The Lumber Company.
We Are Fam-a-Lee.
The Freak Show.
The Hodgepodge of Nothingness.
Kudos to Dennis Eckersley, I hope the last one sticks as well as the others.
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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maher.timothy20@gm
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
0B293E212D2218233B223F24253C4C0 wrote: After reading in the paper the negative, but, very truthful comments that were made about this JOKE of a team that we have, hopefully it even makes the national sports news. The RedSox announcers took care of that during last night’s game. This is basically the very same thing that I said when starting this, Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke. Trust me, the same negative comments from us will be exactly the same when giving our individual opinions. Thank goodness for college and pro football. At least we can cheer for Penn State, WVU, Pitt, and Steelers. As long as Nutting owns them, no improvements that will benefit this make up of future rosters will be coming. Just do your research on how Nutting operates his other endeavors, like Seven Springs and his news papers that he has purchased. All shoestring operations. Keep putting your money in Nutting’s pockets when you purchase tickets to games, and subscribing to networks that show mlb games. When the owners approved this last agreement with the players, with no base and max salary, in my opinion, it was over.
It is truly on Nutting, especially with the low payrolls of the past few years. Imagine we spent on one outfielder, a first baseman, and a starting pitcher in the offseason. I mean, legit, $10M to $15M/year type free agents. Even at that cost the payroll would hover around $100M.
Hayes
Reynolds
Free Agent Outfielder
Free Agent 1B
Cruz
Bae/Newman/Rodriguez/Pegeuro or whoever wins that battle
Suwinski
Nunez (DH)
Henry Davis (toward end of '23)
Rotation:
Free agent pitcher
Keller
Contreras
Priester
Burrows
That team would compete, IMO. But the owner is impenetrable to giving a shit.
It is truly on Nutting, especially with the low payrolls of the past few years. Imagine we spent on one outfielder, a first baseman, and a starting pitcher in the offseason. I mean, legit, $10M to $15M/year type free agents. Even at that cost the payroll would hover around $100M.
Hayes
Reynolds
Free Agent Outfielder
Free Agent 1B
Cruz
Bae/Newman/Rodriguez/Pegeuro or whoever wins that battle
Suwinski
Nunez (DH)
Henry Davis (toward end of '23)
Rotation:
Free agent pitcher
Keller
Contreras
Priester
Burrows
That team would compete, IMO. But the owner is impenetrable to giving a shit.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
I give Eck five Green Weenies.
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GermanTownship
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
Davis Square, you are 100% correct. But, hey, we’re talking about Nutting. That ain’t happening. Why don’t the local television stations start doing commentaries on Nutting?
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
2B272E233468322F2B29322E3F747606212B460 wrote: After reading in the paper the negative, but, very truthful comments that were made about this JOKE of a team that we have, hopefully it even makes the national sports news. The RedSox announcers took care of that during last night’s game. This is basically the very same thing that I said when starting this, Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke. Trust me, the same negative comments from us will be exactly the same when giving our individual opinions. Thank goodness for college and pro football. At least we can cheer for Penn State, WVU, Pitt, and Steelers. As long as Nutting owns them, no improvements that will benefit this make up of future rosters will be coming. Just do your research on how Nutting operates his other endeavors, like Seven Springs and his news papers that he has purchased. All shoestring operations. Keep putting your money in Nutting’s pockets when you purchase tickets to games, and subscribing to networks that show mlb games. When the owners approved this last agreement with the players, with no base and max salary, in my opinion, it was over.
[highlight]It is truly on Nutting[/highlight], especially with the low payrolls of the past few years. Imagine we spent on one outfielder, a first baseman, and a starting pitcher in the offseason. I mean, legit, $10M to $15M/year type free agents. Even at that cost the payroll would hover around $100M.
Hayes
Reynolds
Free Agent Outfielder
Free Agent 1B
Cruz
Bae/Newman/Rodriguez/Pegeuro or whoever wins that battle
Suwinski
Nunez (DH)
Henry Davis (toward end of '23)
Rotation:
Free agent pitcher
Keller
Contreras
Priester
Burrows
That team would compete, IMO. [highlight]But the owner is impenetrable to giving a shit.[/highlight]
That's the crux of it. There's little to no hope of fielding a competitive team, especially within the time frame Cherington has been here, without the owner giving his GM some help. Who among us would be surprised to know that when BC interviewed, he explained to Nutting that building a roster through the draft was the best way to put together a winning team. That would've been music to Nutting's ears: a roster on the cheap for three to six years. If it wins, great. If not, he pretends he's upset, fires the GM, and promises things will change with the new GM. Then it's six more years of the same.
[highlight]It is truly on Nutting[/highlight], especially with the low payrolls of the past few years. Imagine we spent on one outfielder, a first baseman, and a starting pitcher in the offseason. I mean, legit, $10M to $15M/year type free agents. Even at that cost the payroll would hover around $100M.
Hayes
Reynolds
Free Agent Outfielder
Free Agent 1B
Cruz
Bae/Newman/Rodriguez/Pegeuro or whoever wins that battle
Suwinski
Nunez (DH)
Henry Davis (toward end of '23)
Rotation:
Free agent pitcher
Keller
Contreras
Priester
Burrows
That team would compete, IMO. [highlight]But the owner is impenetrable to giving a shit.[/highlight]
That's the crux of it. There's little to no hope of fielding a competitive team, especially within the time frame Cherington has been here, without the owner giving his GM some help. Who among us would be surprised to know that when BC interviewed, he explained to Nutting that building a roster through the draft was the best way to put together a winning team. That would've been music to Nutting's ears: a roster on the cheap for three to six years. If it wins, great. If not, he pretends he's upset, fires the GM, and promises things will change with the new GM. Then it's six more years of the same.
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
386E786C637969626F784A6D676B636624690A0 wrote: After reading in the paper the negative, but, very truthful comments that were made about this JOKE of a team that we have, hopefully it even makes the national sports news. The RedSox announcers took care of that during last night’s game. This is basically the very same thing that I said when starting this, Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke. Trust me, the same negative comments from us will be exactly the same when giving our individual opinions. Thank goodness for college and pro football. At least we can cheer for Penn State, WVU, Pitt, and Steelers. As long as Nutting owns them, no improvements that will benefit this make up of future rosters will be coming. Just do your research on how Nutting operates his other endeavors, like Seven Springs and his news papers that he has purchased. All shoestring operations. Keep putting your money in Nutting’s pockets when you purchase tickets to games, and subscribing to networks that show mlb games. When the owners approved this last agreement with the players, with no base and max salary, in my opinion, it was over.
[highlight]It is truly on Nutting[/highlight], especially with the low payrolls of the past few years. Imagine we spent on one outfielder, a first baseman, and a starting pitcher in the offseason. I mean, legit, $10M to $15M/year type free agents. Even at that cost the payroll would hover around $100M.
Hayes
Reynolds
Free Agent Outfielder
Free Agent 1B
Cruz
Bae/Newman/Rodriguez/Pegeuro or whoever wins that battle
Suwinski
Nunez (DH)
Henry Davis (toward end of '23)
Rotation:
Free agent pitcher
Keller
Contreras
Priester
Burrows
That team would compete, IMO. [highlight]But the owner is impenetrable to giving a shit.[/highlight]
That's the crux of it. There's little to no hope of fielding a competitive team, especially within the time frame Cherington has been here, without the owner giving his GM some help. Who among us would be surprised to know that when BC interviewed, he explained to Nutting that building a roster through the draft was the best way to put together a winning team. That would've been music to Nutting's ears: a roster on the cheap for three to six years. If it wins, great. [highlight]If not, he pretends he's upset, fires the GM, and promises things will change with the new GM. Then it's six more years of the same. [/highlight]
You have outlined the long range plan.
[highlight]It is truly on Nutting[/highlight], especially with the low payrolls of the past few years. Imagine we spent on one outfielder, a first baseman, and a starting pitcher in the offseason. I mean, legit, $10M to $15M/year type free agents. Even at that cost the payroll would hover around $100M.
Hayes
Reynolds
Free Agent Outfielder
Free Agent 1B
Cruz
Bae/Newman/Rodriguez/Pegeuro or whoever wins that battle
Suwinski
Nunez (DH)
Henry Davis (toward end of '23)
Rotation:
Free agent pitcher
Keller
Contreras
Priester
Burrows
That team would compete, IMO. [highlight]But the owner is impenetrable to giving a shit.[/highlight]
That's the crux of it. There's little to no hope of fielding a competitive team, especially within the time frame Cherington has been here, without the owner giving his GM some help. Who among us would be surprised to know that when BC interviewed, he explained to Nutting that building a roster through the draft was the best way to put together a winning team. That would've been music to Nutting's ears: a roster on the cheap for three to six years. If it wins, great. [highlight]If not, he pretends he's upset, fires the GM, and promises things will change with the new GM. Then it's six more years of the same. [/highlight]
You have outlined the long range plan.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
Need a volunteer. Who's up for a hunger strike?
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
032524332535460 wrote: After reading in the paper the negative, but, very truthful comments that were made about this JOKE of a team that we have, hopefully it even makes the national sports news. The RedSox announcers took care of that during last night’s game. This is basically the very same thing that I said when starting this, Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke. Trust me, the same negative comments from us will be exactly the same when giving our individual opinions. Thank goodness for college and pro football. At least we can cheer for Penn State, WVU, Pitt, and Steelers. As long as Nutting owns them, no improvements that will benefit this make up of future rosters will be coming. Just do your research on how Nutting operates his other endeavors, like Seven Springs and his news papers that he has purchased. All shoestring operations. Keep putting your money in Nutting’s pockets when you purchase tickets to games, and subscribing to networks that show mlb games. When the owners approved this last agreement with the players, with no base and max salary, in my opinion, it was over.
[highlight]It is truly on Nutting[/highlight], especially with the low payrolls of the past few years. Imagine we spent on one outfielder, a first baseman, and a starting pitcher in the offseason. I mean, legit, $10M to $15M/year type free agents. Even at that cost the payroll would hover around $100M.
Hayes
Reynolds
Free Agent Outfielder
Free Agent 1B
Cruz
Bae/Newman/Rodriguez/Pegeuro or whoever wins that battle
Suwinski
Nunez (DH)
Henry Davis (toward end of '23)
Rotation:
Free agent pitcher
Keller
Contreras
Priester
Burrows
That team would compete, IMO. [highlight]But the owner is impenetrable to giving a shit.[/highlight]
That's the crux of it. There's little to no hope of fielding a competitive team, especially within the time frame Cherington has been here, without the owner giving his GM some help. Who among us would be surprised to know that when BC interviewed, he explained to Nutting that building a roster through the draft was the best way to put together a winning team. That would've been music to Nutting's ears: a roster on the cheap for three to six years. If it wins, great. [highlight]If not, he pretends he's upset, fires the GM, and promises things will change with the new GM. Then it's six more years of the same. [/q[/highlight]uote]
You have outlined the long range plan.
Nutting fell into the perfect situation to employ that long range plan. Imagine a business where the owner inhibits his managers from making the company reach its potential, and yet still earns considerable profits. And where there's little incentive to improve or compete because your very competitors will help support you. Why would he ever take on the risk that comes with trying to win?
[highlight]It is truly on Nutting[/highlight], especially with the low payrolls of the past few years. Imagine we spent on one outfielder, a first baseman, and a starting pitcher in the offseason. I mean, legit, $10M to $15M/year type free agents. Even at that cost the payroll would hover around $100M.
Hayes
Reynolds
Free Agent Outfielder
Free Agent 1B
Cruz
Bae/Newman/Rodriguez/Pegeuro or whoever wins that battle
Suwinski
Nunez (DH)
Henry Davis (toward end of '23)
Rotation:
Free agent pitcher
Keller
Contreras
Priester
Burrows
That team would compete, IMO. [highlight]But the owner is impenetrable to giving a shit.[/highlight]
That's the crux of it. There's little to no hope of fielding a competitive team, especially within the time frame Cherington has been here, without the owner giving his GM some help. Who among us would be surprised to know that when BC interviewed, he explained to Nutting that building a roster through the draft was the best way to put together a winning team. That would've been music to Nutting's ears: a roster on the cheap for three to six years. If it wins, great. [highlight]If not, he pretends he's upset, fires the GM, and promises things will change with the new GM. Then it's six more years of the same. [/q[/highlight]uote]
You have outlined the long range plan.
Nutting fell into the perfect situation to employ that long range plan. Imagine a business where the owner inhibits his managers from making the company reach its potential, and yet still earns considerable profits. And where there's little incentive to improve or compete because your very competitors will help support you. Why would he ever take on the risk that comes with trying to win?
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
Unless BOB gave orders to Cherington to shed payroll immediately, then I would argue that Cherington is not without his own responsibilities.
He came in, thought he knew more than anyone, got rid of what little talent the team had, then (correctly) thought that he could sell the masses on The Future.
A good Cherington move was to bring in Vogelbach. Got rid of him in under a year.
What we are seeing today- along with his selection of the manager and coaching staff that a lot of folks here seem to agree is less than ideal- is the result of that failed experiment.
BOB's tightness plays into the inability to bring in well-compensated external talent. I'll hand folks that. But, these other decisions have nothing to do with that. Odds are, Cherington would have made the same decisions regardless.
BOB's cheapness would probably come more into play when it would be time to keep existing talent.
This is a collaborative effort, and I consider it short-sighted to disregard The Cherington Effect. A good piece of this; probably the highest portion- is at his doorstep.
He came in, thought he knew more than anyone, got rid of what little talent the team had, then (correctly) thought that he could sell the masses on The Future.
A good Cherington move was to bring in Vogelbach. Got rid of him in under a year.
What we are seeing today- along with his selection of the manager and coaching staff that a lot of folks here seem to agree is less than ideal- is the result of that failed experiment.
BOB's tightness plays into the inability to bring in well-compensated external talent. I'll hand folks that. But, these other decisions have nothing to do with that. Odds are, Cherington would have made the same decisions regardless.
BOB's cheapness would probably come more into play when it would be time to keep existing talent.
This is a collaborative effort, and I consider it short-sighted to disregard The Cherington Effect. A good piece of this; probably the highest portion- is at his doorstep.
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UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
Hoping the Pirates are better next year! Joke
Unless BOB gave orders to Cherington to shed payroll immediately, then I would argue that Cherington is not without his own responsibilities.
He came in, thought he knew more than anyone, got rid of what little talent the team had, then (correctly) thought that he could sell the masses on The Future.
I think we now have the benefit of some hindsight here and I would say he got rid of talent a little quickly - and didn't get enough return in several trades. He absolutely did not get enough for Marte or Bell.
A good Cherington move was to bring in Vogelbach. Got rid of him in under a year.
Vogelbach and Anderson (and Frazier for me, who seems to have found his feet again and is tearing it up for the Ms right now). Are we going to try to build a roster with anything but kids?
This is a collaborative effort, and I consider it short-sighted to disregard The Cherington Effect. A good piece of this; probably the highest portion- is at his doorstep.
The rap on BC at Boston was he ignored the MLB roster while building the minors up. It was the next GM that meshed the youth with some veterans to create a WS winner. Obviously, Pittsburgh is a lot different (see complaints about the owner), but it seems he has done little to build anything but the minors ... and I think it can be questioned at this point how well he has done that so far.
I was interested in our new MLB top 30 prospect list:
https://www.mlb.com/pirates/news/pirate ... e-coverage
The dynamic that seems to be in play is that many of the upper prospects seem to be unable to hold their status and are slipping down the list a they rise through the minors. Obviously there are exceptions as Endy looks like a really good prospect and when the heck are we going to get Bae on the MLB roster and see how his speed plays? Priester seems to have held his own. But seriously, the book is still out on Davis and Gonsalez who have been injured a lot.
There are a lot of guys from the last two drafts who are high on the list and a long, long way from helping.
He came in, thought he knew more than anyone, got rid of what little talent the team had, then (correctly) thought that he could sell the masses on The Future.
I think we now have the benefit of some hindsight here and I would say he got rid of talent a little quickly - and didn't get enough return in several trades. He absolutely did not get enough for Marte or Bell.
A good Cherington move was to bring in Vogelbach. Got rid of him in under a year.
Vogelbach and Anderson (and Frazier for me, who seems to have found his feet again and is tearing it up for the Ms right now). Are we going to try to build a roster with anything but kids?
This is a collaborative effort, and I consider it short-sighted to disregard The Cherington Effect. A good piece of this; probably the highest portion- is at his doorstep.
The rap on BC at Boston was he ignored the MLB roster while building the minors up. It was the next GM that meshed the youth with some veterans to create a WS winner. Obviously, Pittsburgh is a lot different (see complaints about the owner), but it seems he has done little to build anything but the minors ... and I think it can be questioned at this point how well he has done that so far.
I was interested in our new MLB top 30 prospect list:
https://www.mlb.com/pirates/news/pirate ... e-coverage
The dynamic that seems to be in play is that many of the upper prospects seem to be unable to hold their status and are slipping down the list a they rise through the minors. Obviously there are exceptions as Endy looks like a really good prospect and when the heck are we going to get Bae on the MLB roster and see how his speed plays? Priester seems to have held his own. But seriously, the book is still out on Davis and Gonsalez who have been injured a lot.
There are a lot of guys from the last two drafts who are high on the list and a long, long way from helping.