OnlyBucs

dooooomsday!!!!!



is here again!





been here a few times before the past 4 years

06213034312C13273031312C550 wrote: No, the point is that it is April 25th. No team is going to panic at this time. No team is going to start dumping players even though they are in last place on April 25th.



There would be no impact players to trade for at this time. They need to make a trade for an outfielder big time. I said that right away. But who?



Yes, the Pirates have been close to the WS. They made the playoffs three years in a row. The Mets haven't won since 1986 and the Blue Jays haven't won since 1993.   No the Pirates have not come close to making the World Series. Losing two wildcard games at home and losing in the division series in 5 games when you had a 2-1 series lead Is not close to making the World Series I'm sorry it's not. The Mets at least won a pennant in 2015 a few years ago and went to the World Series and the Bluejays have at least been to the ALCS two years in a row and won a few playoff series in the divisional round. The Pirates have done NONE of that in there little 3 year playoff run.




Not close at all? Ha ha...ok.

7E757D7174756E2B2D5A637B7275753479751A0 wrote: No, the point is that it is April 25th. No team is going to panic at this time. No team is going to start dumping players even though they are in last place on April 25th.



There would be no impact players to trade for at this time. They need to make a trade for an outfielder big time. I said that right away. But who?



Yes, the Pirates have been close to the WS. They made the playoffs three years in a row. The Mets haven't won since 1986 and the Blue Jays haven't won since 1993.   No the Pirates have not come close to making the World Series. Losing two wildcard games at home and losing in the division series in 5 games when you had a 2-1 series lead Is not close to making the World Series I'm sorry it's not. The Mets at least won a pennant in 2015 a few years ago and went to the World Series and the Bluejays have at least been to the ALCS two years in a row and won a few playoff series in the divisional round. The Pirates have done NONE of that in there little 3 year playoff run.




Not close at all?  Ha ha...ok. They haven't I don't know what the hell is so funny about it. Have they won a playoff series in the 3 years they made the playoffs?? Have they at least made the NLCS in those 3 years?? That would be getting close in my opinion. Losing two wildcard games at PNC Park and losing in 5 games in the division series doesn't qualify to me of being close to winning a World Series. I think a lot of people on here would agree with me and tell you the same thing.

NM, wrong thread.

0E222A2D2601362030430 wrote: Last night's game, like quite a few other games was brutal to watch.   While I am hoping and praying that much of last night's malaise was attributable to the weather, there were so many unforced errors that the future of this season - as of today - looks really bleak.



While I know the pickings are slim, NH must go get another outfielder, even if it is even a defensive substitute who can be inserted into a game in the late innings to try and preserve a win.  If the team felt comfortable inserting Rodriguez for Jaso and now Jaso for Bell, clearly they should feel comfortable playing someone who can at least judge and maybe catch a fly ball.  And, while it is easy to pick on Osuna, Jaso or Frazier for poor outfield play, none of these folks are really outfielders.  They are playing out of position because there are no other options.



Continuing, I don't know who the Bucs have in the minors at present who are outfielders (too lazy to look and no, not Meadows), but at least someone down there should be able to catch a fly ball.  If so, bring them up and jettison Bastardo, who the manager has walked away from using in a meaningful game, even thought the GM is currently likely keeping him because of salary commitments and hoping that he will improve.  And, if the Bucs don't have someone in the minors who can play outfield, doesn't some other team?



I have a lot of patience for someone like Bell, but my patience with Polanco and Cervelli is wearing quite thin.  I have yet to see any flashes of brilliance from Polanco in the OF, and his bat is not as strong as advertised, particularly in the #4 spot.  While Kuhl was getting hit hard, the game could have been different if Cervelli had held onto the ball and in turn wiped two runs off the scoreboard and shortened some innings.  The passed ball that let folks advance also wasn't good. 



At present, I only have confidence in the defense of three players - Harrison when he is at 2nd (despite the blunder against the Yankees) and Mercer and Freese, neither of whom is spectacular, but both of whom generally make the play.   The play of all of the outfielders is so bad that it is nearly unwatchable (McCutchen and Polanco on the fly ball last week was atrocious). 



So - What would I do if I was a GM. 



1)  I go get an outfielder who can play good defense, preferably someone who can play any outfield position.  I would prefer someone who can play LF at PNC so Polanco and his bad glove but decent arm can move back to RF.  Cutch in CF is bad, but his poor defense would be less of a problem with better OF play in the corners.



2)  I know it may hurt, but release Bastardo.  I would not be willing to pay the price of trading minor league depth along with Bastardo to try and save a million or so.



3)  The team needs more the reserve infielders - Gosselin, Frazier and Hanson on the bench, and at the same time carrying a very weak hitting catcher in Stewart.  One of the three reserve infielders needs to go.  If Hurdle's assessment of Hanson is accurate, move him for a middling talent outfielder from some other team.  If Hanson has a future, let Gosselin, who isn't really a shortstop walk, or try to trade him for the middling reserve outfielder.



The above three moves are mere band-aids to try and provide some immediate help on defense and by cutting the weakest arm in the pen. 



If, by the end of May the team is still floundering, I am shopping players who could yield a return for 2018 and beyond.  Players The players I shop include:



1)  McCutchen - He is not a CF'er and his overall skills, particularly speed, seems to be rapidly diminishing. 



2)  Freese - He is playing well for the Pirates, but he could bring back some valuable talent because of his reasonable salary, his versatility and his performance (to date).  I believe moving him would hurt the team and performance on the field, but I don't believe the Pirates have a lot of talent that would attract a return.



3)  Watson - I believe he now throws too many pitches per appearance to be a reliable pitcher for a whole season.  Someone else may like him as a late inning reliever rather than a closer.  Also, he will be too expensive next year.



4)  I would move either or both Jaso or Harrison if anyone would bite, simply to move some salary.   I doubt anyone bites on either, unless some other team has a glaring injury.



5)  Hudson.  If he is pitching well, and the season appears lost, see what he could yield in return.



6)  LeBlanc.  If his recent resurgence continues, shop him for some talent,  Lefty relievers have value.  Remember, Zack Duke was still pitching at this time last year.



7)  Mercer.  I don't know what the Pirates would do without him, and I doubt he would bring much in return, but he could be an injury replacement for a team seeking a SS.  I doubt that he is back with the Bucs next year.



About the only folks that I think are off-limits are the starting pitchers, which could be a real strength in 2018, and Bell and perhaps Polanco (mostly because of the Marte situation) and in the pen Rivero.



Feeling very pessimistic after last night. 


Good post.  I agree in general with all your comments. 



Looking back on the past couple years, the thing that jumps out at me is how badly we overvalued our outfield.  We've held on to pieces who, frankly, have not lived up to expectations in the field or at the plate and we held on while we had decent prospects for the OF. 



Should have traded Marte, moved Bell to RF and signed Chris Carter for $3M to play 1st base (Carter, even as bad as he's been would be a better solution, with Bell in the OF, then any other 1st base we've had in 20 years).  He would give us badly needed power (Carter would very possibly be better if he was everyday player and out of NY) PLUS all the pieces back in the Marte trade (a young catcher, SS, pitcher for example).



We're now stuck with Marte and his "on and off" approach to the game.  So now I'd be in favor of moving Polanco along with Cutch.  Move Bell to RF, Meadows to left.  That would give legit power to the corners.  The gamble I'd take is moving Hanson to CF and see if he can bat .250 and run the bases like Hamilton, at least until Marte is back.  I'd work a trade with the Yankees for Carter (they'll probably eat a good chuck of his salary).



With the trade of Polanco and Cutch I'd be looking for a new SS, 3rd base, catcher and/or starting pitching prospects at the AAA level. The Pirates may not compete this year, but watch the fans get enthusiastic now and the Pirates kick some rear-end in 2018-2020. As it is, we're going nowhere.

RF - Bell

CF - Marte hoping that Hanson could be a Billy Hamilton (if so, then trade Marte as well, but probably Marte is CF)

LF - Meadows

1st -Carter

2nd -Harrison (no trade partners, and he'll have less pressure on him in this lineup)

3rd - Kang (or new player from a trade)

SS - Mercer (or new player from a trade)

C - I like Cervelli to work with the young staff.



PLUS several new legit prospects in AAA.



This team, with the rotation, might just push the Cubs out of the way.

032435313429162235343429500 wrote:




Not close at all?  Ha ha...ok. They haven't I don't know what the hell is so funny about it. Have they won a playoff series in the 3 years they made the playoffs?? Have they at least made the NLCS in those 3 years?? That would be getting close in my opinion. Losing two wildcard games at PNC Park and losing in 5 games in the division series doesn't qualify to me of being close to winning a World Series. I think a lot of people on here would agree with me and tell you the same thing.




Do you know how many teams are in the league? Do you know how many of them make the playoffs. Do you know how many Wild Card teams have made the World Series? Do you know how many Wild Card teams won the World Series?



You have to make the playoffs to even have a chance to win it all. You just have to. It is impossible not to. All those teams that make the playoffs are just as close as each other and a lot (like a ton) closer than the teams that don't make the playoffs.



I would rather go to the playoffs and lose than not go at all. And that goes for all my favorite teams. Who knows what will happen come playoff time? MLB over the years have proven once you get in the playoffs, you have a very good chance of making it to the World Series. This is not just my opinion, but also a fact.

606B636F6A6B703533447D656C6B6B2A676B040 wrote:




Not close at all?  Ha ha...ok. They haven't I don't know what the hell is so funny about it. Have they won a playoff series in the 3 years they made the playoffs?? Have they at least made the NLCS in those 3 years?? That would be getting close in my opinion. Losing two wildcard games at PNC Park and losing in 5 games in the division series doesn't qualify to me of being close to winning a World Series. I think a lot of people on here would agree with me and tell you the same thing.




Do you know how many teams are in the league?  Do you know how many of them make the playoffs.  Do you know how many Wild Card teams have made the World Series?  Do you know how many Wild Card teams won the World Series?



You have to make the playoffs to even have a chance to win it all.  You just have to.  It is impossible not to.  All those teams that make the playoffs are just as close as each other and a lot (like a ton) closer than the teams that don't make the playoffs.



I would rather go to the playoffs and lose than not go at all.  And that goes for all my favorite teams.  Who knows what will happen come playoff time?  MLB over the years have proven once you get in the playoffs, you have a very good chance of making it to the World Series.  This is not just my opinion, but also a fact.

The Pirates didn't make it though that is my point. They haven't even won a playoff series since 1979. They are one of 3 current teams in Major League Baseball that have not made the World Series and won a pennant since 1979 which is 38 years ago. You can keep being satisfied though with making the playoffs and losing right away and never trying to improve to take the next step which the Pirates management clearly does not want to do. Getting to the playoffs is a great accomplishment no doubt but I'm not satisfied with just getting there I want the Pirates to win when tutu get there and in the 3 years they did get there they didn't win anything of significance. No playoff series wins, no pennant wins, and no World Series wins. Those are the 3 things that matter most when you get in the playoffs in order to take the next steps to go to the World Series and the Pirates have done NONE of this.

Yes, last year they did not make it. But they made is three years in a row prior to last year.



You said they weren't close. That's what you said. I am just pointing out how close they were.



I never said I was satisfied with the results. But I do want to make the playoffs as much as possible to get closer to winning a World Series.



Good point about 1979 and pennants. But you can't really believe the Ownership doesn't want to win? If they didn't want to or care, they would never give any player a contract extension or pay them more than league minimum. Like, why pay Cervelli and not play Diaz? Why pay Harrison over Hanson? Why give Cole $3.75 million and not $530K? Trust me, they care more than YOU.

29222A262322397C7A0D342C252222632E224D0 wrote: Yes, last year they did not make it.  But they made is three years in a row prior to last year. 



You said they weren't close.  That's what you said.  I am just pointing out how close they were. 



I never said I was satisfied with the results.  But I do want to make the playoffs as much as possible to get closer to winning a World Series.



Good point about 1979 and pennants.  But you can't really believe the Ownership doesn't want to win?  If they didn't want to or care, they would never give any player a contract extension or pay them more than league minimum.  Like, why pay Cervelli and not play Diaz?  Why pay Harrison over Hanson? Why give Cole $3.75 million and not $530K?  Trust me, they care more than YOU. They care they just don't care enough to take the necessary steps to win a championship because they have money available to spend and get this payroll up around 130 million and get some better players and they won't do it. They lie to the fans saying they will spend the money when the team is ready to compete and they still are in the bottom half of the league in payroll.