. More are coming right behind them. This is the year when we’ll see if BC was the right man.

Nutting will always be a problem, but an organization can succeed in spite of a stingy owner or a small market. Tampa has shown time and again it’s possible to be competitive through the draft and deft trading. Oakland also did it for quite some time up until recently. But it’s nearly impossible to compete as a GM in Pittsburgh when the owner’s goal is different from nearly everyone else’s in the organization.

There are two roadblocks to winning in Pittsburgh: baseball’s refusal to place all 30 teams on equal footing regarding payroll (to me, the most important issue), and the owner. The significance of the two are almost insurmountable. That’s why I no longer have any expectations of the Pirates ever winning another World Series again. I hate myself for lowering my expectations like that. It’s as if Nutting has won.

Bobster wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 7:51 pm

Doc wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:21 pm

fjk090852-7 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:39 pm I know there are members of this site who feel Ben Cherington has not graded well as the Pirates GM. Recently I started thinking about the work he has done since he was hired in 2019. I agree that a trade of Josh Bell was a bust. Probably the Marte trade could have brought back another player as good as Peguero. The trades that brought back Bednar, Suwinski, Endy,and Oviedo were good moves. By having an owner who watches his money, Ben has had some good free agent signings such as Tyler Anderson, Jose Quintana, Vince Velasquez,( unfortunately he got injured) now Chapman and Perez.
The amateur drafts have brought in players like Jones, Johnson, Davis, Skenes, Chandler, as well as Solometo just to name a few. Yes one could say they were high draft picks how could you go wrong, but just think back of some previous drafts in which the Pirates had high draft choices but the players were not very good. The Front Office has added some new people during the current regime.
For me I don’t know enough about the players they have signed during the International Draft so I cannot say if we have been successful or not. In my opinion I feel Ben has done a good job since he arrived and I would give him B or B- for his work. I am sure it is very difficult to work when the owner doesn’t want to open the checkbook.

I’ve always believed that 2024 was the season in which Cherington’s work needed to begin to pay dividends. (Losing a year to Covid right when he was hired worked against him, of course.) Last year, we started to see the arrival of young players he’s acquired. They got their introduction to Major League Baseball and now need to prove they’re good enough to stay and also get better. More are coming right behind them. This is the year when we’ll see if BC was the right man.

Nutting will always be a problem, but an organization can succeed in spite of a stingy owner or a small market. Tampa has shown time and again it’s possible to be competitive through the draft and deft trading. Oakland also did it for quite some time up until recently. But it’s nearly impossible to compete as a GM in Pittsburgh when the owner’s goal is different from nearly everyone else’s in the organization.

There are two roadblocks to winning in Pittsburgh: baseball’s refusal to place all 30 teams on equal footing regarding payroll (to me, the most important issue), and the owner. The significance of the two are almost insurmountable. That’s why I no longer have any expectations of the Pirates ever winning another World Series again. I hate myself for lowering my expectations like that. It’s as if Nutting has won.

I agree Doc. I have no confidence that the Pirates will ever seriously compete for a championship under Nutting. It's hard enough to compete on an equal playing field, much less when the roster is filled out with rookies and dumpster dives.

I don't envy Cherington. He has little money to work with. He rarely keeps players before free agency takes them. But there have been recent extensions for Reynolds, Hayes and Keller. A step in the right direction. Otherwise, their productive players get traded before they can walk as FAs. But Cherington can't accept other productive players in exchange because they come with salaries Nutting won't pay. So Cherington can only accept prospects. But teams won't give up their top prospects. So he has to try to identify lower level prospects who are several years away from MLB who haven't progressed to the point where their organization has made them untouchable. So it's not unusual for the Pirates to trade productive players for 18- or 19-year-olds in rookie leagues or A-ball and then hope for the best. Cherington has to draft well. But that's not an exact science. And then those players have to be developed for MLB. Compare all that to the big market teams who simply buy or trade for a superstar to fill a need.

So now we need to see if Cherington's players can be developed into quality MLB players. Priester and Contrera don't look good. Mlodzinski was a 1st round pick turned into a good reliever when they need starters. Davis is having a good spring but they didn't know what to do with him last year and only an injury to Grandal is giving Davis a chance to shine this spring. Maybe Ortiz can contribute. In general, I have not been impressed with Cherington's minor league development or his priority for resting players at the MLB level. Lineups have no continuity or stability. Shelton does not appear to be a good manager and even the 3B coach is problematic. To a large degree, Cherington's hands are tied by Nutting. It's going to take a very exceptional GM to make the Pirates into legit contenders. So far, Cherington has not been exceptional.

Surgnbuck wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:58 pm As far as drafted players by Cherington, keep in mind 2021 was the first possible season to see them in the big. Gonzales, Mlodzinski, and Jared Jones were 2020 picks. They're part of the mix in 2024. That was a pretty solid first draft with only 5 rounds.

2021 we have Davis, along with Solometo and Chandler near ready, again another solid class.

2022 we are already seeing Johnson, Batco, and Brannigan on their top prospect lists.

So it seems BC is doing well with the top 1-4 picks. I'd like to see a good number of lower picks to show at some point.

Most important, they are moving up pretty quickly if they show skill.

So far, I give BC a solid B, only because his first trades have yet to show much.

fjk090852-7 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 6:00 pm I had to locate this former post regarding Ben Cherington, because this week has been a good week for him and the Pirates. I like the recent player acquisitions which the Pirates have made. De La Cruz and Kiner-Falefa sends a positive sign to the clubhouse. They know that reinforcements are coming in to help them going down the stretch. I am sure there may be some who feel a player like Chisholm would have been better, but we will never know what the Marlins wanted the Pirates to give in this trade. None of the trades the Pirates made included any player in their top 10 Prospect list. Personally, I liked Charles McAdoo , but in order to acquire a player, you must bend a little. Today the Pirates are signing their #1 Draft choice Konnor Griffin who supposedly is a very good prospect. Many of the outside publications have given the Pirates a high grade for this year's draft. The Pirates have a new Scouting Director this year who Ben C. brought on board this past offseason maybe that is why the high grade.
There are additions he has made behind the scenes which in my opinion has helped this organization get better. Personally, we may have to review our hitting coaches throughout the System this offseason to see if we can further develop hitters. No GM is going to hit.1000 with all the moves, but you hope with the help of his staff you get more hits, than misses. I think we are in position to play meaningful games the remainder of this season.