I do see positive signs and signs of hope on the current MLB roster and among those on the way up.
BUT WHERE IS THE PITCHING?
If this team is going to legitimately contend any time soon, the franchise has GOT to acquire a lot of actual, MLB caliber pitchers ... either FA signings who are proven at the MLB level, or prospects who are talented enough to arrive from the farm system and actually be very good, not just hyped like Mitch Keller. He's just another pitcher, of many, in this system. They are all a dime a dozen.
Right now, I feel like we have an entire organization of pitchers who are No. 5 starters or AAAA caliber pitchers. Until we get some legit MLB arms on the MLB roster, this franchise is going nowhere.
We need a complete overhaul of the pitching in this organization.
Official Game Thread - Bucs @ Phillies - 9/26
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Official Game Thread - Bucs @ Phillies - 9/26
4C6E7D606366616E4D7A6C6C600F0 wrote: I do see positive signs and signs of hope on the current MLB roster and among those on the way up.
BUT WHERE IS THE PITCHING?
If this team is going to legitimately contend any time soon, the franchise has GOT to acquire a lot of actual, MLB caliber pitchers ... either FA signings who are proven at the MLB level, or prospects who are talented enough to arrive from the farm system and actually be very good, not just hyped like Mitch Keller. He's just another pitcher, of many, in this system. They are all a dime a dozen.
Right now, I feel like we have an entire organization of pitchers who are No. 5 starters or AAAA caliber pitchers. Until we get some legit MLB arms on the MLB roster, this franchise is going nowhere.
We need a complete overhaul of the pitching in this organization.
And that's the fly in the ointment. The Pirates won't pay for established pitchers unless they are #5 types or trying to rebuild sagging careers. Those are the only ones in their price range. And even if they were willing to pay for good established pitchers, why would good pitchers choose to join the Pirates if they were also getting good offers from better organizations?
So that only leaves developing their own or trading for mid to low level minor league pitchers (because other teams won't give up their Shane Baz's or their Tyler Glasnows). And when young pitchers take several years in MLB to reach their potential, which is normal, it's almost time to trade them before they can escape as a FA to a better team. So all the Pirates do is suffer through the years of growing pains while preparing their better pitching prospects for success with their next team.
The only solution I can see for a Nutting team is to put together an average at best pitching staff of Tyler Anderson types and moderate prospects while building a good hitting and good fielding team in the hope that the pitching will be adequate to contend. And then bite the bullet and spend to get a good starter or 2 who see that they can be a Pirate and still be on a contending team. Because even if you're willing to spend what it takes for good pitching, you have to offer an incentive when those good pitchers are getting good offers from other teams as well.
BUT WHERE IS THE PITCHING?
If this team is going to legitimately contend any time soon, the franchise has GOT to acquire a lot of actual, MLB caliber pitchers ... either FA signings who are proven at the MLB level, or prospects who are talented enough to arrive from the farm system and actually be very good, not just hyped like Mitch Keller. He's just another pitcher, of many, in this system. They are all a dime a dozen.
Right now, I feel like we have an entire organization of pitchers who are No. 5 starters or AAAA caliber pitchers. Until we get some legit MLB arms on the MLB roster, this franchise is going nowhere.
We need a complete overhaul of the pitching in this organization.
And that's the fly in the ointment. The Pirates won't pay for established pitchers unless they are #5 types or trying to rebuild sagging careers. Those are the only ones in their price range. And even if they were willing to pay for good established pitchers, why would good pitchers choose to join the Pirates if they were also getting good offers from better organizations?
So that only leaves developing their own or trading for mid to low level minor league pitchers (because other teams won't give up their Shane Baz's or their Tyler Glasnows). And when young pitchers take several years in MLB to reach their potential, which is normal, it's almost time to trade them before they can escape as a FA to a better team. So all the Pirates do is suffer through the years of growing pains while preparing their better pitching prospects for success with their next team.
The only solution I can see for a Nutting team is to put together an average at best pitching staff of Tyler Anderson types and moderate prospects while building a good hitting and good fielding team in the hope that the pitching will be adequate to contend. And then bite the bullet and spend to get a good starter or 2 who see that they can be a Pirate and still be on a contending team. Because even if you're willing to spend what it takes for good pitching, you have to offer an incentive when those good pitchers are getting good offers from other teams as well.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - Bucs @ Phillies - 9/26
FWIW, possibly nothing:
I looked yesterday, and it might have changed since.
We're ranking in the 20's (mid- to high, IIRC) on both sides of the plate (Pitching and Hitting.)
I found it surprising that we rank higher in hitting than the Brew Crew. I assume that the rankings by TBA, and takes the entire year into account. I dnk if my assumptions are correct.
We're 2 in Fielding. I've been unsure on how much that matters even if I fully accept the measurements that determine it. But, 2 is 2, and it's something.
I looked yesterday, and it might have changed since.
We're ranking in the 20's (mid- to high, IIRC) on both sides of the plate (Pitching and Hitting.)
I found it surprising that we rank higher in hitting than the Brew Crew. I assume that the rankings by TBA, and takes the entire year into account. I dnk if my assumptions are correct.
We're 2 in Fielding. I've been unsure on how much that matters even if I fully accept the measurements that determine it. But, 2 is 2, and it's something.
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Bobster21
Official Game Thread - Bucs @ Phillies - 9/26
4B7E6969625B69696265690C0 wrote: FWIW, possibly nothing:
I looked yesterday, and it might have changed since.
We're ranking in the 20's (mid- to high, IIRC) on both sides of the plate (Pitching and Hitting.)
I found it surprising that we rank higher in hitting than the Brew Crew. I assume that the rankings by TBA, and takes the entire year into account. I dnk if my assumptions are correct.
We're 2 in Fielding. I've been unsure on how much that matters even if I fully accept the measurements that determine it. But, 2 is 2, and it's something.
What ranking system was that? Just looking at baseball reference, I see the Brewers are dead last in team BA (surprisingly) and the Pirates are next to last. The Brewers are at league average in OBP but Pirates are again next to last. In both SLG and OPS the Brewers are 11th and Pirates are last. In hits, the Brewers are only 12th while the Pirates surged into 14th place!. (Yay, us!) But the Brewers must get timely hitting because they are 6th in runs scored while the Pirates--again--last.
It's also interesting that while the Pirates have the 2nd worst team OBP, they have the 4th highest total of runners LOB. So they don't get many guys on base but they are among the best at stranding them.
I looked yesterday, and it might have changed since.
We're ranking in the 20's (mid- to high, IIRC) on both sides of the plate (Pitching and Hitting.)
I found it surprising that we rank higher in hitting than the Brew Crew. I assume that the rankings by TBA, and takes the entire year into account. I dnk if my assumptions are correct.
We're 2 in Fielding. I've been unsure on how much that matters even if I fully accept the measurements that determine it. But, 2 is 2, and it's something.
What ranking system was that? Just looking at baseball reference, I see the Brewers are dead last in team BA (surprisingly) and the Pirates are next to last. The Brewers are at league average in OBP but Pirates are again next to last. In both SLG and OPS the Brewers are 11th and Pirates are last. In hits, the Brewers are only 12th while the Pirates surged into 14th place!. (Yay, us!) But the Brewers must get timely hitting because they are 6th in runs scored while the Pirates--again--last.
It's also interesting that while the Pirates have the 2nd worst team OBP, they have the 4th highest total of runners LOB. So they don't get many guys on base but they are among the best at stranding them.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - Bucs @ Phillies - 9/26
Espn.com. looks like TBA. We're one better than the Brew Crew. Surprised me.
Looking at Team ERA, we're bad- 28th. No playoff-headed team is worse than 16th (Red Sox) as of today.
We could use some improvement on both sides of the dish.
Looking at Team ERA, we're bad- 28th. No playoff-headed team is worse than 16th (Red Sox) as of today.
We could use some improvement on both sides of the dish.
Official Game Thread - Bucs @ Phillies - 9/26
172235353E0735353E3935500 wrote: FWIW, possibly nothing:
I looked yesterday, and it might have changed since.
We're ranking in the 20's (mid- to high, IIRC) on both sides of the plate (Pitching and Hitting.)
I found it surprising that we rank higher in hitting than the Brew Crew. I assume that the rankings by TBA, and takes the entire year into account. I dnk if my assumptions are correct.
We're 2 in Fielding. I've been unsure on how much that matters even if I fully accept the measurements that determine it. But, 2 is 2, and it's something.
Only speaking for the fielding rating, it must have to do with fewest errors.
FWIW, it's great having the mlb tv package. The Piratey stuff we think only the Pirates do, kind of happens on a routine basis throughout the major leagues, specifically dropped balls on the infield and outfield primarily because of lack of communication. I'm starting to wonder, as it seems so prevalent throughout MLB, if it has something to do with all the versatility every team seems to want now.
I looked yesterday, and it might have changed since.
We're ranking in the 20's (mid- to high, IIRC) on both sides of the plate (Pitching and Hitting.)
I found it surprising that we rank higher in hitting than the Brew Crew. I assume that the rankings by TBA, and takes the entire year into account. I dnk if my assumptions are correct.
We're 2 in Fielding. I've been unsure on how much that matters even if I fully accept the measurements that determine it. But, 2 is 2, and it's something.
Only speaking for the fielding rating, it must have to do with fewest errors.
FWIW, it's great having the mlb tv package. The Piratey stuff we think only the Pirates do, kind of happens on a routine basis throughout the major leagues, specifically dropped balls on the infield and outfield primarily because of lack of communication. I'm starting to wonder, as it seems so prevalent throughout MLB, if it has something to do with all the versatility every team seems to want now.
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Bobster21
Official Game Thread - Bucs @ Phillies - 9/26
193F382D24283F29214A0 wrote: FWIW, possibly nothing:
I looked yesterday, and it might have changed since.
We're ranking in the 20's (mid- to high, IIRC) on both sides of the plate (Pitching and Hitting.)
I found it surprising that we rank higher in hitting than the Brew Crew. I assume that the rankings by TBA, and takes the entire year into account. I dnk if my assumptions are correct.
We're 2 in Fielding. I've been unsure on how much that matters even if I fully accept the measurements that determine it. But, 2 is 2, and it's something.
Only speaking for the fielding rating, it must have to do with fewest errors.
FWIW, it's great having the mlb tv package. The Piratey stuff we think only the Pirates do, kind of happens on a routine basis throughout the major leagues, specifically dropped balls on the infield and outfield primarily because of lack of communication. I'm starting to wonder, as it seems so prevalent throughout MLB, if it has something to do with all the versatility every team seems to want now.
Yes, years ago it seemed rare to see MLB players botch routine plays. But it's far more commonplace now.
I looked yesterday, and it might have changed since.
We're ranking in the 20's (mid- to high, IIRC) on both sides of the plate (Pitching and Hitting.)
I found it surprising that we rank higher in hitting than the Brew Crew. I assume that the rankings by TBA, and takes the entire year into account. I dnk if my assumptions are correct.
We're 2 in Fielding. I've been unsure on how much that matters even if I fully accept the measurements that determine it. But, 2 is 2, and it's something.
Only speaking for the fielding rating, it must have to do with fewest errors.
FWIW, it's great having the mlb tv package. The Piratey stuff we think only the Pirates do, kind of happens on a routine basis throughout the major leagues, specifically dropped balls on the infield and outfield primarily because of lack of communication. I'm starting to wonder, as it seems so prevalent throughout MLB, if it has something to do with all the versatility every team seems to want now.
Yes, years ago it seemed rare to see MLB players botch routine plays. But it's far more commonplace now.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - Bucs @ Phillies - 9/26
I'm willing to bet that it has happened all along. We just didn't see it as easily for various reasons.
Eons ago, there were only three networks, and we got to see our team and their opponent, plus maybe Curt Gowdy/NBC's Game of the Week. Fewer teams, too.
I remember seeing all sorts of funny plays with Mel Allen/This Week In Baseball every weekend. So, stuff happened then, too.
These days, we have access to all 30 teams' games as they happen if we want.
Eons ago, there were only three networks, and we got to see our team and their opponent, plus maybe Curt Gowdy/NBC's Game of the Week. Fewer teams, too.
I remember seeing all sorts of funny plays with Mel Allen/This Week In Baseball every weekend. So, stuff happened then, too.
These days, we have access to all 30 teams' games as they happen if we want.
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DemDog
Official Game Thread - Bucs @ Phillies - 9/26
132631313A0331313A3D31540 wrote: I'm willing to bet that it has happened all along. We just didn't see it as easily for various reasons.
Eons ago, there were only three networks, and we got to see our team and their opponent, plus maybe Curt Gowdy/NBC's Game of the Week. Fewer teams, too.
I remember seeing all sorts of funny plays with Mel Allen/This Week In Baseball every weekend. So, stuff happened then, too.
These days, we have access to all 30 teams' games as they happen if we want.
I loved Mel Allen and This Week in Baseball. He was one great announcer.
Eons ago, there were only three networks, and we got to see our team and their opponent, plus maybe Curt Gowdy/NBC's Game of the Week. Fewer teams, too.
I remember seeing all sorts of funny plays with Mel Allen/This Week In Baseball every weekend. So, stuff happened then, too.
These days, we have access to all 30 teams' games as they happen if we want.
I loved Mel Allen and This Week in Baseball. He was one great announcer.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - Bucs @ Phillies - 9/26
He made rain delays bearable. That's when they used to put TWIB on to pass the time.
That's when they used to put TWIB on to pass the time.