OnlyBucs

7975742F262F272A2D32281F0 wrote: Assistant GM Kyle Stark fired . . . err, "parted ways"
It is also being reported that Larry Broadway was let go today.
It appears Broadway has not been relieved of his duties. There has not been a release from the Pirates informing the media of his firing.

Hiring Cherington is the first move the Pirates have made in quite a while that I actually like and agree with. Personally, I think this is a fantastic hire, and I'm very excited about where he can bring the team. The farm systems he built in Boston and Toronto speak for themselves.



I could be wrong, but I believe he drafted guys like Devers, Bogaerts, Betts, Bradley, and Benintendi in Boston. I think he orchestrated all of the young talent (e.g. Guerrero, Biggio, Bichette).



Those teams (especially Boston) augmented with trades and FA signings, the latter of which won't be available here. But, IMHO, the bigger issue than the fact that the MLB team is in the state it is is the state of the MiLB system. To put it bluntly, it's not good. Keller struggled when he came up. Hayes looks like a decent prospect, but beyond that, there's not much. For the Pirates to be competitive, they absolutely must hit on their draft picks at a better clip than they have been. I think Cherington is the right guy to lead on that front.



In short, I think the Pirates are better today than they were last week, which isn't saying much, but it's a step in the right direction.

I scrolled back to last offseason to read some of the comments whenever Ben Cherington was hired last November. There were many positive messages written at that time.This 60 game season was poor to say the least. The new FO did more evaluating rather that acquisitions. There have been many negative messages this season towards the way Derek Shelton has managed and the roster construction by Ben Cherington. That is what is great about baseball we can all second guess managers and GM’s. I am an older fan, and maybe I have drunk the koolaid, but I feel there was progress made this year. Several of the players like Reynolds, Newman and Bell had subpar years, but I believe we will see better performances next season. The starting pitchers looked strong the final two weeks of this season. Is Keller for real, has Brault and Kuhl turned a corner, and how will Taillon look in 2021 ? If these questions would become true that is a very good front 4 of the rotation. I was very disappointed when Anthony Alford, as well as Phil Evans were injured. I would have liked to see what they would have done this short season. When Ben Cherington says there are players now on the roster who will be here when the Bucs win again I believe that statement. Who knows if certain things occur next year the a Bucs may be a 500 team. In 2022 young Nick Gonzalez arrives, and the Bucs add another player or two and we are back in the postseason. In my mind we are closer to postseason play then some think.

505C5D060F060E03041B01360 wrote: I scrolled back to last offseason to read some of the comments whenever Ben Cherington was hired last November. There were many positive messages written at that time.This 60 game season was poor to say the least. The new FO did more evaluating rather that acquisitions. There have been many negative messages this season towards the way Derek Shelton has managed and the roster construction by Ben Cherington. That is what is great about baseball we can all second guess managers and GM’s. I am an older fan, and maybe I have drunk the koolaid, but I feel there was progress made this year. Several of the players like Reynolds, Newman and Bell had subpar years, but I believe we will see better performances next season. The starting pitchers looked strong the final two weeks of this season. Is Keller for real, has Brault and Kuhl turned a corner, and how will Taillon look in 2021 ? If these questions would become true that is a very good front 4 of the rotation. I was very disappointed when Anthony Alford, as well as Phil Evans were injured. I would have liked to see what they would have done this short season. When Ben Cherington says there  are players now on the roster who will be here when the Bucs win again I believe that statement. Who knows if certain things occur next year the a Bucs may be a 500 team. In 2022 young Nick Gonzalez arrives, and the Bucs add another player or two and we are back in the postseason. In my mind we are closer to postseason play then some think.






Optimism will never win you points on a message board, but the truth is nobody here can really say how good Cherington is or not. His hands are tied by a cheap owner and, maybe even worse, a lack of talent. If he was going to make a big trade, who would he trade? What would you honestly get for the likes of Polanco, Frazier, or Trevor Williams? A few bench pieces at best.



I don't know if I agree that we're so close to the postseason but I think we'll be a lot better in 2022 than we were this year.

5E5253080108000D0A150F380 wrote: I scrolled back to last offseason to read some of the comments whenever Ben Cherington was hired last November. There were many positive messages written at that time.This 60 game season was poor to say the least. The new FO did more evaluating rather that acquisitions. There have been many negative messages this season towards the way Derek Shelton has managed and the roster construction by Ben Cherington. That is what is great about baseball we can all second guess managers and GM’s. I am an older fan, and maybe I have drunk the koolaid, but I feel there was progress made this year. Several of the players like Reynolds, Newman and Bell had subpar years, but I believe we will see better performances next season. The starting pitchers looked strong the final two weeks of this season. Is Keller for real, has Brault and Kuhl turned a corner, and how will Taillon look in 2021 ? If these questions would become true that is a very good front 4 of the rotation. I was very disappointed when Anthony Alford, as well as Phil Evans were injured. I would have liked to see what they would have done this short season. When Ben Cherington says there  are players now on the roster who will be here when the Bucs win again I believe that statement. Who knows if certain things occur next year the a Bucs may be a 500 team. In 2022 young Nick Gonzalez arrives, and the Bucs add another player or two and we are back in the postseason. In my mind we are closer to postseason play then some think.






I admire your enthusiasm and positive thoughts but I see a minimum of three years before the Pirates can be competitive again. To me, the starting line-up has two players (Reynolds and Hayes) who have shown they can be legitimate contributors. Moran can help but will never be a star. Bell and Newman both remain unknowns. Frazier is likely to be traded. Polanco is a mess and it would benefit the team to part ways with him.



As for the pitching, two weeks of decent work by the starters isn't enough to make me think the rotation is set. Keller was certainly impressive but we need to see more than two limited appearances. Musgrove and Taillon have been unreliable, to be kind. Brault and Kuhl could be serviceable back-end guys but those types of starters don't lead teams to pennants.



The farm system has little, if anything, to offer in the way of immediate help thanks to Huntington. That's why I believe the team is three years away from being competitive for two reasons: BC has no players to trade in return for other teams' young talent and because Nutting won't allow BC to sign higher level free agents. It's all going to come from the draft and international signings.



There are no quick fixes. I'm left with hoping BC and his staff are better at identifying and developing young talent than the previous regime. What gives me faith is that they can't be worse.

474F4C7B6D486F600E0 wrote: Hiring Cherington is the first move the Pirates have made in quite a while that I actually like and agree with. Personally, I think this is a fantastic hire, and I'm very excited about where he can bring the team. The farm systems he built in Boston and Toronto speak for themselves.



I could be wrong, but I believe he drafted guys like Devers, Bogaerts, Betts, Bradley, and Benintendi in Boston. I think he orchestrated all of the young talent (e.g. Guerrero, Biggio, Bichette).



Those teams (especially Boston) augmented with trades and FA signings, the latter of which won't be available here. But, IMHO, the bigger issue than the fact that the MLB team is in the state it is is the state of the MiLB system. To put it bluntly, it's not good. Keller struggled when he came up. Hayes looks like a decent prospect, but beyond that, there's not much. For the Pirates to be competitive, they absolutely must hit on their draft picks at a better clip than they have been. I think Cherington is the right guy to lead on that front.



In short, I think the Pirates are better today than they were last week, which isn't saying much, but it's a step in the right direction.
I agree mostly, but I am very concerned with Shelton. He just doesn't seem to be a manager to lead this team anywhere but the bottom. This concerns me about Cherington, he needs to be able to realize a mistake and move to correct it quickly. Hoping he can figure it out doesn't seem to be a strategy. Kinda reminds me of NH with Hurdle his last 3 years.

I would say that about BOB and his inability to see when he should make changes in his general manager.



Unless he doesn't want to make those changes.

Call me a dreamer, but I don’t think Travis Williams and Ben Cherington would sign on to join the Pirates if there were not assurances that payroll would not be increased when the time came to add it. I also believe there will be some type of salary floor established whenever the upcoming labor agreement is negotiated between the Owners and Players.

535F5E050C050D00071802350 wrote: Call me a dreamer, but I don’t think Travis Williams and Ben Cherington would sign on to join the Pirates if there were not assurances that payroll would not be increased when the time came to add it. I also believe there will be some type of salary floor established whenever the upcoming labor agreement is negotiated between the Owners and Players.


I hope you are correct. I could see Nutting making those assurances without hesitation now and not follow through when/if the time comes.

A prudent man would have it written into his contract. Believe Nutting at your own- nobody else's- risk.



One analyst on MLBNR said a few years ago that no manager (let alone GM) with any credentials would accept the job without it contractually agreed that the team would have a payroll in the Top 15.