OnlyBucs

7C777F7376776C292F586179707777367B77180 wrote: The Cardinals traded Jaime Garcia for prospects.  He was due $12 million a year.  If the Pirates did that, it would be a salary dump.  I am not sure what it is called when the Cardinals do that.



With that said, the Cardinals are always mentioned in rumors.  They are being linked to Dexter Fowler and his $18 million a year asking price along with the Blue Jays, who have interest.




Not automatically, the Cards got 3 prospects out of Braves top 30 (much more than the Pirates got for Charlie Morton) and Garcia hasn't pitched a full season in majors since 2011 (until last year where he was a below average starter)

646F676B6E6F743137407961686F6F2E636F000 wrote: The Cardinals traded Jaime Garcia for prospects.  He was due $12 million a year.  If the Pirates did that, it would be a salary dump.  I am not sure what it is called when the Cardinals do that.
The difference is that the Cardinals maintain a high payroll. They were 9th in MLB last season at 167 million. Even if they wanted to shed Garcia's salary, they make up for it by signing and/or retaining high priced players. The Pirates maintain a low payroll and were 25th last season at around 105 million. It would seem they have room to spend more rather than sacrificing talent just to spend less.

Yes, the Pirates should be in on Sale, whose price likely went up even further after Melancon was able to get $62 mil for 4 years and Rich Hill got $48 mil for 3 years.



Thus, my note to Pirate management: Pitching isn't cheap and good pitching clearly isn't cheap.



I continue to believe that the best route is to trade Cutch to the Nats for good prospects and then to flip some of the newly acquired talent with talent in the existing system to the White Sox for Sales.



Moving Cutch frees up the money to take on Sale and to help make it easier to absorb Nova's salary, and by increasing the minor league talent pool you can better afford to trade for Sale without bankrupting the minor league system.



Frankly, I want to hold onto Meadows as the heir apparent for the OF (assuming Bell is at first at some point), and would prefer to hang onto Glasnow, but I would consider moving him if it reduced the cost in other prospects.



At this point, the White Sox have the right to request and expect that they will receive a boatload of talent for Sale.

1C30383F3413243222510 wrote: Yes, the Pirates should be in on Sale, whose price likely went up even further after Melancon was able to get $62 mil for 4 years and Rich Hill got $48 mil for 3 years. 



Thus, my note to Pirate management:  Pitching isn't cheap and good pitching clearly isn't cheap.



I continue to believe that the best route is to trade Cutch to the Nats for good prospects and then to flip some of the newly acquired talent with talent in the existing system to the White Sox for Sales. 



Moving Cutch frees up the money to take on Sale and to help make it easier to absorb Nova's salary, and by increasing the minor league talent pool you can better afford to trade for Sale without bankrupting the minor league system. 



Frankly, I want to hold onto Meadows as the heir apparent for the OF (assuming Bell is at first at some point), and would prefer to hang onto Glasnow, but I would consider moving him if it reduced the cost in other prospects. 



At this point, the White Sox have the right to request and expect that they will receive a boatload of talent for Sale. 



    


Maybe we're looking at moving at the wrong player.



Gerrit Cole would be an awfully tempting pitcher in this market.

5E727A7D7651667060130 wrote: Yes, the Pirates should be in on Sale, whose price likely went up even further after Melancon was able to get $62 mil for 4 years and Rich Hill got $48 mil for 3 years. 



Thus, my note to Pirate management:  Pitching isn't cheap and good pitching clearly isn't cheap.



I continue to believe that the best route is to trade Cutch to the Nats for good prospects and then to flip some of the newly acquired talent with talent in the existing system to the White Sox for Sales. 



Moving Cutch frees up the money to take on Sale and to help make it easier to absorb Nova's salary, and by increasing the minor league talent pool you can better afford to trade for Sale without bankrupting the minor league system. 



Frankly, I want to hold onto Meadows as the heir apparent for the OF (assuming Bell is at first at some point), and would prefer to hang onto Glasnow, but I would consider moving him if it reduced the cost in other prospects. 



At this point, the White Sox have the right to request and expect that they will receive a boatload of talent for Sale. 



    


this only works if the Nats want Cutch more than Sale. If they think they can get him the Bucs won't have a shot at him.

4B7975756153707974717E79180 wrote: As currently constituted I don't see the Pirates being competitive enough to challenge for a division title. No amount of things going right for the Bucs and wrong for the Cubs adds up to a division title in my mind.



Adding Chris Sale to the starting rotation in a deal 1 for 1 for Marte gives our starting pitching a boost that puts us in the same league as the Cubs, Giants, Nats, Dodgers, Cards and Mets. We've got a legit chance in a Wild Card game facing those other teams' top pitchers. And if enough goes wrong for the Cubs we're in a position to take advantage of their failings.



If the Pirates organization is not actively competing for a championship then we should be rebuilding because they don't give participation trophies in MLB.


Maybe?  A theoretical Marte for Sale trade feels like robbing Peter to pay Paul. 




Well sure because Paul needs the money more than Peter.



It's a baseball trade. It hurts to lose Marte. Sale's value means that you have to sacrifice talent to get him. My argument isn't that Marte is purely expendable, he's not expendable if Cutch is traded. But if Cutch is still a Pirate we need a top of the rotation starter more than we need Marte because we've got Meadows and Bell in the wings.



A deal Marte for Sale one for one means we get to hold onto our top prospects. Why would the Chisox make that deal? They're the ones who are motivated to shop Sale. They're looking to make a deal. The Pirates don't have to trade Marte, an All-Star outfielder who is signed to an amazingly team friendly contract. Marte's value will likely never be higher and the White Sox may not get a better offer. The point is the Pirates should be making every possible attempt to get Sale.

0F2B3F37325E0 wrote: As currently constituted I don't see the Pirates being competitive enough to challenge for a division title. No amount of things going right for the Bucs and wrong for the Cubs adds up to a division title in my mind.



Adding Chris Sale to the starting rotation in a deal 1 for 1 for Marte gives our starting pitching a boost that puts us in the same league as the Cubs, Giants, Nats, Dodgers, Cards and Mets. We've got a legit chance in a Wild Card game facing those other teams' top pitchers. And if enough goes wrong for the Cubs we're in a position to take advantage of their failings.



If the Pirates organization is not actively competing for a championship then we should be rebuilding because they don't give participation trophies in MLB.


Maybe?  A theoretical Marte for Sale trade feels like robbing Peter to pay Paul. 




Well sure because Paul needs the money more than Peter. 



It's a baseball trade. It hurts to lose Marte. Sale's value means that you have to sacrifice talent to get him. My argument isn't that Marte is purely expendable, he's not expendable if Cutch is traded. But if Cutch is still a Pirate we need a top of the rotation starter more than we need Marte because we've got Meadows and Bell in the wings.



A deal Marte for Sale one for one means we get to hold onto our top prospects. Why would the Chisox make that deal? They're the ones who are motivated to shop Sale. They're looking to make a deal. The Pirates don't have to trade Marte, an All-Star outfielder who is signed to an amazingly team friendly contract. Marte's value will likely never be higher and the White Sox may not get a better offer. The point is the Pirates should be making every possible attempt to get Sale.




NH could stress that Marte's contract is smaller. That should seal the deal.

What is the motivation for the White Sox to trade Sale? Are they rebuilding? Do they have a bunch of young talent coming up in a few years? Or do they know they have a top pitcher they can get a lot for in a trade?

My understanding is that Sale made a significant issue out of not being willing to wear an old style uniform that the Chisox were committed to wearing. IIRC he refused to start a game on a day when those uniforms were to be worn. In short he's somewhat at odds with the White Sox organization. Hence if they can deal him for a good return they will.

0B2F3B33365A0 wrote: My understanding is that Sale made a significant issue out of not being willing to wear an old style uniform that the Chisox were committed to wearing. IIRC he refused to start a game on a day when those uniforms were to be worn. In short he's somewhat at odds with the White Sox organization. Hence if they can deal him for a good return they will.


Not only that, ol' Scissorhands Sale made quite certain that nobody else would be wearing those throwback unis, either. What's to say he also wouldn't take a pair of shears to the Pirates' 1979 or '71 unis?