Bad influence
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Bad influence
Here's an interesting pole for someone who might want to test the boards thoughts - by a fluke in the MLB collective bargaining agreement, you are GM for a minute one day next week. You only have time to fire one person. Who do you get rid of? NH? Clint? Joe Block?
-
rucker59@gmail.com
Bad influence
494B515741240 wrote: Here's an interesting pole for someone who might want to test the boards thoughts - by a fluke in the MLB collective bargaining agreement, you are GM for a minute one day next week. You only have time to fire one person. Who do you get rid of? NH? Clint? Joe Block?
Robbie. In a second. Everyone else is a distant second.
Robbie. In a second. Everyone else is a distant second.
Bad influence
75776D6B7D180 wrote: Here's an interesting pole for someone who might want to test the boards thoughts - by a fluke in the MLB collective bargaining agreement, you are GM for a minute one day next week. You only have time to fire one person. Who do you get rid of? NH? Clint? Joe Block?
Nutting.
Nutting.
-
JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Bad influence
4A6D6645080 wrote: Here's an interesting pole for someone who might want to test the boards thoughts - by a fluke in the MLB collective bargaining agreement, you are GM for a minute one day next week. You only have time to fire one person. Who do you get rid of? NH? Clint? Joe Block?
Nutting.
Agreed....Nutting
Nutting.
Agreed....Nutting
-
JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Bad influence
143934252233246467560 wrote: I also concur with Thessy --- Bring in a new manager.
The owner has let this club down, NH has let this club down and so has the guy in the clubhouse. At least on the surface, there appears to be too much of a nonchalant, I don't care attitude.
Hurdle contract is cheap, about $5 mil for the next 3 years. I have no ideas regarding who to bring in, but this team appears to be in desperate need of new direction.
They need a fiery manager who clearly hates losing and conveys that feeling to the players so that they will also hate losing. Hurdle just doesn't seem to care. He says "we'll come back tomorrow" and he often fields a lineup clearly inferior to what he could have fielded. There's no way that goes unnoticed by the players. Guys like Jim Leyland, Tony LaRussa or Earl Weaver detested losing and it rubbed off on their players. Hurdle obviously prefers winning over losing but it's not always his top priority and it doesn't seem to bother him much anyway. So they have players who don't hustle or don't bother to learn to play smart baseball. They all want to win but they don't put themselves out for a manager who often barely gives them a chance.
The fiery manager won’t work in Today’s game. You may see results the first year; but the manager will flame out and soon the players will just turn a deaf ear to him. The players are basically set for life. They aren’t fighting to put food on the table. Hurdle has most of the attributes that you want. He played the game which gives him credibility among the players. Has had the high and low life experiences which the players can also learn from. He is an exceptional motivational speaker and is an excellent example to the community.
He has in my opinion 2 flaws and one of those is an organizational flaw. First flaw that he has total control over is making a player accountable for lack of hustle or mental mistakes. It took too long to sit Marte. Should have been done earlier and maybe repeatedly.
Secondly, we have all talked about the Sunday lineup issue.
Hurdle is not that different from Leyland in that they both used their full bench and rested players regularly. The issue we have is that Hurdle will do it when we are in must win situations.
Also I believe that this is also partly organizationally driven.
The team relies too much on analytics.
The owner has let this club down, NH has let this club down and so has the guy in the clubhouse. At least on the surface, there appears to be too much of a nonchalant, I don't care attitude.
Hurdle contract is cheap, about $5 mil for the next 3 years. I have no ideas regarding who to bring in, but this team appears to be in desperate need of new direction.
They need a fiery manager who clearly hates losing and conveys that feeling to the players so that they will also hate losing. Hurdle just doesn't seem to care. He says "we'll come back tomorrow" and he often fields a lineup clearly inferior to what he could have fielded. There's no way that goes unnoticed by the players. Guys like Jim Leyland, Tony LaRussa or Earl Weaver detested losing and it rubbed off on their players. Hurdle obviously prefers winning over losing but it's not always his top priority and it doesn't seem to bother him much anyway. So they have players who don't hustle or don't bother to learn to play smart baseball. They all want to win but they don't put themselves out for a manager who often barely gives them a chance.
The fiery manager won’t work in Today’s game. You may see results the first year; but the manager will flame out and soon the players will just turn a deaf ear to him. The players are basically set for life. They aren’t fighting to put food on the table. Hurdle has most of the attributes that you want. He played the game which gives him credibility among the players. Has had the high and low life experiences which the players can also learn from. He is an exceptional motivational speaker and is an excellent example to the community.
He has in my opinion 2 flaws and one of those is an organizational flaw. First flaw that he has total control over is making a player accountable for lack of hustle or mental mistakes. It took too long to sit Marte. Should have been done earlier and maybe repeatedly.
Secondly, we have all talked about the Sunday lineup issue.
Hurdle is not that different from Leyland in that they both used their full bench and rested players regularly. The issue we have is that Hurdle will do it when we are in must win situations.
Also I believe that this is also partly organizationally driven.
The team relies too much on analytics.
-
Bobster21
Bad influence
2B0E0D0D18330E060413610 wrote: I also concur with Thessy --- Bring in a new manager.
The owner has let this club down, NH has let this club down and so has the guy in the clubhouse. At least on the surface, there appears to be too much of a nonchalant, I don't care attitude.
Hurdle contract is cheap, about $5 mil for the next 3 years. I have no ideas regarding who to bring in, but this team appears to be in desperate need of new direction.
They need a fiery manager who clearly hates losing and conveys that feeling to the players so that they will also hate losing. Hurdle just doesn't seem to care. He says "we'll come back tomorrow" and he often fields a lineup clearly inferior to what he could have fielded. There's no way that goes unnoticed by the players. Guys like Jim Leyland, Tony LaRussa or Earl Weaver detested losing and it rubbed off on their players. Hurdle obviously prefers winning over losing but it's not always his top priority and it doesn't seem to bother him much anyway. So they have players who don't hustle or don't bother to learn to play smart baseball. They all want to win but they don't put themselves out for a manager who often barely gives them a chance.
The fiery manager won’t work in Today’s game. You may see results the first year; but the manager will flame out and soon the players will just turn a deaf ear to him. The players are basically set for life. They aren’t fighting to put food on the table. Hurdle has most of the attributes that you want. He played the game which gives him credibility among the players. Has had the high and low life experiences which the players can also learn from. He is an exceptional motivational speaker and is an excellent example to the community.
He has in my opinion 2 flaws and one of those is an organizational flaw. First flaw that he has total control over is making a player accountable for lack of hustle or mental mistakes. It took too long to sit Marte. Should have been done earlier and maybe repeatedly.
Secondly, we have all talked about the Sunday lineup issue.
Hurdle is not that different from Leyland in that they both used their full bench and rested players regularly. The issue we have is that Hurdle will do it when we are in must win situations.
Also I believe that this is also partly organizationally driven.
The team relies too much on analytics.
I've often heard the argument that Leyland did the same as Hurdle. But there's a HUGE difference. Leyland had a stronger starting lineup and a stronger bench. Leyland could sit a few starters and the other starters plus the strong bench replacements still provided a strong lineup. Hurdle sits key players and substitutes marginal bench players and creates weak lineups that can't win.
The owner has let this club down, NH has let this club down and so has the guy in the clubhouse. At least on the surface, there appears to be too much of a nonchalant, I don't care attitude.
Hurdle contract is cheap, about $5 mil for the next 3 years. I have no ideas regarding who to bring in, but this team appears to be in desperate need of new direction.
They need a fiery manager who clearly hates losing and conveys that feeling to the players so that they will also hate losing. Hurdle just doesn't seem to care. He says "we'll come back tomorrow" and he often fields a lineup clearly inferior to what he could have fielded. There's no way that goes unnoticed by the players. Guys like Jim Leyland, Tony LaRussa or Earl Weaver detested losing and it rubbed off on their players. Hurdle obviously prefers winning over losing but it's not always his top priority and it doesn't seem to bother him much anyway. So they have players who don't hustle or don't bother to learn to play smart baseball. They all want to win but they don't put themselves out for a manager who often barely gives them a chance.
The fiery manager won’t work in Today’s game. You may see results the first year; but the manager will flame out and soon the players will just turn a deaf ear to him. The players are basically set for life. They aren’t fighting to put food on the table. Hurdle has most of the attributes that you want. He played the game which gives him credibility among the players. Has had the high and low life experiences which the players can also learn from. He is an exceptional motivational speaker and is an excellent example to the community.
He has in my opinion 2 flaws and one of those is an organizational flaw. First flaw that he has total control over is making a player accountable for lack of hustle or mental mistakes. It took too long to sit Marte. Should have been done earlier and maybe repeatedly.
Secondly, we have all talked about the Sunday lineup issue.
Hurdle is not that different from Leyland in that they both used their full bench and rested players regularly. The issue we have is that Hurdle will do it when we are in must win situations.
Also I believe that this is also partly organizationally driven.
The team relies too much on analytics.
I've often heard the argument that Leyland did the same as Hurdle. But there's a HUGE difference. Leyland had a stronger starting lineup and a stronger bench. Leyland could sit a few starters and the other starters plus the strong bench replacements still provided a strong lineup. Hurdle sits key players and substitutes marginal bench players and creates weak lineups that can't win.
-
JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Bad influence
466B66777061763635040 wrote: I also concur with Thessy --- Bring in a new manager.
The owner has let this club down, NH has let this club down and so has the guy in the clubhouse. At least on the surface, there appears to be too much of a nonchalant, I don't care attitude.
Hurdle contract is cheap, about $5 mil for the next 3 years. I have no ideas regarding who to bring in, but this team appears to be in desperate need of new direction.
They need a fiery manager who clearly hates losing and conveys that feeling to the players so that they will also hate losing. Hurdle just doesn't seem to care. He says "we'll come back tomorrow" and he often fields a lineup clearly inferior to what he could have fielded. There's no way that goes unnoticed by the players. Guys like Jim Leyland, Tony LaRussa or Earl Weaver detested losing and it rubbed off on their players. Hurdle obviously prefers winning over losing but it's not always his top priority and it doesn't seem to bother him much anyway. So they have players who don't hustle or don't bother to learn to play smart baseball. They all want to win but they don't put themselves out for a manager who often barely gives them a chance.
The fiery manager won’t work in Today’s game. You may see results the first year; but the manager will flame out and soon the players will just turn a deaf ear to him. The players are basically set for life. They aren’t fighting to put food on the table. Hurdle has most of the attributes that you want. He played the game which gives him credibility among the players. Has had the high and low life experiences which the players can also learn from. He is an exceptional motivational speaker and is an excellent example to the community.
He has in my opinion 2 flaws and one of those is an organizational flaw. First flaw that he has total control over is making a player accountable for lack of hustle or mental mistakes. It took too long to sit Marte. Should have been done earlier and maybe repeatedly.
Secondly, we have all talked about the Sunday lineup issue.
Hurdle is not that different from Leyland in that they both used their full bench and rested players regularly. The issue we have is that Hurdle will do it when we are in must win situations.
Also I believe that this is also partly organizationally driven.
The team relies too much on analytics.
I've often heard the argument that Leyland did the same as Hurdle. But there's a HUGE difference. Leyland had a stronger starting lineup and a stronger bench. Leyland could sit a few starters and the other starters plus the strong bench replacements still provided a strong lineup. Hurdle sits key players and substitutes marginal bench players and creates weak lineups that can't win.
Is that a flaw of Hurdle or of NH for not providing a stronger bench. Of course Leyland could rest players and still win in 1990-1992. No one complained when Hurdle did the same thing in 2013-2015. They both rested players regularly and used the whole bench. Problem is we have a few roster spots that are filled with AAAA and AAA talent. No different than Leyland in 1993 and beyond.
The owner has let this club down, NH has let this club down and so has the guy in the clubhouse. At least on the surface, there appears to be too much of a nonchalant, I don't care attitude.
Hurdle contract is cheap, about $5 mil for the next 3 years. I have no ideas regarding who to bring in, but this team appears to be in desperate need of new direction.
They need a fiery manager who clearly hates losing and conveys that feeling to the players so that they will also hate losing. Hurdle just doesn't seem to care. He says "we'll come back tomorrow" and he often fields a lineup clearly inferior to what he could have fielded. There's no way that goes unnoticed by the players. Guys like Jim Leyland, Tony LaRussa or Earl Weaver detested losing and it rubbed off on their players. Hurdle obviously prefers winning over losing but it's not always his top priority and it doesn't seem to bother him much anyway. So they have players who don't hustle or don't bother to learn to play smart baseball. They all want to win but they don't put themselves out for a manager who often barely gives them a chance.
The fiery manager won’t work in Today’s game. You may see results the first year; but the manager will flame out and soon the players will just turn a deaf ear to him. The players are basically set for life. They aren’t fighting to put food on the table. Hurdle has most of the attributes that you want. He played the game which gives him credibility among the players. Has had the high and low life experiences which the players can also learn from. He is an exceptional motivational speaker and is an excellent example to the community.
He has in my opinion 2 flaws and one of those is an organizational flaw. First flaw that he has total control over is making a player accountable for lack of hustle or mental mistakes. It took too long to sit Marte. Should have been done earlier and maybe repeatedly.
Secondly, we have all talked about the Sunday lineup issue.
Hurdle is not that different from Leyland in that they both used their full bench and rested players regularly. The issue we have is that Hurdle will do it when we are in must win situations.
Also I believe that this is also partly organizationally driven.
The team relies too much on analytics.
I've often heard the argument that Leyland did the same as Hurdle. But there's a HUGE difference. Leyland had a stronger starting lineup and a stronger bench. Leyland could sit a few starters and the other starters plus the strong bench replacements still provided a strong lineup. Hurdle sits key players and substitutes marginal bench players and creates weak lineups that can't win.
Is that a flaw of Hurdle or of NH for not providing a stronger bench. Of course Leyland could rest players and still win in 1990-1992. No one complained when Hurdle did the same thing in 2013-2015. They both rested players regularly and used the whole bench. Problem is we have a few roster spots that are filled with AAAA and AAA talent. No different than Leyland in 1993 and beyond.
Bad influence
1B363B2A2D3C2B6B68590 wrote: I also concur with Thessy --- Bring in a new manager.
The owner has let this club down, NH has let this club down and so has the guy in the clubhouse. At least on the surface, there appears to be too much of a nonchalant, I don't care attitude.
Hurdle contract is cheap, about $5 mil for the next 3 years. I have no ideas regarding who to bring in, but this team appears to be in desperate need of new direction.
They need a fiery manager who clearly hates losing and conveys that feeling to the players so that they will also hate losing. Hurdle just doesn't seem to care. He says "we'll come back tomorrow" and he often fields a lineup clearly inferior to what he could have fielded. There's no way that goes unnoticed by the players. Guys like Jim Leyland, Tony LaRussa or Earl Weaver detested losing and it rubbed off on their players. Hurdle obviously prefers winning over losing but it's not always his top priority and it doesn't seem to bother him much anyway. So they have players who don't hustle or don't bother to learn to play smart baseball. They all want to win but they don't put themselves out for a manager who often barely gives them a chance.
So Lloyd McClendon? Got it.
The owner has let this club down, NH has let this club down and so has the guy in the clubhouse. At least on the surface, there appears to be too much of a nonchalant, I don't care attitude.
Hurdle contract is cheap, about $5 mil for the next 3 years. I have no ideas regarding who to bring in, but this team appears to be in desperate need of new direction.
They need a fiery manager who clearly hates losing and conveys that feeling to the players so that they will also hate losing. Hurdle just doesn't seem to care. He says "we'll come back tomorrow" and he often fields a lineup clearly inferior to what he could have fielded. There's no way that goes unnoticed by the players. Guys like Jim Leyland, Tony LaRussa or Earl Weaver detested losing and it rubbed off on their players. Hurdle obviously prefers winning over losing but it's not always his top priority and it doesn't seem to bother him much anyway. So they have players who don't hustle or don't bother to learn to play smart baseball. They all want to win but they don't put themselves out for a manager who often barely gives them a chance.
So Lloyd McClendon? Got it.
Bad influence
3D3F252335500 wrote: Here's an interesting pole for someone who might want to test the boards thoughts - by a fluke in the MLB collective bargaining agreement, you are GM for a minute one day next week. You only have time to fire one person. Who do you get rid of? NH? Clint? Joe Block?
Nutting.
Nutting.
-
Bobster21
Bad influence
1A3F3C3C29023F373522500 wrote: I also concur with Thessy --- Bring in a new manager.
The owner has let this club down, NH has let this club down and so has the guy in the clubhouse. At least on the surface, there appears to be too much of a nonchalant, I don't care attitude.
Hurdle contract is cheap, about $5 mil for the next 3 years. I have no ideas regarding who to bring in, but this team appears to be in desperate need of new direction.
They need a fiery manager who clearly hates losing and conveys that feeling to the players so that they will also hate losing. Hurdle just doesn't seem to care. He says "we'll come back tomorrow" and he often fields a lineup clearly inferior to what he could have fielded. There's no way that goes unnoticed by the players. Guys like Jim Leyland, Tony LaRussa or Earl Weaver detested losing and it rubbed off on their players. Hurdle obviously prefers winning over losing but it's not always his top priority and it doesn't seem to bother him much anyway. So they have players who don't hustle or don't bother to learn to play smart baseball. They all want to win but they don't put themselves out for a manager who often barely gives them a chance.
The fiery manager won’t work in Today’s game. You may see results the first year; but the manager will flame out and soon the players will just turn a deaf ear to him. The players are basically set for life. They aren’t fighting to put food on the table. Hurdle has most of the attributes that you want. He played the game which gives him credibility among the players. Has had the high and low life experiences which the players can also learn from. He is an exceptional motivational speaker and is an excellent example to the community.
He has in my opinion 2 flaws and one of those is an organizational flaw. First flaw that he has total control over is making a player accountable for lack of hustle or mental mistakes. It took too long to sit Marte. Should have been done earlier and maybe repeatedly.
Secondly, we have all talked about the Sunday lineup issue.
Hurdle is not that different from Leyland in that they both used their full bench and rested players regularly. The issue we have is that Hurdle will do it when we are in must win situations.
Also I believe that this is also partly organizationally driven.
The team relies too much on analytics.
I've often heard the argument that Leyland did the same as Hurdle. But there's a HUGE difference. Leyland had a stronger starting lineup and a stronger bench. Leyland could sit a few starters and the other starters plus the strong bench replacements still provided a strong lineup. Hurdle sits key players and substitutes marginal bench players and creates weak lineups that can't win.
Is that a flaw of Hurdle or of NH for not providing a stronger bench. Of course Leyland could rest players and still win in 1990-1992. No one complained when Hurdle did the same thing in 2013-2015. They both rested players regularly and used the whole bench. Problem is we have a few roster spots that are filled with AAAA and AAA talent. No different than Leyland in 1993 and beyond.
But you have to (or should) manage according to your roster. This is why we often think Hurdle simply doesn't care if he wins or not. You don't have to give scheduled days off before or after team off days if it requires you to field a non-competitive lineup. Leyland did it because he had a strong enough roster to make it work. Hurdle does it despite the obvious disadvantage to his team because he seems to prioritize rest ahead of winning. A good manager can't just set a formula and stick to it regardless of how it effects his team to win. But that's what Hurdle does. He manages as if he has a very strong roster and his moves won't matter. But the team is not talented enough to overcome many of his moves.
The owner has let this club down, NH has let this club down and so has the guy in the clubhouse. At least on the surface, there appears to be too much of a nonchalant, I don't care attitude.
Hurdle contract is cheap, about $5 mil for the next 3 years. I have no ideas regarding who to bring in, but this team appears to be in desperate need of new direction.
They need a fiery manager who clearly hates losing and conveys that feeling to the players so that they will also hate losing. Hurdle just doesn't seem to care. He says "we'll come back tomorrow" and he often fields a lineup clearly inferior to what he could have fielded. There's no way that goes unnoticed by the players. Guys like Jim Leyland, Tony LaRussa or Earl Weaver detested losing and it rubbed off on their players. Hurdle obviously prefers winning over losing but it's not always his top priority and it doesn't seem to bother him much anyway. So they have players who don't hustle or don't bother to learn to play smart baseball. They all want to win but they don't put themselves out for a manager who often barely gives them a chance.
The fiery manager won’t work in Today’s game. You may see results the first year; but the manager will flame out and soon the players will just turn a deaf ear to him. The players are basically set for life. They aren’t fighting to put food on the table. Hurdle has most of the attributes that you want. He played the game which gives him credibility among the players. Has had the high and low life experiences which the players can also learn from. He is an exceptional motivational speaker and is an excellent example to the community.
He has in my opinion 2 flaws and one of those is an organizational flaw. First flaw that he has total control over is making a player accountable for lack of hustle or mental mistakes. It took too long to sit Marte. Should have been done earlier and maybe repeatedly.
Secondly, we have all talked about the Sunday lineup issue.
Hurdle is not that different from Leyland in that they both used their full bench and rested players regularly. The issue we have is that Hurdle will do it when we are in must win situations.
Also I believe that this is also partly organizationally driven.
The team relies too much on analytics.
I've often heard the argument that Leyland did the same as Hurdle. But there's a HUGE difference. Leyland had a stronger starting lineup and a stronger bench. Leyland could sit a few starters and the other starters plus the strong bench replacements still provided a strong lineup. Hurdle sits key players and substitutes marginal bench players and creates weak lineups that can't win.
Is that a flaw of Hurdle or of NH for not providing a stronger bench. Of course Leyland could rest players and still win in 1990-1992. No one complained when Hurdle did the same thing in 2013-2015. They both rested players regularly and used the whole bench. Problem is we have a few roster spots that are filled with AAAA and AAA talent. No different than Leyland in 1993 and beyond.
But you have to (or should) manage according to your roster. This is why we often think Hurdle simply doesn't care if he wins or not. You don't have to give scheduled days off before or after team off days if it requires you to field a non-competitive lineup. Leyland did it because he had a strong enough roster to make it work. Hurdle does it despite the obvious disadvantage to his team because he seems to prioritize rest ahead of winning. A good manager can't just set a formula and stick to it regardless of how it effects his team to win. But that's what Hurdle does. He manages as if he has a very strong roster and his moves won't matter. But the team is not talented enough to overcome many of his moves.