Ben Cherington

[Quail]

416C61707766713132030 wrote: From this morning's Athletic:



When Ben Cherington was asked "What are the Pirates' needs for 2020?" this was his response:



“I’d like to add some pitching depth, both (in the bullpen and rotation). We’d still like to add some outfield depth. It could be major league or it could be nonroster. Beyond that, probably more opportunistic — what opportunities are left? We have players to start a season. We can have an Opening Day roster right now, but we’d like to add some depth in some areas and continue to look for opportunities that help the Pirates in the short and long term.”



Interestingly, no mention of adding a catcher.
He's quoted in the Trib today as saying, “We expect we’d continue to add to the catching group in some way between now and spring training.”



Note that he didn't say he was looking for a starting catcher; only someone to add "in some way" to the mix. That's consistent with his comments about looking for "depth in some areas." It's looking like Stallings starting, Maile as #2 and Murphy as AAA depth. Any of them could fail so another catcher in AAA would be a good idea.


Thanks Bobster. I hadn't seen BC's comment in the Trib. I was surprised by the fact that he didn't specifically mention catching as a "need" in the quote from The Athletic, but he was probably asked some form of that question a dozen times last night, and happened to omit it in that response. Makes more sense to me now.

[WildwoodDave]

I will come on here and heap praise. I guess there is a first time for everything

[fjk090852-7]

I know there are members of this site who feel Ben Cherington has not graded well as the Pirates GM. Recently I started thinking about the work he has done since he was hired in 2019. I agree that a trade of Josh Bell was a bust. Probably the Marte trade could have brought back another player as good as Peguero. The trades that brought back Bednar, Suwinski, Endy,and Oviedo were good moves. By having an owner who watches his money, Ben has had some good free agent signings such as Tyler Anderson, Jose Quintana, Vince Velasquez,( unfortunately he got injured) now Chapman and Perez.
The amateur drafts have brought in players like Jones, Johnson, Davis, Skenes, Chandler, as well as Solometo just to name a few. Yes one could say they were high draft picks how could you go wrong, but just think back of some previous drafts in which the Pirates had high draft choices but the players were not very good. The Front Office has added some new people during the current regime.
For me I don’t know enough about the players they have signed during the International Draft so I cannot say if we have been successful or not. In my opinion I feel Ben has done a good job since he arrived and I would give him B or B- for his work. I am sure it is very difficult to work when the owner doesn’t want to open the checkbook.

[Doc]

I know there are members of this site who feel Ben Cherington has not graded well as the Pirates GM. Recently I started thinking about the work he has done since he was hired in 2019. I agree that a trade of Josh Bell was a bust. Probably the Marte trade could have brought back another player as good as Peguero. The trades that brought back Bednar, Suwinski, Endy,and Oviedo were good moves. By having an owner who watches his money, Ben has had some good free agent signings such as Tyler Anderson, Jose Quintana, Vince Velasquez,( unfortunately he got injured) now Chapman and Perez.
The amateur drafts have brought in players like Jones, Johnson, Davis, Skenes, Chandler, as well as Solometo just to name a few. Yes one could say they were high draft picks how could you go wrong, but just think back of some previous drafts in which the Pirates had high draft choices but the players were not very good. The Front Office has added some new people during the current regime.
For me I don’t know enough about the players they have signed during the International Draft so I cannot say if we have been successful or not. In my opinion I feel Ben has done a good job since he arrived and I would give him B or B- for his work. I am sure it is very difficult to work when the owner doesn’t want to open the checkbook.

I’ve always believed that 2024 was the season in which Cherington’s work needed to begin to pay dividends. (Losing a year to Covid right when he was hired worked against him, of course.) Last year, we started to see the arrival of young players he’s acquired. They got their introduction to Major League Baseball and now need to prove they’re good enough to stay and also get better. More are coming right behind them. This is the year when we’ll see if BC was the right man.

Nutting will always be a problem, but an organization can succeed in spite of a stingy owner or a small market. Tampa has shown time and again it’s possible to be competitive through the draft and deft trading. Oakland also did it for quite some time up until recently. But it’s nearly impossible to compete as a GM in Pittsburgh when the owner’s goal is different from nearly everyone else’s in the organization.

There are two roadblocks to winning in Pittsburgh: baseball’s refusal to place all 30 teams on equal footing regarding payroll (to me, the most important issue), and the owner. The significance of the two are almost insurmountable. That’s why I no longer have any expectations of the Pirates ever winning another World Series again. I hate myself for lowering my expectations like that. It’s as if Nutting has won.

[Bobster]

I know there are members of this site who feel Ben Cherington has not graded well as the Pirates GM. Recently I started thinking about the work he has done since he was hired in 2019. I agree that a trade of Josh Bell was a bust. Probably the Marte trade could have brought back another player as good as Peguero. The trades that brought back Bednar, Suwinski, Endy,and Oviedo were good moves. By having an owner who watches his money, Ben has had some good free agent signings such as Tyler Anderson, Jose Quintana, Vince Velasquez,( unfortunately he got injured) now Chapman and Perez.
The amateur drafts have brought in players like Jones, Johnson, Davis, Skenes, Chandler, as well as Solometo just to name a few. Yes one could say they were high draft picks how could you go wrong, but just think back of some previous drafts in which the Pirates had high draft choices but the players were not very good. The Front Office has added some new people during the current regime.
For me I don’t know enough about the players they have signed during the International Draft so I cannot say if we have been successful or not. In my opinion I feel Ben has done a good job since he arrived and I would give him B or B- for his work. I am sure it is very difficult to work when the owner doesn’t want to open the checkbook.

I’ve always believed that 2024 was the season in which Cherington’s work needed to begin to pay dividends. (Losing a year to Covid right when he was hired worked against him, of course.) Last year, we started to see the arrival of young players he’s acquired. They got their introduction to Major League Baseball and now need to prove they’re good enough to stay and also get better. More are coming right behind them. This is the year when we’ll see if BC was the right man.

Nutting will always be a problem, but an organization can succeed in spite of a stingy owner or a small market. Tampa has shown time and again it’s possible to be competitive through the draft and deft trading. Oakland also did it for quite some time up until recently. But it’s nearly impossible to compete as a GM in Pittsburgh when the owner’s goal is different from nearly everyone else’s in the organization.

There are two roadblocks to winning in Pittsburgh: baseball’s refusal to place all 30 teams on equal footing regarding payroll (to me, the most important issue), and the owner. The significance of the two are almost insurmountable. That’s why I no longer have any expectations of the Pirates ever winning another World Series again. I hate myself for lowering my expectations like that. It’s as if Nutting has won.

I agree Doc. I have no confidence that the Pirates will ever seriously compete for a championship under Nutting. It's hard enough to compete on an equal playing field, much less when the roster is filled out with rookies and dumpster dives.

I don't envy Cherington. He has little money to work with. He rarely keeps players before free agency takes them. But there have been recent extensions for Reynolds, Hayes and Keller. A step in the right direction. Otherwise, their productive players get traded before they can walk as FAs. But Cherington can't accept other productive players in exchange because they come with salaries Nutting won't pay. So Cherington can only accept prospects. But teams won't give up their top prospects. So he has to try to identify lower level prospects who are several years away from MLB who haven't progressed to the point where their organization has made them untouchable. So it's not unusual for the Pirates to trade productive players for 18- or 19-year-olds in rookie leagues or A-ball and then hope for the best. Cherington has to draft well. But that's not an exact science. And then those players have to be developed for MLB. Compare all that to the big market teams who simply buy or trade for a superstar to fill a need.

So now we need to see if Cherington's players can be developed into quality MLB players. Priester and Contrera don't look good. Mlodzinski was a 1st round pick turned into a good reliever when they need starters. Davis is having a good spring but they didn't know what to do with him last year and only an injury to Grandal is giving Davis a chance to shine this spring. Maybe Ortiz can contribute. In general, I have not been impressed with Cherington's minor league development or his priority for resting players at the MLB level. Lineups have no continuity or stability. Shelton does not appear to be a good manager and even the 3B coach is problematic. To a large degree, Cherington's hands are tied by Nutting. It's going to take a very exceptional GM to make the Pirates into legit contenders. So far, Cherington has not been exceptional.

[Doc]

I know there are members of this site who feel Ben Cherington has not graded well as the Pirates GM. Recently I started thinking about the work he has done since he was hired in 2019. I agree that a trade of Josh Bell was a bust. Probably the Marte trade could have brought back another player as good as Peguero. The trades that brought back Bednar, Suwinski, Endy,and Oviedo were good moves. By having an owner who watches his money, Ben has had some good free agent signings such as Tyler Anderson, Jose Quintana, Vince Velasquez,( unfortunately he got injured) now Chapman and Perez.
The amateur drafts have brought in players like Jones, Johnson, Davis, Skenes, Chandler, as well as Solometo just to name a few. Yes one could say they were high draft picks how could you go wrong, but just think back of some previous drafts in which the Pirates had high draft choices but the players were not very good. The Front Office has added some new people during the current regime.
For me I don’t know enough about the players they have signed during the International Draft so I cannot say if we have been successful or not. In my opinion I feel Ben has done a good job since he arrived and I would give him B or B- for his work. I am sure it is very difficult to work when the owner doesn’t want to open the checkbook.

I’ve always believed that 2024 was the season in which Cherington’s work needed to begin to pay dividends. (Losing a year to Covid right when he was hired worked against him, of course.) Last year, we started to see the arrival of young players he’s acquired. They got their introduction to Major League Baseball and now need to prove they’re good enough to stay and also get better. More are coming right behind them. This is the year when we’ll see if BC was the right man.

Nutting will always be a problem, but an organization can succeed in spite of a stingy owner or a small market. Tampa has shown time and again it’s possible to be competitive through the draft and deft trading. Oakland also did it for quite some time up until recently. But it’s nearly impossible to compete as a GM in Pittsburgh when the owner’s goal is different from nearly everyone else’s in the organization.

There are two roadblocks to winning in Pittsburgh: baseball’s refusal to place all 30 teams on equal footing regarding payroll (to me, the most important issue), and the owner. The significance of the two are almost insurmountable. That’s why I no longer have any expectations of the Pirates ever winning another World Series again. I hate myself for lowering my expectations like that. It’s as if Nutting has won.

I agree Doc. I have no confidence that the Pirates will ever seriously compete for a championship under Nutting. It's hard enough to compete on an equal playing field, much less when the roster is filled out with rookies and dumpster dives.

I don't envy Cherington. He has little money to work with. He rarely keeps players before free agency takes them. But there have been recent extensions for Reynolds, Hayes and Keller. A step in the right direction. Otherwise, their productive players get traded before they can walk as FAs. But Cherington can't accept other productive players in exchange because they come with salaries Nutting won't pay. So Cherington can only accept prospects. But teams won't give up their top prospects. So he has to try to identify lower level prospects who are several years away from MLB who haven't progressed to the point where their organization has made them untouchable. So it's not unusual for the Pirates to trade productive players for 18- or 19-year-olds in rookie leagues or A-ball and then hope for the best. Cherington has to draft well. But that's not an exact science. And then those players have to be developed for MLB. Compare all that to the big market teams who simply buy or trade for a superstar to fill a need.

So now we need to see if Cherington's players can be developed into quality MLB players. Priester and Contrera don't look good. Mlodzinski was a 1st round pick turned into a good reliever when they need starters. Davis is having a good spring but they didn't know what to do with him last year and only an injury to Grandal is giving Davis a chance to shine this spring. Maybe Ortiz can contribute. In general, I have not been impressed with Cherington's minor league development or his priority for resting players at the MLB level. Lineups have no continuity or stability. Shelton does not appear to be a good manager and even the 3B coach is problematic. To a large degree, Cherington's hands are tied by Nutting. It's going to take a very exceptional GM to make the Pirates into legit contenders. So far, Cherington has not been exceptional.

Thoughtful response. Much of what you said is spot on. With regard to extending, Reynolds, Hayes, and Keller, I agree the Pirates did the right thing by doing so. However, truth be told, those guys are stars in Pittsburgh, but they wouldn’t be so with the top franchises, which exposes the differences between the best teams and the Pirates. All three are really good players here, but only Hayes would be a starter at 3B on all but a few teams. Reynolds may not be any more than a platoon player on the best teams. And Keller would be a #3, 4, or 5 starter in up to maybe half of the rotations in baseball.

As you said, the drafting and development have to be outstanding, especially in the first few rounds, nearly every year. And those guys need to move quickly through the minor leagues. One thing that frustrates the heck out of me is seeing other franchises drafting/signing incredible talent and getting them to their big clubs while those players are in their very early 20s, guys like Acuna with the Braves, Rodriquez with the Mariners, Tatis with the Padres, Carroll with the D’Backs, Guerrero and Bichette with the Jays, Alvarez with the Astros, Alonso with the Mets, Rutschman with the Orioles, Witt with the Royals, Soto with the Nats (a few years ago). Maybe Cruz will be one of those guys for us, but it’s easy to doubt it with the way things are done here.

Had any of the guys I mentioned above were acquired by the Pirates when they were amateurs, chances are they wouldn’t have been promoted to Pittsburgh as quickly, and wouldn’t have been extended because their talents are well beyond what the Pirates are willing to pay.

[Surgnbuck]

As far as drafted players by Cherington, keep in mind 2021 was the first possible season to see them in the big. Gonzales, Mlodzinski, and Jared Jones were 2020 picks. They're part of the mix in 2024. That was a pretty solid first draft with only 5 rounds.

2021 we have Davis, along with Solometo and Chandler near ready, again another solid class.

2022 we are already seeing Johnson, Batco, and Brannigan on their top prospect lists.

So it seems BC is doing well with the top 1-4 picks. I'd like to see a good number of lower picks to show at some point.

Most important, they are moving up pretty quickly if they show skill.

So far, I give BC a solid B, only because his first trades have yet to show much.

[Doc]

As far as drafted players by Cherington, keep in mind 2021 was the first possible season to see them in the big. Gonzales, Mlodzinski, and Jared Jones were 2020 picks. They're part of the mix in 2024. That was a pretty solid first draft with only 5 rounds.

2021 we have Davis, along with Solometo and Chandler near ready, again another solid class.

2022 we are already seeing Johnson, Batco, and Brannigan on their top prospect lists.

So it seems BC is doing well with the top 1-4 picks. I'd like to see a good number of lower picks to show at some point.

Most important, they are moving up pretty quickly if they show skill.

So far, I give BC a solid B, only because his first trades have yet to show much.

If we’re to believe the good things that have been reported about the players BC has drafted, the farm system is loaded with really good prospects. Now, at least some of them have to turn into really good major leaguers, otherwise it was all for nothing. And it would be nice if one or two or even three turn into absolute studs. Those are the kinds of players who are necessary to carry teams to championships. All we have is hope that these players become what we hear they’re projected to be because, right now, hope is all we have.