I don't agree with Glasnow making or breaking the 2017 season either. He is a special talent, but he isn't as polished as Cole or Taillon when they came up. He eventually can be better than them, but he still has some learning and needs to get more polished.
A healthy Cole can be very good. We have seen this before. I don't get into the labeling of starters as much as others. Its nice to have that "ace" but every team in baseball would take Cole in their rotation. Every team.
Starting Pitching Depth
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Starting Pitching Depth
2229212D2829327771063F272E2929682529460 wrote: I don't agree with Glasnow making or breaking the 2017 season either. He is a special talent, but he isn't as polished as Cole or Taillon when they came up. He eventually can be better than them, but he still has some learning and needs to get more polished.
A healthy Cole can be very good. We have seen this before. I don't get into the labeling of starters as much as others. Its nice to have that "ace" but every team in baseball would take Cole in their rotation. Every team.
I don't think it is fans putting the pressure on Glasnow but it is saying if the Bucs don't have strong starting pitching then the season is not going to be successful. the way it lines up now, the Bucs are counting on Kuhl and Glasnow (or someone else from the list) to be at least average major league starters in 2017.
If anything, the team is putting pressure on these guys.
A healthy Cole can be very good. We have seen this before. I don't get into the labeling of starters as much as others. Its nice to have that "ace" but every team in baseball would take Cole in their rotation. Every team.
I don't think it is fans putting the pressure on Glasnow but it is saying if the Bucs don't have strong starting pitching then the season is not going to be successful. the way it lines up now, the Bucs are counting on Kuhl and Glasnow (or someone else from the list) to be at least average major league starters in 2017.
If anything, the team is putting pressure on these guys.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Starting Pitching Depth
With the depth, they can find some guys to at least be average. If Hutchison isn't pitching well, try Williams, Brault or Duncan.
These guys can also be good enough to skip some starts for extra rest too. Huntington has been resting players lately with the new study about the Golden State Warriors.
These guys can also be good enough to skip some starts for extra rest too. Huntington has been resting players lately with the new study about the Golden State Warriors.
-
Bobster21
Starting Pitching Depth
6C6E747264010 wrote: Ten potential pitchers at AAA for two slots seems to make for a top-heavy minor league system. I could see them trading one or more of those guys, if they don't see a near-term future for them as starters or relievers at the MLB level for the Pirates.
Yes but those would be very minor trades if we're dealing guys we think have no near-term future at the MLB level.
Yes but those would be very minor trades if we're dealing guys we think have no near-term future at the MLB level.
-
SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Starting Pitching Depth
We need one more guy for the rotation. I like this "depth" a lot more as 6th/7th starters than I like them being on the opening day roster.
Starting Pitching Depth
555E565A5F5E450006714850595E5E1F525E310 wrote: With the depth, they can find some guys to at least be average. If Hutchison isn't pitching well, try Williams, Brault or Duncan.
These guys can also be good enough to skip some starts for extra rest too. Huntington has been resting players lately with the new study about the Golden State Warriors.
I don't think it follows that with depth they can find someone average. And if you have to go through 3 or 4 people that don't reach average before you get to average you have already blown it with 15 or more below average starts.
These guys can also be good enough to skip some starts for extra rest too. Huntington has been resting players lately with the new study about the Golden State Warriors.
I don't think it follows that with depth they can find someone average. And if you have to go through 3 or 4 people that don't reach average before you get to average you have already blown it with 15 or more below average starts.
Starting Pitching Depth
Exactly why any depth strategy as it being put forth is flawed. Depth is there for injuries or underperformance. If you're using your depth, something negative has happened. Either someone is hurt and you immediately use the next man up, or someone has pitched poorly for a decently long stretch and you've dropped games because of it.
It's critical to have. But if depth is used because of underperformance, you're dropping games.
"Oh well if he stinks we will just give so-and-so a try" that's a painful, painful strategy.
We've got 162 and they all count the same. Must finish ahead of STL if you want a playoff spot. Good luck with that without another starter. need 1 more. just a run-of-the-mill starter. THEN you can rely on the depth list for #5 and the inevitable injuries and you're not dropping a bunch of games.
It's critical to have. But if depth is used because of underperformance, you're dropping games.
"Oh well if he stinks we will just give so-and-so a try" that's a painful, painful strategy.
We've got 162 and they all count the same. Must finish ahead of STL if you want a playoff spot. Good luck with that without another starter. need 1 more. just a run-of-the-mill starter. THEN you can rely on the depth list for #5 and the inevitable injuries and you're not dropping a bunch of games.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Starting Pitching Depth
It is still very good to have if someone gets hurt or falters. last year, the big two didn't perform. Any team will be in trouble if that happens.
In my opinion, the Pirates are in a good place because of the depth they have. They have guys who have been to the show and had some success.
I would love another starter too, but I would also hope they are more established than someone like Kuhl.
I think Kuhl will be very solid this year. I am not really worried about him. But if he doesn't perform, plenty of others to step in. I hope that doesn't cost them a lot of games, but if Cole, Taillon, and Nova pitch how they are supposed to it might not be that big of a deal. Don't forget, the Pirates won with Charlie Morton and Jeff Locke.
In my opinion, the Pirates are in a good place because of the depth they have. They have guys who have been to the show and had some success.
I would love another starter too, but I would also hope they are more established than someone like Kuhl.
I think Kuhl will be very solid this year. I am not really worried about him. But if he doesn't perform, plenty of others to step in. I hope that doesn't cost them a lot of games, but if Cole, Taillon, and Nova pitch how they are supposed to it might not be that big of a deal. Don't forget, the Pirates won with Charlie Morton and Jeff Locke.
-
Bobster21
Starting Pitching Depth
7C757D6C62180 wrote: Exactly why any depth strategy as it being put forth is flawed. Depth is there for injuries or underperformance. If you're using your depth, something negative has happened. Either someone is hurt and you immediately use the next man up, or someone has pitched poorly for a decently long stretch and you've dropped games because of it.
It's critical to have. But if depth is used because of underperformance, you're dropping games.
"Oh well if he stinks we will just give so-and-so a try" that's a painful, painful strategy.
We've got 162 and they all count the same. Must finish ahead of STL if you want a playoff spot. Good luck with that without another starter. need 1 more. just a run-of-the-mill starter. THEN you can rely on the depth list for #5 and the inevitable injuries and you're not dropping a bunch of games.
I agree with that. However, Kuhl put up very good AA and AAA numbers and was pretty impressive for a rookie last year. IMHO, he will be better than any reclamation starter they can acquire and deserves a shot as 4 or 5.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... &year=2016
So I think we're only looking for 1 more. We know they want Hutchison to justify the Liriano/Ramirez/McGwire trade so he'll be given every chance to make the rotation in ST. So will Glasnow. If either of them pans out and Kuhl builds upon a good 2016 the rotation should be better then last year and maybe even pretty good. We know this FO is not going to obtain a proven, quality pitcher if he comes with a large salary. But even as it stands, I'm not ready to write off this rotation. I think worst case scenario is that they get another Vogelsong type in ST for #5. But there's a reasonable chance that won't be necessary.
It's critical to have. But if depth is used because of underperformance, you're dropping games.
"Oh well if he stinks we will just give so-and-so a try" that's a painful, painful strategy.
We've got 162 and they all count the same. Must finish ahead of STL if you want a playoff spot. Good luck with that without another starter. need 1 more. just a run-of-the-mill starter. THEN you can rely on the depth list for #5 and the inevitable injuries and you're not dropping a bunch of games.
I agree with that. However, Kuhl put up very good AA and AAA numbers and was pretty impressive for a rookie last year. IMHO, he will be better than any reclamation starter they can acquire and deserves a shot as 4 or 5.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... &year=2016
So I think we're only looking for 1 more. We know they want Hutchison to justify the Liriano/Ramirez/McGwire trade so he'll be given every chance to make the rotation in ST. So will Glasnow. If either of them pans out and Kuhl builds upon a good 2016 the rotation should be better then last year and maybe even pretty good. We know this FO is not going to obtain a proven, quality pitcher if he comes with a large salary. But even as it stands, I'm not ready to write off this rotation. I think worst case scenario is that they get another Vogelsong type in ST for #5. But there's a reasonable chance that won't be necessary.
Starting Pitching Depth
1D303D2C2B3A2D6D6E5F0 wrote: Exactly why any depth strategy as it being put forth is flawed. Depth is there for injuries or underperformance. If you're using your depth, something negative has happened. Either someone is hurt and you immediately use the next man up, or someone has pitched poorly for a decently long stretch and you've dropped games because of it.
It's critical to have. But if depth is used because of underperformance, you're dropping games.
"Oh well if he stinks we will just give so-and-so a try" that's a painful, painful strategy.
We've got 162 and they all count the same. Must finish ahead of STL if you want a playoff spot. Good luck with that without another starter. need 1 more. just a run-of-the-mill starter. THEN you can rely on the depth list for #5 and the inevitable injuries and you're not dropping a bunch of games.
I agree with that. However, Kuhl put up very good AA and AAA numbers and was pretty impressive for a rookie last year. IMHO, he will be better than any reclamation starter they can acquire and deserves a shot as 4 or 5.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... &year=2016
So I think we're only looking for 1 more. We know they want Hutchison to justify the Liriano/Ramirez/McGwire trade so he'll be given every chance to make the rotation in ST. So will Glasnow. If either of them pans out and Kuhl builds upon a good 2016 the rotation should be better then last year and maybe even pretty good. We know this FO is not going to obtain a proven, quality pitcher if he comes with a large salary. But even as it stands, I'm not ready to write off this rotation. I think worst case scenario is that they get another Vogelsong type in ST for #5. But there's a reasonable chance that won't be necessary.
This staff those is extremely vulnerable if Cole, Taillon or Nova get injured or under perform. I would like to have a little more margin for error. I do think Kuhl could be real deal and that he can do better than what Morton or Locke ever did.
Over the long season starting pitching can make or break a team and the Pirates are borderline with their rotation. To contend they need a lot of things to go right.
It's critical to have. But if depth is used because of underperformance, you're dropping games.
"Oh well if he stinks we will just give so-and-so a try" that's a painful, painful strategy.
We've got 162 and they all count the same. Must finish ahead of STL if you want a playoff spot. Good luck with that without another starter. need 1 more. just a run-of-the-mill starter. THEN you can rely on the depth list for #5 and the inevitable injuries and you're not dropping a bunch of games.
I agree with that. However, Kuhl put up very good AA and AAA numbers and was pretty impressive for a rookie last year. IMHO, he will be better than any reclamation starter they can acquire and deserves a shot as 4 or 5.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... &year=2016
So I think we're only looking for 1 more. We know they want Hutchison to justify the Liriano/Ramirez/McGwire trade so he'll be given every chance to make the rotation in ST. So will Glasnow. If either of them pans out and Kuhl builds upon a good 2016 the rotation should be better then last year and maybe even pretty good. We know this FO is not going to obtain a proven, quality pitcher if he comes with a large salary. But even as it stands, I'm not ready to write off this rotation. I think worst case scenario is that they get another Vogelsong type in ST for #5. But there's a reasonable chance that won't be necessary.
This staff those is extremely vulnerable if Cole, Taillon or Nova get injured or under perform. I would like to have a little more margin for error. I do think Kuhl could be real deal and that he can do better than what Morton or Locke ever did.
Over the long season starting pitching can make or break a team and the Pirates are borderline with their rotation. To contend they need a lot of things to go right.